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My High Mileage, Low Cost Justa Maintenance plan... Please Scrutnize
I just inherited my wife's pristine 09 justa w 95K because the rough idle, infrequent stalling and oil consumption led us to buy her a new car. Engine light indicates thermostat housing needs replaced as well. Dealer would only give us 2k for a trade-in so I said forget it and now i'm planning on driving it into the ground. I think I'm at the beginning of a long road of incessant problems and I really don't plan to spend any major money on it. I enjoy working on cars, but I hate throwing good money after bad... The following is my plan and I would like some general feedback from you guys in the know...
1) Rough Idle & infrequent stalls: I can live with it...but for 25 bucks I will change out the Valve cover gasket and see it that cures it. Very minor oil leak around the vac pump, perhaps gasket has issues there, Ill also remove those cam sensors that vary the timing on the intake and exhaust and clean them and insure they actuate. (Vanus or something...)
2) Oil consumption: I could chase this until I'm nuts, I can live with it, but Id really like to start putting in cheaper dino oil and would like thoughts on that. When it burns 1 quart every 1-2K I imagine the oil is staying pretty fresh. Ill still change at 5K. Perhaps the Oil consumption is related to Valve cover and PVC/vacuum issues... when I remove valve cover, I will also remove the cover over the large diaphragm in the integrated PVC valve and inspect to see if its intact... I may attempt to gently clean/flush inside the PVC with a hot degreaser of some sort...I dont expect much. stupid design. Has anyone sealed the PVC system with red rtv and bypassed it with a conventional pvc valve in the hose? Might be an option on a non-turbo justa. Thoughts?
3) Fuel: Id like to start putting low grade fuel in it, Id like thoughts on that as well.
4) Code PO128 thermostat housing CEL: Ill live with it, Ill mount my phone right over the blasted engine light and drive in unfettered biss...I have the torque app, Ill watch the ECT, If Im not getting hot, who cares, so it takes a while to warm up. Wondering what the general consensus is on that as well.
Good Grief, I hate it when people ask a million questions in one thread, write a darn book, and expect a response. Guys, It kinda got away from me...sorry
My High Mileage, Low Cost Justa Maintenance plan... Please Scrutinize
I just inherited my wife's pristine 09 justa w 95K because the rough idle, infrequent stalling and oil consumption led us to buy her a new car. Engine light indicates thermostat housing needs replaced as well. Dealer would only give us 2k for a trade-in so I said forget it and now i'm planning on driving it into the ground. I think I'm at the beginning of a long road of incessant problems and I really don't plan to spend any major money on it. I enjoy working on cars, but I hate throwing good money after bad... The following is my plan and I would like some general feedback from you guys in the know...
1) Rough Idle & infrequent stalls: I can live with it...but for 25 bucks I will change out the Valve cover gasket and see it that cures it. Very minor oil leak around the vac pump, perhaps gasket has issues there, Ill also remove those cam sensors that vary the timing on the intake and exhaust and clean them and insure they actuate. (Vanus or something...)
2) Oil consumption: I could chase this until I'm nuts, I can live with it, but Id really like to start putting in cheaper dino oil and would like thoughts on that. When it burns 1 quart every 1-2K I imagine the oil is staying pretty fresh. Ill still change at 5K. Perhaps the Oil consumption is related to Valve cover and PVC/vacuum issues... when I remove valve cover, I will also remove the cover over the large diaphragm in the integrated PVC valve and inspect to see if its intact... I may attempt to gently clean/flush inside the PVC with a hot degreaser of some sort...I dont expect much. stupid design. Has anyone sealed the PVC system with red rtv and bypassed it with a conventional pvc valve in the hose? Might be an option on a non-turbo justa. Thoughts?
3) Fuel: Id like to start putting low grade fuel in it, Id like thoughts on that as well.
4) Code PO128 thermostat housing CEL: Ill live with it, Ill mount my phone right over the blasted engine light and drive in unfettered biss...I have the torque app, Ill watch the ECT, If Im not getting hot, who cares, so it takes a while to warm up. Wondering what the general consensus is on that as well.
