R52 2007 R52 S Top Won't go Down
#26
07-18-2019, 12:10 AM
1st Gear
Sorry for the hiatus. I finally had time tonight to mess with this some more.
I checked the ground bus under the driver seat. Perfect shape. Clean as a whistle with no corrosion.
Next I reset the cable actuators, and as predicted my connection to ground on pin 9 was good now.
Finally, I performed the window reset:
Pulled battery for 30 minutes
Reconnected battery
Started car
Cycled windows twice
No luck when I tried the convertible top. Same issue as before. Sunroof opened fine, but no window drop, no latch opening, and no convertible movement.
Tomorrow I will jump 12V to the indicated pins to force unlock and top motion. I will report back with my findings.
I checked the ground bus under the driver seat. Perfect shape. Clean as a whistle with no corrosion.
Next I reset the cable actuators, and as predicted my connection to ground on pin 9 was good now.
Finally, I performed the window reset:
Pulled battery for 30 minutes
Reconnected battery
Started car
Cycled windows twice
No luck when I tried the convertible top. Same issue as before. Sunroof opened fine, but no window drop, no latch opening, and no convertible movement.
Tomorrow I will jump 12V to the indicated pins to force unlock and top motion. I will report back with my findings.
Good luck!
#27
07-18-2019, 06:47 AM
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My guess is the Hall sensor in the top? Maybe the wires going to the top are chaffed?
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-top-woes.html
Post #9
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-top-woes.html
Post #9
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#28
07-18-2019, 06:56 AM
No worries! Excellent! Still odd that you're not getting any status at all... I'm thinking it very well could be a pump issue... I'm not positive if a low hydraulic level will give you a red blinking indicator, OR just simply not do anything... I do have a spare module if you want to try that as well!
Good luck!
Good luck!
#29
07-18-2019, 10:47 AM
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Good day! Apologies for not getting back sooner!
So, I'm thinking there is a break in the wire? The micro switch is working, when triggered manually... but no good ground at the pin? Hmm! *thinking*
The lack of a blinking red light has me stumped! It blinks to indicate there is a reason the top isn't going down, thus the top doesn't move....... Hmmmmmmmm!
Let's cycle the actuators for the locks first... the one that is giving you issues (pin 9) is right by the module... that black box on an angle with the cable coming from it... you can jumper 12v to pin 13(THIRTEEN) to operate both sides, OR just pull on the connector down to move just that side cable which will cycle the switch... Recheck pin 9 ground.... Ohhhhhh, I probably shouldn't say this, but in my attempts to fix mine, I actually forgot to plug in the module when I pushed the button to test it once..... So, yea.... Ummm!
Let's try to reset the windows when 9 is jumpered to ground.... Keep in mind, I do not recommend going full open on the top unless you confirm all other items are in place! Rear shelf is secured perfectly on all four points... both locking arms are secured closed in the trunk along the sides of the trunk... and the trunk is closed, just for GP... You may need to look up window reset cause I can't remember it perfectly... nevermind, I found it.... post#17... full battery reset and windows...
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ry-change.html
IF the window reset doesn't work, we might have a pump power issue or maybe a bad relay for pump opening...
After the window rest, try to work the top... I didn't need to do this, but mine may have been at the perfect spot (down and locked) when I plugged in the mod after my wire repair...
The following is just to test the top function! Again, make sure all points indicated above are correct... with OR without the sunroof open, jumper 12v to pin 1(ONE) until the locks open... then, when you can verify both arms are free from the windshield frame, jumper 12v to pin 11(ELEVEN) until the top moves... then jumper 11 again and watch it is opening smoothly! If anything looks out of place, pull the 12v! You are not doing high current stuff! You are operating the relays that are operating the top... I did everything I just said on an almost daily basis to keep using my top with the issue I had....
I have a spare mod if you want to try that as well....
Good luck! Fingers crossed the window reset works!
So, I'm thinking there is a break in the wire? The micro switch is working, when triggered manually... but no good ground at the pin? Hmm! *thinking*
The lack of a blinking red light has me stumped! It blinks to indicate there is a reason the top isn't going down, thus the top doesn't move....... Hmmmmmmmm!
