Originally Posted by MiniToBe

You do need the tools. Even if Dad didnt help, you still need the tools to precisely set the timing. No biggie though. By time your ready to install, the tools will be there.

Originally Posted by [My_Mini]

Thanks, I know, I was going to wait till today because it's arriving in the afternoon, but this mishap happened. Anyways, how would I go about timing it wih the tools?

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

Don't even think about it without having the Bentley Service Manual! You'll need bolt tightening sequence and torque settings, both described in the manual. There are a few videos available showing the process. I haven't seen them, but they might help. Try searching the forum for them. Also note that the head and sprocket bolts are single use only --- gotta be replaced.

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

You can do all the disassembly you want without using the timing tools, just don't rotate anything. When putting it back together, lock the crank with the tool, then install the cams. This is where you need the manual, or wait for someone with the patience to walk you thru the process. Installing the sprockets, chain, tensioner, etc, is critical. After unlocking the crank, remember to NOT rotate the engine CCW --- that'll screw up the vanos.

If you plan to do a lot of your own work on a mini, you really should invest in the Bentley.

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

Will you have any issues once you install the pieces --- possibly! As long as you know this is considered an "interference" engine --- the valves can interfere with the pistons if not timed correctly, you should be OK. So, when timing is "interrupted" and the head / cams are still in place, be sure not to rotate either the cams or crank. Once the crank is locked with the proper tool, pistons will be at 90 deg and it will be safe to re-assemble. Just don't unlock the crank 'til timing has been set.

Removing the crankshaft pulley was an un-needed step. Doesn't hurt anything but it's just one more item you gotta put back together. This is a critical procedure for anyone, especially a novice. When you get to something you don't understand, post it! Maybe take a pic. Don't be afraid to ask for help.
...also, I'm going to post the photo of the camshaft tomorrow so you can take a look at the problem, the timing chain is the only thing holding me back from removing the head entirely

As I said earlier, disassembly can be done without the timing tools, just don't rotate anything by hand while cams are engaging the valves. For reassembly, follow the Bentley instructions.

As for your father, let him help, but let him know that the "TDC" style of timing doesn't apply to Mini's. Once you get into the Bentley process, and understand what's being done, it's easier to accept. Definitely a PITA compared to TDC timing procedures, but when done properly, it works. There's a good possibility your father is my son's age --- I have a really tough time accepting this Mini engineering. All my previous experience was with the big old "elephant" engines.

One more warning --- injectors. If you remove the injectors so a shop can work on the head, you need another special tool to change and reinstall the seals. Probably easier and cheaper to find a shop with the tool and let them do it. Takes less than an hour if all the parts are available and ready for installation. The process is described in the Bentley manual.

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

There are "valve spring compressor" tools to remove valves, but not just any one will fit around the Mini head --- my old one for V-8's won't fit. A machine shop is your best bet --- take them the head but let them determine which valves need replacing. They'll remove / install and seat the new ones for you. Probably best to grind and re-seat all of them. Without proper "seating", you wont have a good tight seal, leading to low compression and poor performance. One or two might be obvious to you, but the shop will have a better eye and if you don't furnish enough of them, the shop needs to get them --- more time wasted. I doubt if your local mini dealer stocks valves --- probably need to be ordered.

It's virtually impossible to remove the head without disrupting timing. Any shortcuts are best left to experienced people, who understand what they're doing. Any screw-ups will lead to "do-overs", which nobody wants.

I wouldn't count on having it back together by weeks end. Hopefully, you already have the gasket set for removing / installing the head. Note that this set doesn't include a head gasket, just all the other little gadgets that attach to it. There's two different thicknesses of head gasket available. OEM is the thinner one. Then the previously mentioned one-time use bolts --- don't re-use the old ones!

Think about the timing chain and tensioner --- is it due for replacement? Has it been replaced recently? There are kits for this --- lots cheaper than individual parts, and as long as you're in there ---. BTW, this requires removing the crank pulley, which you've already done, plus a couple more items.

Finally, keep your priorities straight! School is a lot more important than a fun toy --- MCS. Make temporary arrangements for school transportation, and work the MCS during spare time. MCS is short-term fun while education is life-long. A good education will pay for a lot of fun toys! Don't forget that!

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

Two choices --- leave the cams alone and pull the head with the cams still in place OR pull the cams off the head then remove the head. Cams don't need to be locked for head removal, 'cause the crank will be positioned correctly and locked before the head is installed. Just don't rotate anything 'til the head is off! When the crank is locked, all pistons are half way down the cylinder, and valve interference can't happen. Currently, you don't know where the pistons are, and any rotation could cause damage.

Another caution --- when the cam caps are removed, note the orientation of the cap numbering, both sequence and which way the numbers are facing when being read. These caps are NOT interchangeable between heads and MUST be repositioned exactly as they were originally installed. If you aren't careful, the caps can be re-installed "backwards" but they won't quite fit properly. You could let the shop do the disassembly but it'll be labor-intensive. After cams are pulled, remove both rocker arms and the hydraulic lifters. Head should have everything removed, including manifold studs, BEFORE you take it to the shop. You could ID / mark each rocker arm and lifter to ensure each one goes back to its original location, but this isn't necessary --- these two parts will work in any location. Maybe inspect each one to ensure no galling, pitting, etc --- cams too.

The crank bolt doesn't need to be removed unless you've already loosened it.

