From what I've read, the rear sway can really being the suspension mods you've already made as well as overall handling to life. So what are the disadvantages?

 

You wear out tires faster by driving faster in corners? That's the only downside I've noticed.

 

I would think they will wear more evenly since most of the understeer/push is gone.

 

Going of my experiences with my previous car, it really depends on how drastic an increase in stiffness you go with. Cruising on a flat, relatively smooth road, you won't notice any difference between stock and the upgraded unit, but throw twisties and/or potholes into the mix and you'll notice a definitely stiffer ride. Swaybars are a torsion spring that act on the difference between opposite sides of the suspension to try and limit their independent motion, thus cornering becomes flatter, and body roll is decreased. However, a consequence of this is that pot holes and such that only affect one wheel at a time become much more noticeable. Weather this is a big deal or not to you is something only you will be able to answer. Just keep in mind, all tuning is compromise. To gain something, you must give up something in return. You can make a car handle better, but as a result you will either sacrifice some of the ride comfort, deal with more expensive parts, or both. I'm not saying not to modify the car, merely trying to make you aware of all the consequences modifying your car bring about, I hate to see someone dump money into upgrading their car only to find that they got more than they bargained for.

 

Putting in a new rear sway bar was the first mod I did, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. Although the change wasn't as dramatic as I thought it might be, the improvement was clear. I loved the previous response from CKeffer, and I can tell you that the ride in my car is indeed, a bit more harsh as he said it would be. However, eliminating understeer and being flatter in the corners makes it WELL worth the price. Understeer scares the &^#% out of me, personally!

I will tell you that I may have gone too far by going to a 22. I recently caught myself in a nice, though unexpected dirft though a left turn when I was trying to beat a light. It was on concrete, which I believe has less grip to begin with, and it was very easily controlled. Not a quick release where the back end is gone before you feel it, but it did surprise me. I am on the softest setting for my 22, but I might feel a little bit more comfortable if I had gone to a 19 on the firmest setting. Who knows?!?! Maybe that wouldn't be enough. I will tell you that I have pushed it pretty hard on a few mountain roads, and the handling has been close to perfect, considering my abilities and no other suspension mods. It may have even encouraged me to push a little beyond my comfort zone, which was REALLY fun. It makes me want to try a track day just to see how far these cars will go.

Overall, a great first mod for me.

 

lol on my last car I went from 19mm front and 17mm rear to 29mm front and 27.5mm rear bars (made the car pretty much neutral and very easy to drive quite fast at autox events) so I got kind of an extreme experience to go on. But that's why I also said the extent of the change would depend on the severity of the upgrade, a 22mm bar is obviously going to have more impact than a 19mm, but less than welding in a steel girder from a construction yard in place of the original setup :D

 

Stiffens the general ride too, and the expense of the bar and installing it. Modified too far, can make car dangerous for the inexperienced.

Other posts detail the general stiffening--on many cars may be a plus, but decide for yourself on a car with a stiffer ride than most for starters.

Cost is obvious. Haven't done Mini install yet, but sounds more complicated (having to drop other parts) than bigger Audi's I have done both front and rear.

Substantial beefing up of rear in particular will reduce understeer and can bring oversteer into play. The average distracted barely trained U.S. driver, many of whom by now never drove an older RWD car w/ no electronic nannies, is often not ready for oversteer, particularly suddenly during a panic evasive action. May not apply to you, but consider other family (or other) drivers who may use the Mini. I do in my changes. Posts and available outside advice seem to say no real issue at 19, but start to be cautious w/ the 22, particularly the stiffer settings on an adjustable bar.

And yes, I have usually changed the bars on my recent cars, and plan to change the Mini rear just marginally. A little too stiff--with 17's and the Sport suspension to start are my primary concerns/downsides.

 

I had Way Motor Works install my 19mm bar for $300 total, and I liked the effect immediately in corners (less understeer). I've heard others say that a 21 or 22mm bar can cause problems if you aren't careful, so I went 19mm. There's still some understeer, but way less than stock. I'd do it again. I'd never try the install myself having looked at pix, not to save $100. I watched the 2 Way dudes do mine at AMVIV. Not my cup of tea.

 

The only disadvantage I can think of is the additional attention necessary to keep the bushings adequately lubed. An extra squirt of grease one per year.

That's about it.

 

NO you should not need to regrease your sway bar yearly. That may be the case if your running a cheaper bar that the bushings don't hold the grease in. But I've installed a couple hundred Hsport rear sway bar and only ever regreased one of them. I would say it's cause the bushings on the Hsport have a proper channel to hold the grease, most of the cheaper bars just have smooth or knurled bushings that the grease will work it's way out pretty quick. Plus IF I did have to regrease an Hsport bar they have zerk fittings making it a few minute job rather than praticly removing the bar like other brands.

As for tire wear most people that drive their car hard in the corners and don't have camber plates will see improved tire wear, since the car will rotate much better.

I promise you can't go wrong with a Rear Sway bar being the first suspension mod.

