I've driven stick a couple times in parking lots, and now I'm doing real driving in my new MINI (got it Saturday).

It kills me when it jumps when I stall, which I have done plenty of. Just curious how bad this is for the MINI, and I was wondering if anyone has any general tips for not abusing the clutch.

One thing that I'm wondering about is the way that I reverse. I bring the clutch half way out, give it some gas, and just kinda keep the clutch out half way the whole time. I have a feeling this isn't the greatest method, but I'm looking for opinions/tips.

I've gotten light years better in the past couple of days (after lots of embarrassment), and I can't describe how much fun I've had getting up to 6th (while staying under 4500 rpms, of course )

One other question before I forget...what is your hill tactic...e-brake, just go quickly, something else?

Anyway, tips/comments/anything else are very welcome.

 

When I was first learning to drive manual I always found the best way to find the 'biting point' of a clutch was on a hill. Obviously I wouldn't do it on too steep a hill with other objects close behind you if you're still learning and unsure of yourself but it's definitely the best way to learn how to keep your car stationary on an incline with absolutely no use of a brake. Once you've mastered this you'll never stall your car again during normal take off or general driving.

 

Oh sorry, to answer your question about a general hill tactic for taking off, firstly find the biting point of your clutch and slowly release your handbrake whilst simultaneously gently giving it some gas. Smooth every time.

 

Good questions, definitely some things I would like to hear the answer to as well. This was my first manual car and didn't have much experience. After 6 months I finally have gotten a really good hang of it, smooth, no stalls.

For the reversing, I somewhat do the same thing, but I never reverse that much of a distance, once I get going, I usually just put the clutch in all the way and sort of roll out rather than holding it halfway the whole time. I've never had to go a long distance and actually let the clutch out while reversing.

As for the hill, once you get used to the engagement point it will come pretty easy, I live in the midwest so little hills but they do come up. I haven't had a problem but I have tried to parking brake method just for practice. Basically pull hand brake to the first notch. Then do as normal and as soon as you start moving forward, release the handbrake. As far as I know, this is okay and you don't have to do it before you start moving forward. If you did, seems to defeat the purpose of the handbrake itself.

As for clutch wear, the only advice I've really heard is not riding it, resting your foot on it while driving. Or holding the clutch in at the light the whole time. One thing I've noticed that is a good way to see if you're burning your clutch is to turn the heat all the way up and blast the fan. You'll smell it, although harder to do in the summer.

Good luck and have fun. I remember driving home about 1 hour to bring my car home. I took the back roads and stalled a couple times, but I made it safely. You'll get the hang of it, it really does start to become second nature at some point and you won't stall anymore. I would have never believed it until it happened to me, but you develop the reaction to push in the clutch when you feel the slightest rumble.

 

Quick note: keeping the clutch fully depressed while the car is stopped (engine running) will not cause any harm at all to your clutch.

 

When I go in reverse, like the other guy said I let the clutch engage/disengage to keep the car moving. I rarely use the gas pedal once the car starts to roll backwards. Idle + clutch = enough for reverse or driving into the garage.

On the hill, I don't use the handbrake. My left foot has learned the clutch engagement point and it is just a second nature now. But when I am stopped on a slight hill and the light isn't gonna change for a while, I engage the handbrake and take the foot off the brake pedal.

Keep on practicing and eventually you will not have any more anxiety in any situation and you will be just having fun.

Sport button helps.

 

postlapsaria,

what kind of Mini do you drive? If you have the DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) feature, then it will hold the car from rolling back on hills for about 3 seconds. This will allow you to engage the clutch and get the car moving forward. It's a very nice feature if you're just learning how to drive a clutch.

The best way to learn how to learn drive on a hill is to find a parking lot that has a slight uphill grade. Go out on a Sunday, or when there is no one in the parking lot, and practice. School parking lots are great for this type of practice. The more you become familiar with the clutch of the car, the easier it is to drive.

Good Luck!

 

My mini was also my first experience at driving a stick and it really does become second nature. However you will still stall out from time to time. It happens much less freqeuntely and the panic is gone but it still does happen.

As far as reverse goes I just handle it like first gear and let the clutch all the way out even if it is a short distance. For hills I have never had to use the ebrake I just let off slightly and go and I have been up some pretty steep hills!!

It is good to just practice but, be weary of doing it in empty parking lots. My bf got a reckless driving ticket and a trespassing ticket for doing that even though the parking lot was empty. They accused him of drag racing and brought in 5 cops even though there were no other cars!!!