Good Grief, I hate it when people ask a million questions in one thread, write a darn book, and expect a response. Guys, It kinda got away from me...sorry
Before putting in cheap oil and gas I'd look into doing the other fixes to see where your at. I've done the cheap oil thing on cars that I knew were beyond fixing. Yours probably isn't that far gone.
My wife's 07 Justa had 146,000 miles on it when we traded it in for a 2016 Countryman. It burned less oil than yours, but I continued to change the oil with synthetic at 5,000 miles intervals. I changed the thermostat housing at something like 120,000 miles. It had the original valve cover on it. It ran really well. She only wanted to trade it to get a larger car...and it made her nervous driving around New England alone at night (she traveled for work at the time).
Oh yea, that thermostat housing can fail suddenly and spew out all of the coolant pretty quickly. If you can get a ScanGauge or the Torque app, watch the coolant temp....if it gets real erratic, then you might only have a few miles before it gets serious.
I'd be hesitant to let up on the maintenance...that Justa might go for a long time....they are under-appreciated (not making any judgment...just commenting on how they are perceived in general).
I have to admit, you make a valid point, after all the car is in immaculate condition, I have always given it the best maintenance and my wife is clean freak. Coming back from the dealer after being low balled on the trade by about 4K had me discouraged. Its also a little discouraging how difficult it seems to pin rough idles and oil consumption on these cars. It seems that people have have changed rings, valves, valve covers, valve cover diaphragms, CC hoses, vanos, timing chains and tensioners. etc etc and still have the rough idle return shortly thereafter and oil consumption to remain unchanged. At this point I believe i will continue to use the good gas and Mobile 1. I'm glad I didn't trade it in. I quite enjoy driving it to work. The rough idle has gone away since I posted this...its as if she herself is telling me not to give up on her. I reset the thermostat code, it has not returned aswell...MINIs...these are strange little cars.
If I were you I fill fix all of those and you will be able to run that mini for another 100k. The PCV valve cover is the most expensive part and replacing it will solve your oil burn (it did on mine). Most of the issues you have can be DYId as long as you are okay to get your hands dirty.
Fixing all of that thru a dealer will cost you around $2500 for parts and labour which is WAY cheaper than buying a new car. Did you not think of that?
Thanks for the comments and advise. Im going to attempt to fix these issues on the cheap. (Remember...this is the low cost maintenance plan...)
So I bought a valve cover gasket from ECS ($25 bones, 2 hours of cutting wood last weekend) and I removed the valve cover this weekend. The intent was to clean the integrated PVC system and inspect the PVC diaphragm. Here's how it went...
Valve Cover Removal: all in all it was a rather easy, and many great posts are already here detailing the process. The most difficult thing was trying to get the wiring harness and plastic cover on the drivers side of the VC out of the way. Here's what not to do: attempt to remove the cap thinking it will give you access. It wont, and you'll only break a couple of the tabs in the process. The entire plastic assembly slides straight upward off a vertical prong. (See the picture) The plug boots should be removed and protected, there are a multitude of wires clipped to the VC which should be gently pried off, and then there are 15 or so bolts holding the VC down. The last issue I had was the valve cover was stuck to the head! I had a bear of time trying to get it free, but I gently began working around the cover slowly separating the cover from the head. The pelican parts VC guide said the cover should not be stuck, well that was incorrect...That booger was fast!
Valve Cover Inspection: Once the valve cover was off, I completely cleaned it and inspected it closely for cracks and obvious issues. I sat it onto of various flat surfaces to look for the least amount warpage...(Oh, word of the wise...don't let the wife see you sliding a VC back and forth on her granite counter tops) It VC looked good! The gasket appeared brittle and close to the vac pump it appeared slightly deformed. Not much, I don't think its the smoking gun to my oil consumption, but perhaps part the cause.
