In talking to various Mini Advisors, I get the feeling the Clubman will go away after the Countryman comes around.
Opinions?

 

Unlikely. BMW/MINI didn't put all the dollars into engineering, manufacturing infrastructure and marketing to put a car into the market for only 2-3 years.

They have product roadmaps that likely go 5-10 years out. They obviously knew they would be putting the Countryman on the market long, long before the Clubman ever hit the streets.

The Clubman fits a great niche for those of us who have no use for a 4WD mini-SUV but still want a touch more legroom/utility than a MINI Cooper delivers.

 

We might end up with one of each . Wife just bought a 2010 VW Tiguan, but after seeing the Countryman she really likes that

 

Until we get an idea of the effect of a higher ride height, increased weight, longer wheelbase, and all wheel drive, there's no way to know if the Countryman will meet the performance expectations of MINI owners.

The general consensus is that the Clubman gives up very little in comparison to the Coupe, not sure if that will be the case with the Countryman.

For now, all is just speculation...

 

There's no way it will feel like we're used to a MINI feeling. It will be a different car; not better or worse, but definitely not a "pure" MINI.

It's a great market for them to stretch into is the only reason why they're doing it, of course.

 

IIRC I did read somewhere (book? interview?) about how the roadmap is clear for the hardtop, the convertible, the countryman (launch) and if you remember the roadmap includes the upcoming coupe/roadster... it is in THAT context where there is no known clubman stays-doesnt-stay, because you can imagine someone saying that from the hardtop (single, no kids) you just jump to countryman (kids).

Now, in my view...

MINI: NO, THAT IS NOT TRUE.

The convertible & roadster for the niche
The hardtop for single families
The clubman for small families, urban
The countryman for suburban, larger families

Although in my honest opinion, I wouldn't have launched the Countryman, and let BMW have the X1 slotted there.

 

The Countryman's achilles heel is the lack of 5 passenger seating. This can jeopardize its long term success in the US after all the hoopla about it goes away..

I think the R60 is nothing but a joke and a travesti posing as a MINI. Remove the MINI badges from the car and this thing can be mistaken for anything else (Hyundai, BMW, Nissan, Chevy, KIA you name it).

Gosh, it isn't being made in England but Austria!.

In my estimation, all that MINI should have done was to stretch the Clubman another 2-3 inches, add a pair of full size rear doors and call it a day. But that was not good enough to the greedy MINI marketeers and company executives. They had to re-invent the wheel and come up with another "Crossover" like if we already don't have enough of these in the market.

As much as I love MINIs, if BMW decides to kill off the Clubman for this beast, the MINIs we have now would be our last. As a matter of fact, in a couple of years we may go to a BMW 328i Sportswagon that is 1000 better car than any Countryman for a remarkably close margin in price.

MINI has been hijacked by group think mentality and savvy marketeers. This is not the same company of 8-10 years ago.

 

ClubmanS, I don't think the R60 is a joke and a travesty but I do have a problem with its country of manufacture, lack of 5 seats, and that really stupid center rail system. I'm thinking the Clubman will still be a big seller due to its skosh more rear seating room and larger boot than the hardtop but still delivering about the same in performance. Yep, I believe the Clubman is here to stay.

 

I don't have a problem with its country of manufacture - it means it might be made better than a lot of MINIs are!

 

Hard to say. All depends on sales, but I don't see the Countryman eating that many Clubman sales. To me they're very different vehicles. Of course, I don't spend all day talking to prospective Mini buyers, the MAs may know better than I. I do think they're missing the boat by not making it a 5-seater.

 

Austria means better quality in my mind, the X3 was BMW's highest (build) quality vehicle according to BMW built in the same factory. 328 sportswagon isn't close in price, I checked out several last year all around $37-38 with not many options and the gas milage isn't close. Mini can't grow sales and profit without a bigger product line (bigger in number of models) because of their pricing strategy.

 

In recent introductory articles the price estimate for the Countryman mentions a base of about $30,000.

That alone should keep the Clubman a viable option, since the base MSRP for the Clubman is about $21k.

$21k to $30k is a 45% price premium for the Countryman.

MINI may be pricing this one right out of their market! I consider my MINI to be an affordable "entry level" sporty car. There's nothing entry level about a small $30k SUV, and your $30k will not even get you all wheel drive!

Given the pricing on most MINI options and accessories, a well equipped Countryman could easily go to $40k, which is a ridiculous price for any MINI, unless it's a "Mr. Fusion" model.

 

No. You have to be aware of the market realities. Ignore that at your peril. That's why there is an X5, X3, Cayenne, etc.

