I am posting this in the R56 section, as the R58 area doesn't have much traffic....

I recently purchased a 2014 R58 Coupe S with the N18 engine. The PO changed the oil regularly with Castrol synthetic, every 10K km or so. I had the oil changed last week at ~7500km, and it was black as molasses coming out. Put in fresh Pennzoil Platinum Euro LX 0W30.

However, the mechanic over tightened the drain plug and buggered up the washer, so I went back yesterday to get it replaced ( and torqued to spec). When he drained the oil out, after only 400km, it was again as black as night. I remember changing the oil on my previous Lexus and I swore it could have gone right back in the top it was so clean.

What the heck is happening with my oil? Is black oil a problem? Is it common on a turbo engine?

 

True that turbo engines are dirty. I have not experienced oil getting that dirty in such a short time in any of my turbo engine cars. I have had 3 different ones, 2 ford and 1 MINI a R59 JCW. It seems to me that you could be getting some exhaust blow by into your oil. Just an opinion as I am not an expert.

 

I'll echo the comments from Miata.net... Dirty oil doesn't necessarily mean a thing, need to get an oil analysis to determine what's really going on. That being said, I do believe these engines are just dirty. Japanese engines seem to be better at keeping the oil clean. German engines seem to need a top up between changes more than any other engine I've had, too.

 

This might not help much but here I go. So on my n14 I do engine flushes every 10k and a regular oil change the 5k in between. My oil doesn’t start to turn really dark until around 3k, and yes I do have to occasionally add a bit of oil, if liqui moly not as much as I do on castrol edge.

As for the r60 all4s that has recently showed up in my life. The oil was dark and needed to be changed since I had no clue what was going on. From what we can see they had oil changes done every 10k. I did change the oil and filter, Mobil 1 0w-40 euro blend and a Mann filter. The owner has had to add about 1/4 in the 1k of driving, no biggie there. I’m getting ready to do a flush on it as well and the whole liqui moly treatment. I did notice that here dipstick was stained dark than mine from where the oil has sat on it. We are planning this flush after about 2k on the old oil, honestly I’m just trying to catch backup on all the maintenance and all the fluids are getting dropped in the up coming weekends.

 

Do you have a user name at m.net? I keep bumping into the same people in both places.

 

Same user name over there.

I had a 2011 Miata, then sold it to buy my 2012 Clubman when the kids needed transportation. Minis and Miatas seem to go together well

 

I'll second the oil analysis. That will give you some useful information.

You might also consider doing a couple of short interval oil changes to see if that helps clean out anything. Buy some good quality conventional oil and drain what's in there now and refill. Do that every 300-500 miles a couple of times. No need to change filter. Once you are done with the short interval changes replace your filter and put your better quality synthetic oil back in and watch it for a while.

 

These things shouldnt be ran for 10K without and oil change and i really think that is the problem with the R60s. i will find out this weekend since she just order all the liqui moly stuff and im going to swap all fluids. She said she has around 1200 on the oil so good enough, im really curious to see how dirty it already is. Car has right around 95K on the odometer.

 

I like this suggestion. Get some cheap oil and run some low mileage drain and fills.

 

Not a bad idea.

I wonder if something like SeaFoam would help clean some of the internals as well. Anyone have any experience with that?

 

The advantage of doing the oil change drain and fill routine is the dilution and clearing of any contaminants that might be in the engine. You can run Seafoam through the crankcase, but I might still suggest one or two drain and fills after to make sure you get all the junk out.

Another thing to keep in mind... the N18/N14 oil pan drain plug is in the bottom of the pan, and not all the oil comes out when you drain it. If you really want to start with a clean engine, you'll want to pull the pan and clean it out.

 

Just curious....Why go with the 0W oil in the summer time (or any time it is not sub-zero˚ F)??



.

 

I only did it because it was the euro blend of Mobil 1 synthetic and it wasn’t going to be in there long, only 3 weeks. Liqui Moly 5w-30 special tech LL going in Saturday with new filter.

 

Nothing wrong with running a 0w30 or a 0w40 oil in the summer

 

Heres my reasons for staying away from 0W oils in my MINI's...

While it will still perform well as a lubricant... The evaporative loss is higher with a 0W oil in any given formula/brand....than in a 5W in that same formula/brand.

I don't see any 0W oils made that have low volatility/Evaporation numbers (NOACK).... and most are fairly high in this department .... but I'm certainly open to learn if there were any pointed out to me.

With good 5W oils out there available with great properties in lubricity etc.... and LOW NOACK numbers in the 6-7% range ... I'll go with the 5W30 in my brand choice for many reasons. I have no problem paying $45 for a gallon of excellent oil to keep my MINI happy with an ideal, IMO, oil at the 4500-5000-or-1yr intervals that I change my oils.

For me... especially with the GDI engines (N14 and up) in our MINI's... where IVD's are a known issue and cause of some major malfunctions...Evaporative loss and low NOACK numbers are important to me. Even on my port injected R53's.... I prefer to run low NOACK oil to minimize the oil-top offs needed because of this evaporative loss.

Also... the clearances are set by the manufacturer for 30 weight oil (as in 0W30, 5W30).... so I really don't want to step out of that... unless I was using the car for competition... In that case... it would have a whole lot more things done to the motor setup than just a 40 weight oil in it ... For ME.