 

I could use a learning stick. Having to read all this crap for the new job sucks.

 

Sorry if this seems too basic, but when I teach people to drive a manual car, the first thing I tell them is this:

When starting from a stop with a manual transmission, most people don't realize that it's the clutch that controls your speed, not the gas pedal. So when you start learning to drive it, it's the clutch you need to be worried about. Start out with short little bursts to let you figure out where the catch point is. Slowly let out the clutch till the car starts to move, then push the clutch back in. Rinse and repeat, till you're comfortable with how fast the car starts to move from a stop. You should always know that if you start to stall, just push the clutch back in to save it.

 

I'm not a driving instructor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night... so here's my $0.02

Stalling the engine is not going to damage it (unless you are on a railway track and the train is coming). However, slipping the clutch at high RPM will wear it out quickly. It's possible to grind down a clutch and kill it in a few days of reckless driving. Replacing a clutch costs much $$$ so go easy on it. I'm a visual person so I find imagery helps. The clutch and flywheel are two spinning plates that have to be clamped solidly together (the clutch pedal fully up, foot off the pedal) for there to be zero slip i.e. no rubbing. When starting from stop, upshifting, downshifting i.e. anytime the clutch pedal is between fully down and fully up, there will be clutch wear. The idea is to keep to an absolute minimum the amount of time the clutch is slipping and to minimize the RPM differential between the clutch and the flywheel while it's slipping. If possible seek out professional driving instruction, there are a lot of bad habits one can pick up learning from family/friends. In the meantime, here are some tips:

- Driving the car in reverse (or forwards) with the clutch pedal halfway depressed while giving throttle will wear the clutch. The flywheel is basically grinding down the clutch. But it's OK for short distances e.g. parking. I assume you're releasing the clutch to the engagement point so the car starts to roll, then push the clutch to the floor and basically let the car coast backwards, controlling movement with the brake. For a longer distance e.g. reversing down a long driveway, it's best to release the clutch pedal all the way. The car can go very slow in reverse without stalling, even with zero throttle.

- This is how a lot of clutch wear occurs: The car is at a full stop. The driver starts releasing the clutch pedal while at the same time giving a lot of throttle to prevent the engine from stalling. As the clutch engages, the car starts rolling forwards slowly, and to get the car moving faster, the anxious driver applies even more throttle, even though the clutch pedal is still only halfway released i.e. the clutch is slipping. The air is filled with the aroma of burnt clutch.

- Think fast and smooth, don't just drop the clutch, especially when the engine is at high RPM. The sudden engagement of the engine to the transmission sends a shock through the drivetrain and could unsettle the balance of the car (bad in slippery conditions). While on the subject, try to avoid quickly slamming the gear stick into each gear, let the synchros do their job. Engines and transmissions are even more expensive to replace than clutches.

- Assuming no DSC, hill starts using the handbrake saves the clutch and also takes away the fear of rolling backwards. Ask anybody who drives in San Francisco.

- When slowing down, use the brakes to slow the car down, then downshift to be in the proper gear. Using only engine braking sounds zoomy, but puts extra wear on the engine and clutch (brake pads are cheaper to replace than either). Rev matching the downshift will put even less wear on the clutch and will keep the car more stable in slippery conditions.

- The only time the left foot is on the clutch pedal is during a gear change. Otherwise it should be on the dead pedal. The weight of the foot on the pedal can be enough to partially release pressure on the clutch. At long stops, releasing the clutch pedal in neutral will save wear and tear on the throwout bearing.

 

Just chiming in....
This is true, it will not harm your clutch, however fully depressing your clutch at a light or for periods of time when it is not required could damage/wear out the throughout bearing after some time.
I'm new here, hope you don't mind me posting..love the board..

 

lol

 

hill tactic? My MCS holds the brake for me for 2seconds on any hill. Does your MINI not do this?

EDIT: Ooops didn't realize this feature was tied in with DSC only.

 

Wow, Smackboy, that was an amazing description! It really helped. I'm not getting a manual transmission mini, but I do have a 1987 suzuki samurai for off-roading and I just learned to drive stick in the past few months, and I never never knew how that manual transmission actually worked. I'm definitely a visual person so I had no clue what depressing the clutch actually did to the components of the vehicle...all I knew was that you had to do it to change gears! Great descriptions.

