I believe turning off DSC also disables traction control. Is there a mod that allows traction control to work with DSC off?

Thanks,

DOC

 

This is why they make Owners Manuals for the car.

You could have DSC and DTC in your car.

the car normally runs in DSC mode Pressing the button a time or two will shut off DSC and an indicator light will come on to show it is turned off. and should turn on DTC if installed in you vehicle.


Pressing the button and holding for three seconds turns off both DSC and DTC

 

I can't seem to find anything in the owner's manual about a mod that allows traction control to be on with DSC off.

DOC

 

So the MINI OL is unavailable this morning and I was only able to find a 2009 owner's manual at motoringfile. In that, the systems are described on pg. 57-58. Rather poorly imo, so it is kind of hard to figure out what they are saying in it.

My understanding though is the same as schatzy's - normal mode is for both DSC and DTC on. Press the button once and DSC is turned off but DTC remains on. Press and hold the button for three seconds and both DSC and DTC are turned off.

So I think no mod is needed to achieve the result you desire.

 

DTC comes on only when you press the button to turn it on. DSC is always on unless you press the button to shut it off. It's all in the manual. It's not crystal clear but its in there.

 

So DOC doesn't need a mod to have DTC on, DSC off? Just need to figure out the right combination of button presses?

 

Exactly. If I wasn't so lazy I'd go out to my car and tell you what page its on in the manual.

 

It is on page 64-65 of the 2010 manual as show on line at the owners lounge.

Here is the text from the manual. It is not the clearest writing I have ever seen but it does explain it.

Driving stability control
systems
Your MINI has a number of systems that help to
maintain the vehicle's stability even in adverse
driving conditions.
The laws of physics cannot be repealed,
even with driving stability control systems.
An appropriate driving style always remains the
responsibility of the driver. Therefore do not
reduce the additional safety margin by engaging
in hazardous driving thereby running the risk of
an accident.

Antilock Brake System ABS
ABS prevents locking of the wheels during braking.
Safe steering response is maintained even
during full braking. Active safety is thus
increased.
Braking safely, refer to page 93.
Among others, ABS includes the following functions:
> Cornering Brake Control CBC
> Electronic brake-force distribution EBV
> Brake Assist

Cornering Brake Control CBC
Driving stability and steering characteristics are
further enhanced while braking in turns or during
a lane change.

Electronic brake-force distribution EBV
The system controls the brake pressure in the
rear wheels to ensure stable braking behavior.

Brake Assist
Rapidly depressing the brake causes this system
to automatically develop maximum braking
force. Thus, the system helps keep braking distance
to a minimum. At the same time, all the
benefits provided by ABS are exploited.
Do not reduce the pressure on the brake for the
duration of the full braking application.

Dynamic Stability Control DSC
DSC prevents the driving wheels from losing
traction when you pull away from rest or accelerate.
The system also recognizes unstable driving
conditions, for example if the rear of the car
is about to swerve or if momentum is acting at
an angle past the front wheels. In these cases,
DSC helps the vehicle maintain a safe course
within physical limits by reducing engine output
and through braking actions at the individual
wheels.
DSC also encompasses the following functions:
> Antilock Brake System ABS
> Electronic brake-force distribution EBV
> Brake Assist
> Cornering Brake Control CBC
> Hill Assist

Deactivating DSC
Press the button repeatedly until the DSC indicator
lamps come on. DSC is deactivated. Stabilizing
and propulsion promoting actions are no
longer executed.
When driving with snow chains or to 'rock free'
in snow, it can be helpful to switch off DSC for a
brief period.
To increase vehicle stability, activate DSC again
as soon as possible.

Activating DSC
Press the button again: the DSC indicator lamps
go out.
For better control
If the indicator lamp flashes:
The DSC controls the driving and breaking
forces.
If the indicator lamps are on:
DSC is deactivated.

Dynamic Traction Control DTC*
DTC is a type of DSC that is propulsion optimized
for special road conditions such as uncleared
snowy roads. The system ensures maximum
propulsion though with restricted driving stability.
You therefore need to drive with suitable
caution.
In the following exceptional situations, it can be
useful to briefly activate DTC:
when driving on snow-covered inclines, in
slush, or on uncleared snowy roads
> when rocking the vehicle free, driving out of
deep snow or on loose surfaces
> when driving with snow chains

Activating DTC
Press the button: the DTC indicator lamps come
on.
For better control
If the indicator lamp flashes:
DTC controls the driving and breaking
forces.
If the indicator lamps are on:
DTC is activated.

Deactivating DTC
Press the button again: the DSC indicator lamps
go out.

Deactivating both DTC and DSC
Press the button for at least 3 seconds: the DSC
indicator lamps in the display elements come
on. The Dynamic Traction Control DTC and
Dynamic Stability Control DSC are both deactivated.
There will be no more stabilizing interventions.
Interventions (differential lock*) in braking
occur to improve propulsion when drive wheels
are rotating unevenly, even when the DSC is
deactivated.

Activating DSC
Press the button again: the indicator lamps go
out.

 

It appears that these instructions refer to vehicles equipped with a "DTC" button. As noted in my sig, I have a 2010 Justa. The only buttons it has near the shifter are "SPORT" and "DSC". The only option seems to be to run the stability and traction control together or turn them both off, at least on the model I have, equipped as it is.

So, back to my original post.....Is anyone aware of a mod that allows the traction control to be operational while the DSC is turned off?

(Ice autocrossing would go a lot better that way.)

DOC

 

If you don't have the DTC button, are you sure that you do in fact have DTC?