For me, I see no reasons to go with a 0W30 oil in a stock engine unless I were to move up to Quebec in the winter and didn't have a block heater.




But picking oils is like picking girlfriends/boyfriens.... personal preferences for many real and personal reasons... so to each their own !

Motor on.


Edit: BTW...IVD= Intake Valve Deposits.



.

 

Got it! I'd like to give Redline a chance in my motor to see how it does. It is supposed to have low NOACK numbers.

 

@mountainhorse This is the oil that was recommended to me from a trusted source. I do not see NOACK numbers listed, but the full spec sheet is here: GPCDOC_GTDS_Pennzoil_Platinum_Euro_LX_SAE_0W-30_Fully_Synthetic_Motor_Oil_(SN_C2_C3_OEMs)_(en)_ TDS.pdf

And yes, I live in Canada so a 0W oil becomes pretty important for 4 or 5 months of the year.

 

Curious what the pour-point temp difference on that full synth you chose... in a 5w and 0w spec.
and... what are the NOACK numbers of those respective oils.

Questions to ponder (NOT statements on my part)
Does the ambient temp exceed the oils ability to safely start the motor... and once warmed up for a minute or two... Is there any need for the 0W??




.

 

Here is a post in a different forum from a member I trust (he has a Ferarri among other cars) regarding the 0 vs 5 weight of oils.

 

I've read many opinions like that... but I've now seen plenty of N14 and N18 motors torn down that have had good oil maint with the factory 5W-30 oils... mind you... 150-200K mile cars... no oil related wear issues... but many of them had IVD issues (MOST N14's had IVD problems).

-45 and -51 pour point differential... HMM... I'm more worried about my door seals and tires cracking...or tearing wheel bearing seals at that temp than oil...
I'm not driving my car at serious below zero temps without a block heater for many reasons.

His comparison IS with same BRAND... but not same "model" of oil... hmm...

For me... more common sense for gentle warm up of engine in those times when the ambient is EXTREMELY cold... and paying attention to properties that affect IVD's... (Low NOACK numbers).

In a carbureted or Port injected engine... less worries with IVD's... but longevity of the oil is still affected by evaporative loss... in lubricity and deposit characteristics.

Oil is the most hotly contested topic on forums like this... with brand loyalty (I have NONE) and personal history weighing in a lot in peoples decisions.

Pragmatics, for me, frame the decision... IMO.... Find a great Lubricant that holds it properties inside of the parameters of operation that I put the engine through, that pays attention to clearances set up by the engine builder.... and does not cause other cascading maint issues (Like IVD's and piston deposits)....

I just don't see evidence that 5W-30 oils have a negative in terms of our engines... and plenty of high mileage N14/18 engines with well timed oil changes.... that have BEAUTIFUL bores/bearings/cams at 200K miles... on 5W-30. I want one that checks all of the boxes... especially for the concerns in OUR engines and the problems that can be avoided with a little research and prudent purchases.




..



.

 

The way I see it, the 0-weight oil has more benefits (in Canadian winters) than downfalls.

What oil are you using? I have read much about NOACK numbers and understand how important a low number is for a DI engine, but I cannot find anything for the Pennzoil that I am using now. I am hoping that by meeting all of the European manufacturers requirements, this oil would be ok. But like you, I do not have any brand loyalty, but would like to get the best possible oil for my car.

Cheers!

 

This is a low SAPs oil. It does not meet BMW LL-01 or MB 229.5 (a tighter spec than LL-01) specs.

From the above referenced data sheet:
"Pennzoil Platinum® Euro LX SAE 0W-30 uses Pennzoil’s® most advanced emissions-compatible technology to help protect the vehicle’s emission system. Its low-SAPs formulation helps to keep diesel particulate filters clean and protects them from ash build-up that can block the exhaust system and lead to reduced engine performance. Pennzoil Platinum® Euro LX SAE 0W-30 can be used for modern European diesel engines with particulate filters, as well as modern European gasoline engines. "

It has been formulated to protect emission equipment your vehicle does not have.

I suggest you consider using the mid SAPs PP Euro 0W-30 instead. That does meet the above referenced specs from BMW and Mercedes.
The Mercedes spec 229.5 has a lower max allowable NOACK evap loss (less than 10%) versus the LL-01 spec of 13% (max)

 

I'm running the Redline 5W-30 (Pour point -49˚F/-45˚C).... with NOACK at 6%
https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/f..._PROD_INFO.pdf

The same oil.... but 0W-30.... has Pour point at -76˚F/-60˚C).... with NOACK at 9%
https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/f..._INFO_2020.pdf


Curious what your coldest ambient temp would be for a 'cold start'... and if you warm up your car for few minutes before moving?



.

 

The car is in a garage overnight, so not much below 0C. However, many days in the winter are -20C while the car sits outside at work. And yes, the car gets a minute or two of warmup on those days.

 

I'm running Ravenol REP 5W-30. Pourpoint -60°C/-76°F and Noack 6.2 %.

https://www.ravenol.de/en/product-ra...rep-sae-5w-30/

Best of both worlds I guess.

On a aside note: I'd check if the correct type of oil filter is used (Purflux L358A) and if it's sitting right. Same with the air filter and air box. You want it to be tight!