Hi folks,

Brutus (my pre-owned 2007 R56) and I are new to the forums and site.

For the past couple of months, we've been getting CEL warnings and have had some rough starts/idles. Since we're no longer under warranty, I took Brutus to my local mechanic who's praised on Yelp and other sites. Their team has been really open and informative as they've talked through the issues I've experienced with Brutus.

My concern is that they've told me that Brutus' valves are competing for the most crudded up award and that a valve job is in order, which is estimated at $5k. Ouch. They've said that they have to go beyond the walnut shell blasting because of the buildup.

This of course is a bunch of cash, but I'm wondering how much a job like this is normally (location is LA)?

A couple of things have run through my mind:
1. Do I pony up the money?
2. Do I try Seafoaming the car or something similar and hope that helps with both performance and being able to clear codes/smog?
3. Do I try #2 and sell the car? (Lord knows I don't want to pay for the full valve job and then sell the car, but I can't in good conscience sell the car without fixing it to some degree, nor would I be able to pass smog to sell it)

I do love the car, but I certainly don't want it to nickel and dime me to death.

Any thoughts from you all? Thanks in advance.

 

I'd sure try a competent walnut blaster before pulling the head. You may need a valve job, but you may not. I'd gamble. I don't think there is any amount of gunk in there that isn't cleanable. There may be other scenarios that has caused valve problems but I'd still gamble and rule out any timing chain issues at the same time. If you blast, get before and after pictures for proof. Others on this forum will most likely suggest a good shop in the LA area to get a reputable blast. $5k seems high to me for the labor to R&R a head and straighten up the valves and seats.

 

I would definitely try to seafoam it before shelling out that kinda money. Might have to do it a few times but its better then $5000. I just did a seafoam treatment on my R53 today and it was like night and day. I can feel more power and it did away with the stutter under acceleration. Its worth a shot.

 

It's my understanding that a seafoam treatment on R56's won't benefit the valves due to the direct injection configuration, i.e. the seafoam will get injected directly into the combustion chamber, bypassing the valves.

 

Typically seafoam is not added to the gas on these cars but is instead sucked in through a pcv line. Check YouTube or here for how to. Simple job. I would get a walnut blast first. $400-$800 range depending on shop.

 

If you do it through your vac line it will. Its going through the intake.

 

These is all good information.

Are there any owners in the LA area that can recommend a good place to do the walnut blast?

I've done a lot of research on the Seafoam treatment and plan on doing that tomorrow (I've got 2 bottles worth). I figure that I should do that as a start before I consider much more expensive measures.

Thanks everyone!

 

Seafoam is a waste of time and money, try the walnut blast, a competent tech will get them clean.

 

Seafoam is definitely not a waste of time and money i just used it yesterday though my vac line and theres a big difference in power and also got rid of my stutter on acceleration. Seafoam is good stuff.

 

I hate to say it but I did the Seamfoam through my vac line. It's a placebo. The Seamfoam doesn't clear up the carbon on the back side of the valves (if you have an R56). There are two options: 1) Pay a stupid amount of money for the dealership to blast the valves or 2) Get in and clean the valves by hand. It's about a 4-5hr process. Really simple, just time consuming.

 

Question for the OP. Did the shop do a compression (or leak down) test? The numbers will give you an idea of the condition of the valves. If it's holding compression in all the cylinders, get it walnut blasted as others recommended..

 

It's possible that a chunk of carbon has lodged itself on the valve\valve seat and it is causing some issues for you. Before pulling the head, like everyone here has said, get a good walnut blast. Follow it up with several doses of properly applied Seafoam or BG44 and see where you stand with it.

 

It is a waste in a r56/Direct Injection design.

That's the issue here.

It may slow the buildup, but once the buildup has set it, the only way to remove it is mechanical blasting / scrubbing.

 

Just curious but how is it that much different if you do it though the vac line or the intake it still has to flow through the valves.
Thats how air gets in and out of the cylinder. So if the seafoam is introduced into the system through the intake and gets to the valves how would it not work. not trying to argue just not seeing your logic.