 

Having driven in snow and ice, I can assure you that I have traction control (i.e. under power, the brakes chatter loudly and the lights flash madly on the dash [hate that]), though I can't be sure how "dynamic" it may be.

DOC

 

If you don't have the DTC button, you don't have traction control. It is an extra option you would have had to pay for.

 

That's just the ASC part. Anti-slip. If you had an 07 or 08 without the upgraded DSC (stability) your button would say ASC. ASC is built into DSC.

If you put one front wheel on glare ice and floored it you would go nowhere as the differential would be spinning the wheel on the ice and the ASC would cut the engine power to stop the slipping wheel.

If you repeated with the test with DTC, the brake on the spinning wheel would engage to allow the differential to apply power to the wheel that has traction.

And, of course, it is possible they put the wrong button assembly in your console at the factory.

 

Traction control on my car is obviously the "plan vanilla" kind that utilizes the ABS system. When one front wheel significantly exceeds the speed of the others, the brake on that wheel is momentarily applied to return it to the speed of the others. You can hear a similar loud "chatter" as occurs when the ABS is working to stop wheel lock under hard braking.

On this car, the dashboard lights up to also alert you to this activity

It is obvious from the dynamics that the car has a simple open diff. I doubt that engine power is also being cut (hardly has any anyway), but I suppose it could, a little.

BTW, having laid out an ice autocross course, the DSC really works, though it is loud and clunky in operation. However, it is MUCH slower than running without it because so much power is negated by the braking. Coming out of slow corners, though it would be faster to HAVE some traction control. (I tried turning the DSC off going in, then turning it on at the apex, very hard to do.

DOC

 

I'm pretty sure your only option is to have the DSC on or off. There is no separate DTC for you to have active without the DSC.

 

YES!!

That's why I posted to ask if there is a MOD anyone knows of that allows ONLY the traction control to be active.

DOC

 

You don't have traction control to be able to make it the only thing active. The MINIs that have traction control can turn it on and off independently of the DSC, so there is no need for a mod to do that.

 

If you really read the information posted and actauly look at your manual you will find that the DCS and DTC button are the same Button. (look at the pictures)

Also of note is that if you read the paragraph from above
You will see that both can be turned off. Or by reading the preceding paragraphs to this quoted one you cat turn them off separately.

But one note for you. You will also see an asterisk next to the line about DTC
This means that DTC may not be installed in your car. "*" items in the manual means it is an optional or country specific item.

Also of note for you is that on the 2010 models have ELSD. ELSD uses brake action to simulate a Limited Slip Differential. This is also an optional item that you may or may not have.

 

My car does not have a DTC button. It did appear from the manual that there may not be a discrete DTC "button", but like many sections, it is a bit ambiguous. The car build sheet does not mention installation of DTC. The instructions reference DTC 'lights". My car does not have any lights labeled "DTC", though it does have light positions on the tach that are unused, presumably for the DTC option.

I will assume at this point that no one here is aware of a mod that disables DSC while keeping traction control in effect on my car, other than by upgrading to the electronics from a car equipped with both DSC and DTC.

Guess I'll try the forums that cater to people who autocross these cars. Otherwise, I will need to rig up a steering wheel or gear lever mounted switch to allow more easily turning off DSC on corner entry and then turning back on at the apex.

Thanks again for all the input.

DOC

 

I think you should have bought a car that came equipped with DTC. It sounds like at this point you are planning to install DTC (I'm really not even sure DTC can be retrofitted)?

I'd be interested to hear from folks who autocross as to whether they use the DSC or not during events. Or whether there would be any benefit to it. I know on the track or during spirited driving, I turn my ASC off as I don't want it interfering.

 

The e-diff is installed as part of the DTC option, and is always on even if you turn DTC off. Hence, when I autocross I turn both DSC and DTC off. But then I don't autocross on ice. DTC *might* be helpful then.

DSC is a huge detriment when autocrossing.

 

HS,

So the e-diff provides limited slip action with both DSC and DTC disabled?

BTW, DSC slows you up even on ice. But, it would be nice to have more than one wheel drive on corner exit on ice.

DOC

 

Yes, the e-diff is always on. It applies the brake to the front wheel that is spinning faster than the other. But non-JCW cars not equipped with DTC don't have the e-diff.

http://www.miniusa.com/#/learn/FACTS...Top_Features-m

 

So how does that differ from plain vanilla traction control that you would find on most ABS equipped cars these days?

DOC

 

There's 3 different programs and you're confusing them.

DSC(includes ASC) this is the Stability control. You press the button once, and the Stability control goes off while ASC(anti-slip AKA traction control) remains activated. You have to press the button for 3 seconds to turn BOTH off.
So, if your car has DSC, you have Stability control AND Traction control, and you can turn off both or just the first one.

Note that ASC is a traditional traction control which cuts engine power to avoid losing traction, there are Mini's that don't have DSC(optional in One and Cooper models) but they do have ASC, which i think has been always standard in the whole Mini range of models.

DTC is the e-diff, which simulates an LSD using the brakes to improve traction. It doesn't cut power like traction control does.
This one is available if your car has the DTC option, and it's always ON.

Short version:

If your car has DSC, you can run:
DSC ON, ASC ON.
DSC OFF, ASC ON (press once)
DSC OFF, ASC OFF (press 3 seconds)

If your car has DTC, you can run:
DSC ON, ASC ON, DTC ON.
DSC OFF, ASC ON, DTC ON (press once)
DSC OFF, ASC OFF, DTC ON (press 3 seconds)

All Mini/BMW models work this way.