Greetings and salutations,

I must first admit that I was way too casual with my oil changes, and oil level checks. At 158k on my Justa Cooper, it caught up with me. It would start fine and idle well until I drove a while, then when at a stop sign or light it felt like it was running on 2 cylinders. Checking the CEL fault codes, I got 2771, 2772, 2775, 2776, 2781, 2782, 277D, and 277E. I use a Bavariantech scanner, so it only shows the 4 digits, not the alpha character preceding the digits ( P, etc. ). These are all cylinder misfire codes.

After driving like this for a week, I finally got a chance today to pull the Vanos solenoids and clean them. This fixed the problem.

There are a couple of videos on the Tube I would suggest watching, should someone want to try this themselves. It is an easy task, but I'd like to share some additional tips..

You will need a 7mm and 10mm socket and a 2-3 inch extension, a small and medium blade screwdriver, shop towels, extra motor oil, a good small flashlight, a torque wrench if you don't trust your experience tightening bolts, and possibly a telescoping magnet for finding dropped bolts.

I would suggest draining your oil before starting the solenoid removal(s). It would be silly to run dirty oil right back into your soon to be clean solenoids, so it's a good time to do an oil change. Also, since it will take a while to pull the solenoids, you'll get a lot of the old oil drained out of the engine during this time.

Remove the front solenoid first. It's much more accessible, and will make removing the rear one less stressful on you and the solenoid.

Removal of the throttle body inlet air duct for the rear solenoid removal is well advised. Two 7mm bolts, easy to remove.

I would imagine you could remove the solenoids with their harness still attached, but I unplugged mine first. The connector tab needs to be pushed "outward", not "inward" like some connectors of this style.

Important note; once you have removed the solenoid bolt, the solenoid will seem like it's stuck into the head. do not use channel locks, etc. to try to pull it out. do not pull on the plastic connector body on the end of the solenoid. do not twist the solenoid. Doing these things will most likely require a replacement after you've broken the original. Here's the trick to getting it out. Work a blade screwdriver's tip between the solenoid's bolt flange and the cylinder head. I thought this would bend the flange, but instead the solenoid literally popped out. It did take a bit of patience.

After removing and giving them a quick wipe with a shop towel, out of curiosity, I measured the resistance of the solenoid's coils and measured 7.3 ohms on both of them.

Then came the cleaning. I'd read in other threads that gunk was observed on the solenoid's screen. This was not the case with either of mine, they looked clean. I then soaked both of them in a cup of Castrol 5-30 synthetic, and used my small blade screwdriver to delicately move the plunger back and forth while it was in the oil. a black film oozed out of each solenoid into the oil. I let them soak for a while longer, changed the oil in the cup, and repeated, more black film. Once more, and then I wiped them off and re-installed everything.

I finished my oil change, triple checking the dipstick and pouring in a bit at a time as I got close to the full mark ( I also "wet" the new oil filter with some oil before installing it, a good practice I think ).

I took a 20 minute drive to see if the rough idle had gone away, and it did. As an old field service rep, I know one test is not enough, and will know at the end of tomorrow whether I'm out of the woods, but I feel confident that I've dodged a bullet, and my Mini is back to normal ( normal for 158k anyway ). My wicked ways are now behind me and I will faithfully keep an eye on my oil level and oil replacement interval, which will now be every 5k.

I'm sure I've forgotten to mention a thing or two, If I think of something to add I'll do so.

Cheers,

OxyBlue Bill in Monterey

 

Nice write up!

 

Yea, very nice. Post up pics if you have them of the repair. How clogged was the vanos solenoid ?

Solenoid Valve (SOLV) Vanos Newest version 11368610388

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/11368610388




Thanks

 

Sorry I haven't replied sooner, lots of OT at work. I average 150 miles a day, and the day after cleaning the motor it went back to the same problem after driving an hour to my first customer call. I went straight to My Mini dealer and blew 700 bucks on 2 Vanos solenoids, 4 spark igniters, 4 spark plugs, and a valve cover gasket. I installed all that night, and took a test drive. As usual, it started normally, and idled very smoothly at approx. 900 rpm. I drove 10 miles on the freeway at 60-65mph, pulled off and at the first stop light, once my wheels came to a stop, it ran as if it were firing on two cylinders. Note; no CEL's popped up ( that will typically happen while I'm crushing on the freeway for anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour after starting out, with the same codes as mentioned above, minus the xxxD code(s). They haven't returned ).

To reiterated the symptom, once the engine is warm, the motor will idle rough, but cruise just fine. Once in this condition, as long as the wheels are rolling, the engine ( if placed in neutral, ie; coasting to a stop ) idles at 900 and smooth. Once the wheels come to a stop the fun begins, rough idle and knocking. Trying to hold a bit of throttle to re-create the rolling idle isn't possible, as it will run rough up to 2k or more. Example- I had a long mild downhill to a stoplight, probably a quarter of a mile. I put it in neutral and coasted to the light. It idled fine until the wheels came to a stop. To me this shows that it isn't a loading up issue or the like, but an active change in air/fuel/cam timing management ( see "Vanos" below ).

If it sits off for longer that 15 minutes or so, then it's smooth again, until it's driven for 5 minutes or so, and the rough idle returns.

The no. One cylinder turned the new spark plug's insulator dark in one day. The electrode and insulator are dry, but dark. The other three plugs are a light coating of white, and also dry. ( my old school understanding of white electrodes is a lean condition, and "tan" use to be the normal color. Let me know if this is true or not..