 

Way, you must have forgotten that you sold me my H-sport bar and installed it in my old MINI at MITM3.

Yeah, annual greasings is probably overkill. I think did it twice in 4 years.

 

So why are you regreasing it, just cause it's easy to do?

 

'cause I'm not (or wasn't) smart enough to know not to.

 

Second best bang for the buck mod there is for the MINI. First being a 15% pulley. Since you have an 2011 that moves a rear bar up to being the best bang for the buck mod.

I have 19mm H-Sport bar on my R53 & have never needed to grease it. After 90,000 miles of daily driving it is still silent.

Mine came from Helix... http://www.helix13.com/1st-gen-mini/...suspension/#go

 

Will this reduce understeer on a car that does not have the DTC option? I'm considering a 19mm bar on mine.

 

On my 2011 S I went for a 22mm bar on the middle setting. But - I have the soft, standard suspension, so any extra harshness isn't noticeable. (Some of our Australian back roads - shall we say - exercise the suspension considerably and the more absorbent suspension is a better compromise.) The car is very nearly neutral now. I was finding on long curves the understeer would still build up a little (I have the electronic limited slip diff - maybe that does it?), so I added some negative camber (just with the standard front strut adjustment) and that mostly fixed that. I've had the back step out a few times, usually braking hard in downhill S-bends, and the stability control catches it faster than I can. I run with the traction control off (I gather the electronic nannies are toned down a bit, allowing more cornering attitude - and fun!) but with the stability control on. The handling is awful (heaps of understeer) with the diff and no stability control, so BMW have done a really good job on the software. Overall - yes, I'd recommend a rear bar. A 22mm bar will dial out nearly all understeer - if that's not your preference or experience level, I guess a 19mm bar would be a safer option. I got an Alta bar and it's an easy replacement for the standard rear bar on the same mounting points.

oldtruckpainter: yes, it will reduce understeer on anything.

A rear sway bar fundamentally works by reducing the grip at the rear. An alternative to reducing understeer is adding negative camber at the front, which increases grip there instead. Works well (I have 3-degrees on my Cooper), gives lots of turn-in bite and I can get on the power very early in the corner (you need that on a Cooper, to keep up with the Ss ). It does have a disadvantage - extra tire wear, and quite a bit of tramlining too.

 

I don't see any disadvantages to it besides the install! I don't like dropping the subframe. I installed mine on Sunday, along with end links F/R and Mach v springs. Completely new car, handles like a dream now. Just need to get rid of the run flats next.

I have to go back though and grease the bushings for the sway bar. I forgot to do that and I am pissed now haha.

 

pw4 - Thanks for the feed back. Gave me the info I needed. Sounds like a new rear bar will be my next mod.

 

I have a 2011MCS w/Sport Suspension. The OEM Sport Suspension bar is 18.6mm(yes, I have accurate calipers) so I installed a 22mm Alta bar in the soft setting and will increase it from that point if necessary.

 

My 08 MCS had a 17 mm rear bar (I used mics), and the 19 mm H&R bar that I installed actually measured just over 18 mm. I don't know if the suspension specs changed between 08 and 11, but I did notice a small difference with the aftermarket bar. My car has the sport suspension option, and I have not done other mods yet. Still, I can't complain for $129. Also, I did not notice a rougher ride, but it was a pretty minimal change.

Once the snow is gone (maybe april?), I will add some front camber and see how that helps. I also have a set of TSW springs. I am happy with the car now (except for lack of front traction with my snow tires), and think that it will only get better. These cars are great.....

Mike

 

Mike: That was why I went to a 22mm bar, for more change if desired. I too will put on camber plates when I change shocks, but I am still undecided on which shocks to use. I do not want to lower the car because of driveways & speed bumps. Koni FSD's have been recommended or the JRZ-RS shocks.

Stephen

 

Note that the stiffness of a torsion spring (which is what a sway bar is, a torsion bar connecting the two wheels together) goes up with the FOURTH POWER of the diameter. So going from a nominal size of 17mm to a nominal size of 19mm gives you (19^4)/(17^4) = 1.56, which is about a 50% increase in rate!

This assumes the materials are the same, the bar lengths are the same, the effective lever arms are the same, and so on.

 

Which hole on the sway bar makes it stiffer? The outter or inner? Why?
Thanks!!!

 

Stiffer with the inner hole... Less leverage on the bar that way.

Spridget

 

Careful with the FSD's...they cannot be put with lowered springs. But with the stock springs they are great. Great improvement in ride and no loss of handling on the street. They almost seem soft until you go into a corner or make a quick turn and the car just sticks...I loved them on the street but I didn't like them for the track or autox; it was almost like they could not keep up when the car was pushed to 98%.

IMHO - camber plates and RSB are the best 2 handling mods for a Mini.

However, disadvantages of a larger bar - on the street I would not go with anything larger than 19mm RSB on an otherwise stock suspension; maybe 20 mm on the sport suspension (that has a larger front bar). Larger can give too much oversteer and an inexperienced driver may find the back end coming around if they lift in the middle of a sweeper (entrance ramp or otherwise).