As a MINI owner in Alaska, I would jump on with an all-wheel-drive version in a heartbeat. To me, they're not building a "family" car (still a 4 seater), but competing within the colder markets.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Clubman and she gets around just fine in the snow. The only time I've had a problem is when there is too much snow. The Countryman would fix that problem by having an all-wheel-drive option and sitting higher off the ground. Which would unfortunately definitely affect the superb cornering of a MINI...

If I could have a small (yet bigger) all-wheel-drive MINI that still has fantasic handling and that like-no-other MINI feel, I would be one happy camper...and I would still keep my JCW Clubman for the dry road days.

 

...you fall into that .01% I wasn't talking about that might need 4wd, lol. Happy motoring up there in beautiful Alaska!

 

We do have some gorgeous twisties up here! I am in that small percentage...But I'm sure people in the northern states as well as the mountains could benefit from all-wheel-drive. Even the east coast, considering the recent weather... Yikes, they've got more snow than me!

 

These price estimates are completely contrary to what the MINI USA Product Manager told the Motoring File this week:

So, it's not finalized, but he said it will be priced between the Clubman and Cabrio.

This means that the Countryman Cooper will start at a max of ~$24k (Cooper Convertible MSRP), and that a Countryman Cooper S ALL4 will start at a max of ~$28k (Cooper S Convertible MSRP + 6%).

Personally, I see the Countryman market like this:

- For the people who are looking for subcompact car and are considering cars like the Fit, Civic, and Mazda 3, the MINI Cooper Hardtop or MINI Cooper Clubman are great alternatives that are typically smaller, more fun, and more efficient than the competitors.

- For the people who are looking for a small crossover like the CR-V, Rav4, Subaru Forrester, etc, the MINI Countryman Cooper is a great alternative that is smaller, more fun, and more efficient.

 

No, before you ask that, ask why a person would buy a $40k S Hardtop.

What you said is contradictory. You say that 99.9% of the people don't need AWD, yet you would buy a Subaru. And any model that you would buy would have AWD.

Note that EVERY car is a compromise. You balance different virtues in a way that you think will set you apart for others and that potential customers will like. And I have to tell you, a Subaru ain't no BMW.

 

I wouldn't mind having an AWD MINI. But I only want it for those few snow storms that we get. And as for a subaru I plan on getting a WRX when I get into the State Police, because of that reason of the MINI not handling well in the snow.

I also want to clarify what I said earlier. I do not hate the Clubman. The only real thing I do not like is the back of it. I cant even describe what it looks like. Its just like the new Mazda's. To me the front bumper looks like it is smiling and I think that looks hidious, however I still love Mazda's.

 

Particularly since Gen 1 models they have done nothing but get bigger...

 

+1

 

... and faster and lighter.

They'll keep making the Clubman as long as it sells. In the end the Clubman's future will be determined by its sales numbers and profitability. However I'm not so optimistic about the Clubman's future because I do think the Countryman will cut into sales. Imagine if it were the other way around, that the Countryman came out first, and then the Clubman was introduced. I don't think there would have been talk about the Clubman causing the Countryman to be discontinued or even significantly impacting its sales.

 

Doesn't make any difference. The point is that they have gained enough size that it's almost like they have moved up a class.

 

I have had an 02 cooper S, 08 Clubman, normally aspirated. I will get a Countryman, to replace my 02 Volvo XC 70. I need a car that can get through it all!! It will be nice to get decent gas mileage which Audi/Volvo have seem to forgotten about. Of Course, Turbo for the high elevation;-)

 

My wife has an X3 which is ostensibly a 3 series on stilts. I don't have any experience of the 3-series but I must say that the X3 is very quick off the line and very agile for an SUV. Let's hope the Countryman is equally so.

If the Clubman IS to be phased out then perhaps it will become a collectors item - it fits my needs perfectly (2 kids - mostly suburban/rural driving/no snow) as I'm sure it does many others.

 

...and vice-versa...

 

Personally, I have no interest in that...

 

I really believe the Clubman will go away pretty soon. Give it a year or so after the Countryman hits the market.
I just can't see how they can co-exist.
Anyone looking for a "bigger" MINI will most likely get the Countryman especially if the price difference will be pretty negligible.

 

99% of people don't need 4wd in 2010 in the Continental US or any other first world country. Fact. Most of the people who have it drive like they need it but they just need to slow down and chill out. The majority of cars I see in ditches during snow storms and the like are SUV's and 4wd vehicles.

Yes, every car is a compromise and the Countryman is a MAJOR compromise compared to almost any other car it can be compared to. It isn't big enough to be an SUV of any kind and it has almost half the boot space of a Honda Fit. The CRV has almost triple the boot space. It isn't agile enough to be a MINI cooper OR Clubman or GTI. It isn't cheap enough to be a Honda Fit or even a Subaru. It isn't big enough to fit 5 people comfortably if at all like most 4wd cars can. It only has 4wd if you pay more for it. I just don't see it jumping to the top of many people's must have list. Just get a jeep.

I am not one of those people who pretend that my MINI is a BMW so I won't comment on your "Subaru ain't no BMW" comment.

SO will YOU be buying a Countryman? Why or why not?