Since I'm getting both #1 cylinder and multiple cylinder misfire codes, I figure there's more going on than just a problem with the #1 cylinder.

I figure I've got Vanos issues other than the solenoids. I'm also guessing that the good cold idle is a result of either a component cooling down when the motor is off, and working until it overheats again, or the computer running a scheme that overrides the Vanos system until it's warmed up.

However, one thing I will do when I get a day off is to pull the valve cover and try to flush it, thinking that if it's plugged up it might take the engine getting warm before it affects the idle. Does this sound feasible? And should I take any precautions doing this ( what fluid should I flush it with? Is there an actual valve in the cover, or just a matrix of path(s) to the outlet?

Regarding cleaning the original Vanos solenoids, there weren't clumps of crud on the screens, they really didn't look that bad. Cleaning in motor oil however resulted in a cloud of black flowing out of them. As mentioned above, brand new replacements made no change. I did measure the resistance of both new solenoids, and like the originals, they were both exactly 7.3 ohms ( I checked with my company issued DMM, and my good old Fluke 87.. All readings the same. Note; the new solenoids have filter screens on all three open sections, vs. one one screen on the originals. Good for keeping crud out, but harder to actuate the moving part of the solenoid, as you will need something like a dental pick to access the moving part from the hole on the end.

With a number of folks that have had the exact same symptoms as me, I have to think someone out there knows the cause/fix to this problem. If so we're all ears : )

I'll keep Ya'll updated..

Bill

 

Have you tried replacing the non return valve...I've got the same situation and I ordered this. This very tiny valve regulates or somehow controls the oil to the SOLV or vanos....I hope it helps. I will update you once its done.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Site...lve/ES2675959/

related thread : https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...any-ideas.html

 

Good Day to all, Finally after I change the Fuel Breather Tank Valve it ends up the long agony for searching the cause for the erratic and intermittent idling issue. hope it help you guys.

 

Good Day to all, Finally after I change the Fuel Breather Tank Valve and it ends up the long agony for searching the cause for the erratic and intermittent idling issue. hope this help you guys.

 

We're replacing Vanos solenoids pretty regularly at this point. At least it's relatively cheap and easy.

 

Little check valve. Here is the diagram, but thats good pic to see it there.

 

I couldn't figure out how to move the plunger back and forth. I put a screwdriver in different parts of the solenoid but nothing moved. I just soaked the solenoid in oil and it seemed to clean it a bit. If there is a clear way to move the plunger, please inform me.

 

What's the function of the Non Return Valve?

Thanks

 

I was experiencing similar symptoms as Satsloader and had the SOLV valve replaced. It was full of crud and I thought I had nailed the problem. It seemed to drive fine for the first day but now it is back to stalling and taking making multiple tries to get it started. I am also experiencing a loud vibration when accelerating (almost sounds like a vibrating heat shield). Was the non-return valve replacement a permanent fix?
Thanks

 

bearcat83, What kind of vibration your are talking about? Is it coming from the suspension? or when accelarating or decelarating?

 

When acceleterating there is a rattling sound. The exhaust sounds lower than normal. I can replicate it a little if I rev up the engine at a stop; however, it is most pronounced when accelerating. I haven't a chance to put it up on ramps to see if there is something loose with the exhaust. It seems odd that the rough idle and stalling and the rattling/exhaust sound change occurred around the same time.

 

Symptoms have disappeared. I checked the oil level and was surprised how low it was (I have never had an issue with it using much oil in the past). Even though it was getting close to an oil change, I topped it and the symptoms went away. I have worked on cars for quite a while and I have never seen a relationship between oil level and rough idling. I thought I saw a reference to the correlation between the two on a thread once but thought it was a bit odd. Can anyone provide some insight on this?

 

For your engine to be running the way you describe you must have been well below 1.5 quarts! Running the engine low on oil decreases lubrication causing wear and friction. Two oil changes ago I didn't put enough oil in my engine, I immediately noticed after starting the engine just after the oil change that the engine was running rough.

I immediately turned off the engine checked the oil and it was towards the bottom of the dipstick, just barely. So I poured another quart of oil in and the rough running engine immediately started running smooth again. Oil just doesn't lubricate the engine parts, it cools them as the oil wash over the hot engine internals. Ever wonder why you oil gets scalding hot?

A Justa Cooper should not be burning any oil and if it is there's a not so good reason why! How long did you drive it with low oil levels?

 

@Satsloader: How did this issue turn out for you? I think I'm seeing similar symptoms in my '10 Justa

 

CHEAP aftermarket filters will damage them too. Seen particles from el cheapo Car Quest filters make their way down stream clogging the micro-screens of these SOLVS.

Use OEM filters, they come with new gaskets and quality is much better with 25% more filtering surface area. Change oil every 5-6K miles if you plan on keeping it long.

 

+1 , they lint like crazy.

 

I have the same problem. Car runs great for few days and suddenly have rough idle. I clean the solenoid and drives good again for next few days. It got a little bit dirty again but not enough to clog the mesh on solenoid. Anyway clean it and good again .... just don;t want to continue that.

Any solution? I am going crazy with this issue.

Could be a different valve?

 

Liqui moly engine flush or a similar product, run it then change oil. Should clean out the gunk.

 

My local shop replaced the solenoid, and that solved the problem for me.

 

tks for feedback. did you experience after cleaning solenoid it would work fine for few days but then idle turn rough again? Or idle was rough and continue like that?

My solenoid doesn't get clogged to a point would prevent oil to flow.

 

Do you have the older version or newer versions solenoid ?

 

newer version