 

Just wondering, how do you feel that the Countryman is a lot different than a Clubman?

IMO MINI should just offer All4 on the Clubman and call it a day.

 

IMHO I just don't see me EVER needing or wanting a Countryman even though I think it's a neat little car/truck/mini/jeep or something???? vehicle. If I want small I want small. If I want large I want large. If I want medium/4WD I buy a Subaru, lol. The Countryman is too "in between" the in between cars to fit very well anywhere. This is a car that truly lacks need if I have ever seen one. Too expensive and not useful.

 

I don't think it would be as functional. The rear diff will cost some cargo space in the back. That would detract from the increased space of the Clubman.

 

I don't understand the problem there as more than half the parts in a base MINI are made outside the UK anyway. The transmission is usually made in Germany or Japan, for example. My tires, although Goodyear branded, say "Made in Germany."

 

The price estimate of $30K byminiclubman is way high. Go on the Motoringfile website and read the question and answers by the product manager which explains the pricing. The base model is right in the middle between the Cooper and Convertible and the S Countryman will be a 6% premium over the base so someone do the math, I'm thinking maybe $27,500- $28,000 for an S Countryman with All4.

 

BMW13, if the Mini/MINI origin was Germany or Austria to begin with, I wouldn't have any problems at all. To me, the Mini/MINI heritage is still British. "Boot", "Bonnet", "Motoring", Union Jacks, and so on are a big part of that heritage. When the R60 is manufactured in Austria, the Mini/MINI heritage is no more. I would be proud to own a vehicle manufactured in Austria but not a MINI. I know many don't care but would MINI be as popular if they farmed out their production to Mexico, Brazil, Malaysia? To me, heritage means a lot and it also helps to keep our Mini/MINI culture alive. Lastly, I know a MINI sticker already shows Japan, England, and France, but what can you do?

 

There is no official pricing from MINI yet. I did some searching, and $30k was mentioned on a few sites, including this one:http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...tor+Authority)

If the Countryman does come in around $25k base instead of around $30k base, then it will have a much stronger chance of success. My estimate may be high, yours may be low, only MINI knows for sure...

 

I have seen the estimates of the Countryman starting at 30k, which I think is way too much. Only MINI knows for sure right now, but a price starting of anywhere from 27-29k for a bare bones base Countryman might not be out of the question.

MSRP Base Prices
Cooper $18,800
Clubman $20,450
Cooper Convert. $24,250
Countryman $28,050???

 

I'm sorry but I think the MINI brand is getting to far away from being a MINI. MINI's arent/ werent meant for carrying a family. They were built for racing. Anymore people are just getting MINI's because they are cute or its the new style. All I know is I love my R53 and plan on keeping it for quite some time.

 

They weren't originally built for racing they were modified for racing and they were cute long before they were racing. They were originally bought mostly because they were efficient, cheap, stylish and cute. I think all of those things are still the case even with the post 2002 MINI's.

And as for being "fast for racing" only the JCW version is "built for racing." The S model may be faster than the justa but compared to many other cars on the road the S is not that fast. Fun to drive and handles well yes, but not really "fast." Speaking of slow, have you driven a stock classic MINI???

 

I know I know but my point is they aren't built to carry a family. I wouldn't even consider buying a MINI if the intention was to a family. Yes I know that they are cute but when I try and talk to someone who has a MINI around my town they normally don't know what they are talking about. I'm just venting because I really don't like the clubmans looks and the countryman looks even worse. But that is just my opinion, I'm not trying to start anything

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I however personally like the looks of the Clubman and prefer it's slightly longer lines (this is the Clubman forum after all) over the stubby and bubbly MC.

But more than looks, most people in these hard times pick street cars with need in mind. The Clubman fits a need for small urban families like mine. I want fun, sporty, efficient, stylish, affordable for what you get and a little bit of room and the Clubman offers all of those things like few other cars in it's price range. Some come close but they lack the sporty or style (Honda Fit) or they lack the efficiency (Mazda 3).

The Countryman on the other hand (we agree) serves very little "need" compared to other cars on the road in it's price range. I am still trying to figure out WHY a person would need or want a Countryman at 30k+. All it really offers is 4wd (ONLY on the upgraded 34k model according to some articles) and weird style and in reality 99.9% of people don't need all wheel drive or weird style. All that said, I think it is neat looking but like I said, I would look to Subaru (more space, cheaper, 4wd, sporty) before the Countryman. Perhaps in the end, like the iPad, some people will buy the expensive Countryman despite the fact that it lacks major features and because of it's unique styling. Not me.