 

Hi AZdsrt,

I did have a leakdown test performed. Initially, it was inconclusive. It was failing, but failing worse than they understood and opened up the manifold. They found that the valve cover assembly was cracked and leaking, but the intake valves were crudded up.

In their valve job quote, they'd be replacing the cylinder head gaskets, timing chain and guid rails and a variety of other nuts and bolts.

From the work they've done previously, the timing chain and all are in good visible condition.

They did talk about the walnut blast cleaning, but once the manifold was opened, they felt it wouldn't be enough.

 

Why replace the valves for $5000 when a $800 cleaning is all that is needed????
I am confused....

 

PS
if the valves are crudded up...a leakdown or compression test may yield 0 psi...I have personally seen this ..heck two r56's were towed in...( I was hanging out, chatting about mini stuff)...
One had 15 psi on one cylinder....the other had ZERO.
AFTER CLEANING...BOTH RAN GREAT......

 

Oh, your logic is sound. Problem is, this is not your "run of the mill" intake sludge. The R56's (07-2010, pre-N18 dual VANOS setup) suffer from a major issue where carbon builds up on the intake valves. The carbon is a hard, hard "real" carbon, much like hard coal deposits on the intake valve stems, intake ports, and valve seats and faces. People have tried 24 hour soaks with zero results.

No matter how much "soaking" you do, will not help. Low-RPM driving, short trips, partial warm ups are all major issues in contributing to the issue - along with a poorly engineered DI and PCV system.

The problem has been greatly reduced for most, if not all of the later R56 cars (post 2011).. due to a head redesign, dual VANOS, and an updated PCV system.

 

O ok i got ya. I didn't realize they were that bad.

 

+762874628734

I've got an 07 MCS and just buckled and did the walnut blast 3 weeks ago. HUGE difference for me - CEL hasn't returned, idles smooth now, instant response when accelerating instead of an awkward hesitation. Difference in power? Dunno. People seem to confuse hesitation with power.

If you have carbon build-up as bad as they say you do, seafoam won't even put a dent in it. Don't waste your money, it's not worth it at all in these cars.

I paid $425 for the walnut blast at my local dealership. I'm in FL though.

1. If there is another MINI dealer within a reasonable distance, I would definitely get a second opinion. It NEVER hurts to have a second opinion. You don't have to tell them what dealership A told you. Let them come to you with their thoughts.
2. If carbon build-up is a probable cause, do the walnut blast first. $400-800 is better than paying near $5,000. That's insane in my opinion, even for a valve job.

 

You want this guy!! http://www.ltmotorwerks.com/

He does the walnut cleaning and has a good rep online in the BMW world.

If you need a new valve cover and gasket, those parts are $300 or less I think [IMG]penskeparts.com[/IMG]and is a direct bolt on. The PCV system in the valve cover is not serviceable. Once it is clogged you just replace it.

Timing chain and guides are tricky. They can be tested with a proper tool that measures slack. It will tell you how close to maximum slack you are currently. There is a active campaign ongoing where owners are getting letters and having repairs done free of charge. Your car has to be a certain criteria. Model year and prior repair for issue or not kinda thing. Don't pay someone else to do this before finding out if MINI will check it/fix it for free.

Seafoam has its fans. I tried it and don't think it did anything but burn Seafoam. Walnut blasting however made a huge difference.

My $0.02

 

I just went though pulling the head on my MINI after 130K miles. I had 8 worn exhaust guides but the valves were fine. My timing chain needed to be replaced so I pulled the head for good measure.

Walnut blasting is the way to go for a low mile engine (under 100K). There is an update to the ECU firmware which is suppose to help with the carbon build up. If you have allot of miles on the engine, you may want to pull the head. You may as well replace the valve cover too since they just wear out due to a poor design. This will help keep so much oil getting into the intake manifold. An oil catch can installed on the turbo side of the valve covers PCV system will also help. I also installed a DDM intake system and a free flow exhaust system.

The valve pocket of the N14 engine is very restrictive. I did not have mine ported. I will when I rebuild the lower end.

My next step since I have the original firmware is to have my MINI properly tuned by a professional tuner taking care of the carbon build up issue.

I love the car and will keep her forever.