 

My God, you live in Queens. Who needs an SUV in Queens? Before I bought the MINI, I had an Isuzu Trroper for 15 years. I didn't go off-road, but I do live half-way up a fairly steep hill. It's not unusual that I would be coming home before they plowed. Unfortunately it requires that you live with 15/18mpg all year round.

Same is true for for the RAV4, the CR-V, all Subarus (and no, just because it isn't an option doesn't mean that you don't pay for it).

It benefits from BMW design, development and build quality. Has nothing to do with pretend; it is fact. BMW enjoys a reputation as a top rated premium car builder. You think this didn't rub off on MINI?

Maybe; more specifically my wife might. I probably would not as I value the performance of my JCW. However, if this were earlier in my life when my kids were still at home, it would get serious consideration. 4 seats would have been a perfect fit and AWD would have been welcome.

I wouldn't have given more than a moment's consideration to the vehicles that you mentioned. The CR-V and the RAV4 are out because you can't get a manual transmission (I've never owned an automatic). The Fit is anemic at 2500lb and 117 hp. No thanks. Anyway, let's see how it all plays out.

 

Just read part two of article featuring question and answer session re:Countryman...motoringfile.com
Leads me to more speculation on the R56/R55 future..
Few more years, maybe.
Interviewee states there is a lot of numbers between R60 and R69
Does that mean development off the R60 platform?

 

i don't know what you read into it, but its pretty clear from it that the Clubman will be on the way out shortly.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2010/02/...tryman-part-2/

 

It would not surprise me if they stretched the next gen hardtop to about the size of the current Clubman and then dropped the Clubman altogether. Unfortunately, this has been the natural progression of cars(larger and heavier). Case in point is the current Civic, which is about the size of a 4th gen Accord (94-97).

 

While I agree that most cars experience model bloat with each new iteration, I think MINI realizes that's not the way to go with the MINI Hardtop. The 2nd Gen is actually lighter than the 1st Gen (marginally, but the point is it didn't gain significant weight)... and the 3rd gen is supposedly going to maintain that philosophy. MINI can make larger variants (Club any Country), but the "flagship" WILL remain small and light, IMO. For one, that's the whole point of the brand... and two, how could they possibly make a Clubman-sized Cabrio? :D

 

I feel like the Countryman is like the iPad -- it offers little to the market that isn't already there. (Or in other words, it is trying to create a middle ground market that no one really needs.) Sure, there's AWD and a higher ride height for offroading, but there is a small percentage of people that really need that over something that is already offered. The Clubman is pretty much the same car: it seats just as many people (four), is just as fun (if not funner, but who knows yet?), and looks just as quirky as the Countryman. With the exception of those two aforementioned things, it doesn't look like the Countryman offers much more...

But honestly, people are going to buy the Countryman because it is there. I feel bad for the Clubman because I believe the Countryman is going to severely cut into its sales and spell the end for it. That's not because the Clubman is a bad car, but look at it this way: would you go for a Clubman knowing a Countryman isn't that much more expensive? It's bigger and rides higher and can off-road!

I'm not sure what MINI is thinking, but I sure hope that the Clubman doesn't die out because of the Countryman. It's the first MINI I truly fell for.

Also, there was someone who mentioned MINIs as being a "bang for the buck" kind of car. I have to disagree because the MINI is actually very expensive for what it is. But that's probably a discussion for another thread.

 

I wouldn't think of buying a Countryman over a Clubman were it available when I bought my Clubman. SUVs are of zero interest to me, and I think there are many who feel the same way. I don't want to look like a soccer mom when I'm a single active guy, you know? The Countryman looks like a cute, boring suburban car to me, whereas the Clubman has a high "cool" factor to it that the Countryman completely lacks. And there's no way in hell that the Countryman will handle like a Cooper or Clubman. Period.

(Pssst -- I agree with you that the MINI is expensive for what it is.)

 

I like the idea of a Countryman, with three kids, it is the only way the family can travel in a MINI. I also like to have the option of increased traction of AWD/4wd for winter travel. Probably not needed most of the time, but the handful of times it is, it is priceless. I like that it is relatively small (looks quite a bit smaller than the "competition" mentioned, which will invariably lead to much better fuel economy than those as well. I love driving our "new" MINI, but mostly drive my big fulltime 4wd, Land Cruiser, with 3 differential lockers, etc... so take my thoughts with a grain of proverbial salt A Countryman could let me put the LX/LC out of daily driver mode.

 

^^^Bingo. This is exactly my point and complaint about the Countryman. I could see someone wanting it, just not needing it really. But like flatlander said, people buy cars because they want them and not so much because they need them. I agree. Although not so much these hard financial days.

Bingo again.

It does but I wouldn't call BMW the paragon of reliability. A paragon of design yes, but not one of reliability. Some good and some bad rubbed off on the MINI. It seems the more premium a car becomes the less reliable it becomes. That kinda contradicts the concept of "premium build quality."

The one thing I will give the Countryman is that it may very well be the most fuel efficient 4wd vehicle on the road so that is a HUGE plus for those who can sacrifice significant space/capacity loss perhaps like flatlander.

But in the end and ONLY IMHO, it just doesn't look or seem like a MINI to me. The Clubman was stretching it a bit but still in the same Country while the Countryman is lost in space. The Countryman is not a MINI. It's a BMW.