 

Like others have said, once you learn the catch point in the clutch, everything becomes easy peasy. Get good enough and there are things you can do in everyday driving that reduce clutch wear. Ex: learning how to pull out from idle by giving it more gas and releasing the clutch farther, keeps the engine at idle and you pull out at the same speed and can fully engage the clutch quicker because the car doesn't have to get up to much speed to match engine speed. Also heel-and-toe driving in every day situations helps extend clutch life, by matching revs and not down shifting by simply releasing the clutch.

As far as hills: eventually you'll get good enough where you can move your foot from the brake to the accelerator fast enough and find the catch point in the clutch fast enough that the car wont roll back and you can have a smooth take off. Guarantee this works even on steep hills, you may have to floor it but with proper clutch control you wont over-rev the engine.

 

No problemo

Here are pictures http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch1.htm

 

Quick question for the minimizing time that your clutch is not in or out:
- I used to have a bit of jerking when shifting to 2nd and 3rd; however, with recent experience I notice I have been letting it the clutch out a lil slower and more smoothly when right near the catch point, w/ no throttle. This has made the transition a lot smoother than before, but I think technically there is more time with the clutch neither in nor out. Since it feels smoother, I'm thinking it's better, but could I be wrong? Just wanted to check.

 

There are probably lots of ways to shift smoothly and the way described works, but here are my $0.02. When it comes down to it, the clutch is a wear item and designed to be replaced eventually (hopefully at over 50,000+ miles). Slipping the clutch is unavoidable and the cost of smooth driving is some clutch wear. That being said, slowing down the engagement of the clutch will smooth out the jerkiness, but that addresses the symptoms not the cause. The reason for jerkiness is that the flywheel speed (at the engine) is different than the clutch plate speed (at the transmission). When the clutch is disengaged for a gear change, the throttle controls the flywheel speed and the wheels turning on the road determine the clutch plate speed. In theory if the flywheel and clutch plate were spinning exactly the same RPM, a driver could pop the clutch in and out and wouldn't feel a thing. The way to minimize jerkiness is to match the revs when shifting by giving just enough throttle to spin the flywheel at about the same speed as the clutch plate. You mentioned that you shift with no throttle. IIRC, engine idle speed is around 800-900 rpm which will be slower than the clutch plate in almost any situation except when coming to a dead stop. Most people probably drive somewhere between 1500-6000 RPM through the gears. However, if slowing down to a dead stop e.g. approaching a red light, then downshifting near idle speed will work because the car is going so slow. How does a driver rev match? There are lots of ways, but I find the simplest way is to SLOWLY increase the throttle as the clutch is engaging. Imagine a taut piece of string tied to the left foot, strung over the steering column, and tied to the right foot. When the left foot is fully down, the string is taut and pulls right foot fully up. BTW, when the left foot is fully up, the right foot is NOT fully down on the throttle (unless you are racing)! As the left foot comes up, the right foot can depress the throttle a bit more. Only experience can determine how much throttle is needed to smooth out the jerkiness. A good rev match can be heard and felt. The engine RPMs won't suddenly change if the revs are matched. Too much throttle and the car will jump forward, not enough throttle and the car lurches as it slows down. On upshifts, rev matching is easier and less important because the gear ratio will mean that the clutch plate will be spinning more slowly in the higher gear than at the lower gear, therefore less throttle required. On downshifts, rev matching is more important and trickier because the clutch plate will be spinning faster in the lower gear, therefore more throttle is required. And if it's downshifting to go faster e.g. overtaking on the freeway, a LOT more throttle is needed. Hope this helps.

BTW, this is all KISS. It just looks really complicated because I have verbal diarrhea and once I get going I can't stop typing. None of what I describe is double-clutching or heel-toe or power-shifting or any of those racing techniques. Don't even get me started on those

 

smackboy1:

Believe me when I say that what you are stating is not verbal diarrhea at all, but very good and concise information. It is very much appreciated.

I've been driving stick for more than 20 years, but I have never ever been able to articulate how exactly it all works or how best to do it, but you've encapsulated it all very well in your posts. Good stuff.

 

Two good jobs Smackboy.

It is hard to wear out a clutch starting out, but it happens.

The easiest way to eat a clutch is by keeping your foot on the pedal between shifts or when you are just cruising down the road.
Either put your left foot on the dead pedal or in the passenger seat, but don't rest it on the clutch!

 

I used to do the give throttle while letting off the clutch on an upshift, but had a hard time getting it smooth which I attributed more to how I released the clutch. I don't even think my release is that slow, but not sure how to determine exactly.

 

I just love my 6-Speed Mini Cooper. I smile everyday while driving and going through the gears makes me feel alive and in control.