PVC Diaphragm Inspection: On the Justa VC, there is only one PVC outlet which goes to the CC breather hose on the passenger side of the cover. I don't think the Justa VC has all the various flapper valves like the turbo models. I had seen somewhere where the circular cap could be removed and the diaphragm valve under it inspected and even replaced. It was this diaphragm which I suspected could be the underlying issue to my rough idle and consumption. There are four tabs which retain this on the 09 Justa, only one can be seen. I was easily able to pry this single tab up but its impossible to access the others. I broke all three of the other tabs hidden under the cap. (see picture) Here's another word of the wise...DO NOT REMOVE THIS CAP UNLESS YOU PLAN TO REPLACE THE VC. It is ridiculous to believe you can save these tabs. You wont, you'll break them and cap will not securely clip back onto the VC and consequently will not retain the diaphragm properly. So now, you can imagine my dismay when I peered down into a perfectly intact PVC diaphragm. Did I replace the VC? Of course not, (that's like 20 hours of wood chopping...remember, this is the low cost Justa maintenance plan) No, I flushed the internals in a bucket of super hot dish shop and vinegar (video here of that process... (
)then glued the cap back in place with a quality two part catalytic epoxy. I was surprised at how much grease and oil came out of the VC during flushing. It definitely had oil trapped in the internals. Do I think this was the root cause to the Rough Idle or the Consumption? NO, maybe partly. Before cleaning I could easily blow through the entire chamber without any obstruction (diaphragm removed), and it was the same after. There was no noticeable change from before or after. Perhaps I helped, but honestly, this process of removing the cap and jacking around with the VC will only lead to most people damaging a cover. I was hoping to see a torn diaphragm, my diaphragm was in perfect condition. Pictures are attached of the diaphragm, the VC, Etc. For those of you like myself who find it irresistible to not rip the cap off the VC to inspect this mysterious PVC system... take this advise when you glue it back together... only install the glue low on the outer rim of the diaphragm flange, or on the cap in areas where no contact will occur to the rubber diaphragm. (see picture) You only have one shot at this. I glued mine after reinstalling the VC. I installed the glue, then gently set cap on the VC (once you have the glue in-place, and you put the cap on, don't remove it....you'll only drag glue up onto the diaphragm). I then made ball of rags with duct tape and sat that on top of the cap, and then closed the hood. This compressed the ball of rags and kept a fair amount of force pushing the cap down. (don't dent your hood, don't force it to close, use sense. Idiot disclaimer intact...lets continue) The next day, I tried to remove the cap...its stuck on their for life... I feel confident I did a fair job of securing it back in-place without damage.
VANOS: I also removed both of the VANOS sensors, cleaned them, gently blew them out, inspected for obvious damage and reinstalled. Do I think this might have been a root casuse? NO, not really, they looked clean, a little oil came out, as to be inspected, I swapped them and reinstalled.
Results: Don't know yet: I will advise, I did reset the Odometer to insure the oil was at the top bulb. Upon start-up the idle was rock steady, but that problem seems to vary...sometimes its bad, sometimes not...rarely rock steady, perhaps I did something. (I know from past experience idle is not related to low oil level...)
that vac pump is probably your oil burning problem, these things run negative pressure in crankcase and separate oil/air back into the intake. If anything is not working right the oil will go right past the low tension rings (vac issues) or into the intake tract (separator issues)
MiniToBe: I replaced the plugs about 5K ago, that was the first thing I did in trying to rectify the idle surges. I installed the expensive Beru OEM type plugs? The air filter is original. I did pull it out, inspect it and gently tap it on the concrete to loosen any dust and dirt. Its not that dirty, I blew it with air and reinstalled it.
Mega72: Humm, your post is interesting to me, I will start looking into this possibility. I hadn't considered that as another thing which could cause consumption thorough the CC breather. Is there a way to test the functionally of the Vac Pump?
I finished all this on Friday.... no rough idle or surges yet... I don't imagine I fixed anything because nothing was obviously wrong. Time will tell.
yeah you have to vac test, with one of those fluid/cc vac tester setups. cheap way to test at idle is open oil cap and see if you have vac or blowby, should have vac I'm not sure the spec though check repair manual
11-15-2017, 07:48 AM