Originally Posted by [My_Mini]

So I'm going with your first option only because the cam torques are giving me hell and I can't remove them at all. I even asked my bro to remove them but they are on super tight... Eventually they gotta come off, either you or the machine shop, and they'll just add it to the labor costs. If the cap bolts are too tight, they'll be easier to remove while the head is still on the block --- one less thing to hold in place while someone else uses a breaker bar for added torque. So, to remove the chain, i loosen it by removing the torque from the last photo?..Again, if this bolt has not been loosened already, leave it alone! The chain doesn't need to be removed unless you're gonna change it. I found a way to see when the pistons are closed, I placed long sticks of the same length indicating the movement. Now I did that to make sure they are closed but since the intake camshaft is slightly off, it didn't allow me to remove anything. Pistons don't open or "close" --- they move from TDC to BDC, which means nothing when setting Mini timing. When I say don't rotate anything, it's to prevent piston / valve interference --- which can only happen when a piston is near TDC. What do you think of this idea?

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

So, from what I'm reading, you can pull the top chain guide, cam sprockets, and eventually the cam. The chain can be kept from falling into the pan by tying it to something on the block --- I use a bungee cord. Then pull the head. You'll have to work the bungee cord thru the head to get it completely off, but the chain shouldn't fall into the pan, if you're careful. If you can't loosen the cam caps with a breaker bar, leave the cams in place and let the shop take care of it.

If you're gonna change the chain, then yes, the crank bolt's gotta come off. Dealer uses a special tool that bolts on in place of the pulley, and can be used to "support" the crank while torque is applied to the bolt to loosen it. Takes lotsa torque to loosen and eventually re-tighten. There are "short-cuts" to this special tool, but not recommended.

edit: Your circled parts are the cam caps. Removal sequence should be as described as above, in red. Won't hurt the engine at all!

Originally Posted by [My_Mini]

Awesome! Ok so to be sure, before I start this, I remove the cam caps right next to the cam sprockets or all of the caps? I will definitely not remove the bolt below the engine. Thanks for letting me know about the chain guide, fortunately I was able to find the whole piece intact right in the dead center of the two chain guides so I have that out and bought a new one.

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

All of them. Heed the previous warning about sequence and orientation. Since the top guide was broken, there's a strong probability the other guides are also shot. Have the chain and guides ever been replaced? And if so, approximately how many miles ago?

Originally Posted by [My_Mini]

By sequence do you mean follow the numbering on the cam caps?
The chain was changed under warranty when it was about 110,000 miles right now it's about 140,000 or less, I haven't checked the odometer recently cause I haven't been driving it, but it should be around that.

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

By "sequence", I'm referring to the placement of each numbered cap --- they aren't interchangeable --- take notes or remember where each one goes, and which way each one is oriented.

With only 30K or so miles on the chain and guides, they should be OK. However, since the top one was broken, the others should be checked closely.

When you get around to setting the timing, you should also check the chain stretch to ensure it's OK. Here's a procedure that shows how to do that, while the chain is being installed. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ml#post4281158 It's the attachment in this post. Maybe read the whole thread for some more hints on what you're doing.

Then, can you let us know how you came to the conclusion that you have a burnt valve? Codes, symptoms, etc? Somebody use a borescope? Leak down test results? You're already pretty far into this repair, so if it's a bad diagnosis, you've wasted a small bundle!

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

While the head's at the shop, you need to inspect #2 cylinder wall and piston top for damage. Then ensure your broken guide has all it's pieces accounted for. Any pieces in the pan need to be removed!

If the injectors were removed from the head after the pic was taken, I strongly suggest you take new seals to the shop and have them installed for you. New seals should have been part of the head's gasket kit --- 4 separate packages of 3 - 4 parts each.

Before installing the head, ensure the crank is locked in place. This will put all pistons at equal height in their cylinders, ensuring the valves will not interfere with pistons when cams are re-installed --- extremely critical! Cams can be installed either before or after head installation. Probably safer to do after, otherwise some of the valves will be open and subject to damage during the install process.

Originally Posted by [My_Mini]

I will definitely remove the oil pan, since an oil change is due and I will definitely keep you updated for any parts found in the pan. However, would I have to use a new gasket for the pan?....before this whole process, I took the car to a mechanic and the guy changed the whole fuel injector system, so I'm not sure if removing the injectors is necessary?....I will definitely follow those steps when replacing the whole head and ask, because I really want to be sure haha. The machine shop guy told me that he might have the part ready by today, hopefully he will, that way I can start the installation process. I will keep you posted about the pistons.

I forgot to answer your question, the mechanic first checked the coil electric line, that was fine, he checked the pressure in each valve, and noticed that there was no pressure in cylinder 2. However he wasn't sure if it was the pistons or valves. But from much research on the forums, I came to the conclusion that the valves were bad. Another giveaway was the spark plug that had burnt off tip. When the mechanic saw this when checking the car he was worried because it didn't seem right.

Originally Posted by oldbrokenwind

There is no pan gasket anymore, discontinued. Gotta use "gasket-in-a-tube", available from any auto parts store.

If the head can be worked on without removing injectors, then no, you don't need to change the seals. Usually mechanics prefer to work on "clean" heads --- all attachments removed. There is the danger of "stuff" getting lodged in the injector nozzles if they aren't removed. Maybe talk to the mechanic about it --- find out how he protected the injector nozzles while cleaning the head, if he didn't remove them.



Good to hear your "broken valve" suspicions were confirmed. Hopefully the broken plug tip didn't score the cylinder wall.

And don't rely on only my input. Use the Bentley manual as much as possible. That and the attachment I referenced earlier. Setting the timing correctly is the most critical part of what you're doing.