It's funny that the old MINI's were the most wonderful toy in the world, and now that the 2nd gen is out their a piece of crap, or is it that the new one's are a piece of crap because the 1st gen was so wonderful. I also am impressed with the "test drivers" that, by the seat of their pants, can tell a difference in 0 - 60 mph of only .2 to .3 of a second. I wonder why Motor Trend, Car and Driver, and Road and Track aren't beating a path to your door with job offers. Why is it "mine can only be good if yours is bad?"

 

Because you have to either keep up with the jones or laugh about them behind their back to make yourself feel good.

The American way...

 

People just want to feel more secure about there purchase so they have to make comments about something that has the chance of threatening that feeling.

Likewise for R56 owners who diss R53/50 (Though its less common).

I don't care.. I wanted a 06, but held off for an 07 because of a few features that I personally would have enjoyed. If others will "banish" me from Club events or so forth then so be it, they just aren't being very "MINI". Though my club Metroplex MINI (DFW) has been awesome and is looking forward to seeing my car.

I could care less what others on a board think

 

Its more sad than funny ...they are both such great cars and far more similar than different. I just don't understand all the fuss. Then again, I am new here and missed all of the previous bickering.

dean.

 

Yes they are both great cars, and neither makes the other less great.

 

Also, I think, people tend to speak more strongly in forums like this. "I don't care for X" becomes "X sucks". Forming and defending opinions on the rails is part of life on the net.

It's amplified on topic-specific boards, but trust me, I've been doing this since the Usenet heyday and FIDOnet before that, and there's a tendency for all to swing towards extreme opinions.

 

I totally agree. Cant we all just get along?

 

What's even funnier is that yet another thread has been created to try to further perpetuate the discord among the 2 generations of owners. I have seen the banter take a much more civil turn (overall) as of late but all a thread like this does is rile everybody up once again

my 2¢

 

The tendency for the owners of the older car to hang onto what they own and "want" to bash the next generation car is nothing new in the car world and not unique to MINI.

In some cases its monetary. Everyone can't go running out to buy the newest, biggest, brightest, fastest, etc. In other cases it is a bit of old world snobbery in that sequels are rarely as "good" as the original movie (which, of course, is not true).

To this day, Porsche purists will tell you any car that is not air-cooled is not a REAL Porsche or any Ferrari not a V12 is not a REAL Ferrari.

Its just human nature. No biggie.

 

 

I don't Dis or hate the people who are Buying 07's, I just think the 07's are ugly and there for not for me.

 

Yep - I think it's human nature that no matter how small of a group you belong to, there's always the urge to further segregate yourselves within the group.

If you check out rec.motorcycles on Usenet, you see it all the time. First, there's motorcyclists versus car drivers, then among motorcyclists, there's the "Harley-Davidson versus import" bashing. Even among Harley owners, there's infighting between the posters that have Sportsters and the posters that have "Big Twins". And among the Sportster owners, there's often bickering between the 883 and the 1200 enthusiasts.

Like the Arabic proverb says - "Me and my brother against my cousin; me and my cousin against a stranger."

 

Wow.

I find them so similar that if I thought one were ugly I'd think they were both ugly.

I sit firmly in the camp that thinks they both look great.

dean.

 

To be honest.. I just want a damn MINI

 

Agreed.

Opinions are like, well you know... so lets not go out of our way to be one of those.

It's one thing to gash on the cars ... it's another to gash on other forum contributors 'cause thier gashing on your car .

 

I love both versions of the car. I could not believe the amount of dumping on the new design going on when I arrived here on the messageboards. Very discouraging. I know there really are only a handful of extremists, but thats all it takes to drive away new comers.

 

Thats very interesting

But the human nature side, I believe, is even a deeper problem for "enthusiasts".

Right now you got many, many "modded" Gen 1 cars. People have sunk, literally, 10s of thousands of dollars ... maybe half the price of the original car ... into making it quicker.

Suddenly, the rug has been pulled out from underneath them. All the attention goes to the "current" car. As time goes by, your going to see more and more vendors paying R&D time into the 2nd gen cars and less in the 1st gen. This further alienates the first gen owners as they are no long the top dogs. Once the R56 starts to produce numbers CLEARLY better than the older generation, the current owners will feel more vulnerable ... especially when they find they can't get the mod money back out of their cars.

Eventually, in a few years, there will be more R56s on the road than first gen MINIs and this will further alienate the first gen owners as they are no longer the majority. Once the NEXT gen comes out, well it isnt going to get any better.

Some ppl have a hard time with change, but change is inevitable. Its just better to embrace the entire lineup and remember you all have the same heritage but technology will alway move foreword.

 

Excellent post chow! Couldn't have said it better.

 

I would guess that Chow has described exactly how some of these R56 critics are feeling. The assertions are absurd though. Nobody puts mods into their car because its a good investment. They do it because they love the car, because they love to tinker, they love to make it faster. Other insecurities - aftermarket focus shifting, latest and greatest cred dissolving - those are real issues. The kind that begets this "hard-core", "purest" posturing that has been on display.

But all this guessing is really fruitless. The fact is that R50/53 owners have an awesome car. No matter how you slice the performance or the features, no matter what the R56 does or doesn't do, no matter what it looks like, the R50/53 created the New Mini resurgence and associated culture. Nothing can make that go away and the car will always be awesome even when its completely out of production.

I wish the critics could just lighten up, give us R56 buyers a patronizing pat on the head and send us on our way. Gabe over at Motoring File, and Dave here at NAM have done a great job of reviewing the new cars for what they are, good and bad, home runs and compromises. Is there really anybody here that can't settle for that?

 

Talk about a straw man... I'm sure at least 95% of the people here can settle for that. That's what the whole discussion is about.

 

If everybody was willing to settle for the 2 test drive reviews by Gabe & Dave then we wouldn't be seeing new "I test drove the R56" threads every day

 

Huh?

Everyone's been following the R56's development for the better part of a year. There's no rug, no surprise, no shock. People knew that the MINI would change for 2007 - I believe we've known that for years now.

Stop for a second and consider, just for a moment, that people are actually just speaking their minds and expressing their opinions. Not everyone is about strategic criticisms crafted to boost their self image. Sometimes people just don't like a side-marker, you know?

 

As a future (about 2 months from now after being moved up in the batting order yesterda) first-time owner of a Mini, I really don't care what owners of older or newer Minis think of my car. Especially when they come off sounding like a bunch of 8-year-old kids arguing over which Power Ranger is the coolest. I just think, regardless of age or model, they are the coolest cars on the road. I've wanted one since BMW revived them, and look forward to taking my first spin up Chuckanut Drive or to Mt. Rainier here in Washington.

 

Opinions are one thing, bashing is another.

I don't want to keep up with the Jones, they're deeper in debt!

 

Actually, MINI has been talking about dropping an all new engine in the MINI since very early 2003, less than a year after the R50 and a few months after the R53 were officially released in the US.

The R56 talk has been going on since the beginning of time. MINI was never happy with the TRITEC business relationship that put them at the mercy of their archrival, Daimler-Chrysler.

BMW never imagine in their wildest dreams that the Tritec powered and Rover influenced new MINI would turn out to be such success in other words, the cash cow of the century. BMW never imagined that a small european hatchback would sell like hotcakes in the land of supersize, suburbia, strip malls and SUVs.

The whole R56 debacle centers about a business conflict and that was the launching platform for BMW to take away as much as possible any past Daimler-Chrysler and Rover influences from the design. The R56 embodies the vision of what BMW thinks the MINI should be.. a fun, sporty car and a "baby" Bimmer too.

No rug has ever been pulled from under anyone's feet (Only on Chows wild imagination)

It remains to be seen how the R56 and PSA engine will stand the test of time. You never know. Those R50/53 that Chows so much despise maybe the most desirable MINIs 15-20 years from now Heck, classic Minis came out in 1959 and they still have a strong following 47+ years later, much like in their heyday of back to back Montecarlo victories.