Let's cycle the actuators for the locks first... the one that is giving you issues (pin 9) is right by the module... that black box on an angle with the cable coming from it... you can jumper 12v to pin 13(THIRTEEN) to operate both sides, OR just pull on the connector down to move just that side cable which will cycle the switch... Recheck pin 9 ground.... Ohhhhhh, I probably shouldn't say this, but in my attempts to fix mine, I actually forgot to plug in the module when I pushed the button to test it once..... So, yea.... Ummm!
Let's try to reset the windows when 9 is jumpered to ground.... Keep in mind, I do not recommend going full open on the top unless you confirm all other items are in place! Rear shelf is secured perfectly on all four points... both locking arms are secured closed in the trunk along the sides of the trunk... and the trunk is closed, just for GP... You may need to look up window reset cause I can't remember it perfectly... nevermind, I found it.... post#17... full battery reset and windows...
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ry-change.html
IF the window reset doesn't work, we might have a pump power issue or maybe a bad relay for pump opening...
After the window rest, try to work the top... I didn't need to do this, but mine may have been at the perfect spot (down and locked) when I plugged in the mod after my wire repair...
The following is just to test the top function! Again, make sure all points indicated above are correct... with OR without the sunroof open, jumper 12v to pin 1(ONE) until the locks open... then, when you can verify both arms are free from the windshield frame, jumper 12v to pin 11(ELEVEN) until the top moves... then jumper 11 again and watch it is opening smoothly! If anything looks out of place, pull the 12v! You are not doing high current stuff! You are operating the relays that are operating the top... I did everything I just said on an almost daily basis to keep using my top with the issue I had....
I have a spare mod if you want to try that as well....
Good luck! Fingers crossed the window reset works!
OK, we're making some progress.
I turned the ignition on (with the engine off).
I lowered all four windows, and then moved the top back to the sunroof position.
Next, I jumped pin 1 to 12V and the latches opened. Also, the red light now started blinking.
Finally, I jumped pin 11 to 12V and could hear the pump running, but nothing moved.
I tried several times going back and forth with the process, and never could get the top to move. Every time I jump pin 11, the pump runs, but no movement.
I'm guessing there are a couple issues:
1. Either the controller or a controller input is not moving the windows down, which keeps it from initializing the unlock and top down procedure
2. Issue with the pump (screw or fluid level) keeping the top from moving when the pump is activated. What is the correct setting on screw, and how do I check the fluid level in the pump?
Thanks for all the help so far!
#30
07-18-2019, 11:17 AM
So is there something in the coding of the controller module that will stop it proceeding if it detects an issue with the hydraulics (hardware or fluid level)? It seems that all the hardware up to cycling the pump works as intended if you can get them to trigger. It seems unlikely to work that way so that takes us back to a bum sensor input preventing it working right, but that should trigger the red flashing light on the button.
Any sign of hydraulic fluid getting sprayed all over the trunk? My brother had an issue with that in his golf ragtop that made a real mess:(
Dont know if the attached pdf offers anything you dont already know...
Fluid level in an R52 is basically the same as in this video for an R57
Any sign of hydraulic fluid getting sprayed all over the trunk? My brother had an issue with that in his golf ragtop that made a real mess:(
Dont know if the attached pdf offers anything you dont already know...
Fluid level in an R52 is basically the same as in this video for an R57
Last edited by Mineeee; 07-18-2019 at 11:31 AM.
#31
07-18-2019, 11:34 AM
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Thanks.
More progress has been made. The fluid level was good. I decided to tighten the screw on the hydraulic pump. It was about 1.5 turns out. Looks like someone has worked on the top before...
Once I tightened the pressure relief screw, I repeated the process for jumping pins 1 and 11, and IT WORKED!!! Once it was fully open, I removed power from pin 11 and used the car buttons to close the top. The closing went just fine. Top lifted, locked itself in place, and then closed the sunroof and windows.
Now, we're down to one problem... Why won't the BOM move from sunroof open to window down...then top unlock and open...
I guess it must be 1 of 3 things
1. bad sensor
2. bad wiring
3. bad BOM
I checked the wiring, and can't see any obvious breaks, chaffing, corrosion, etc. Any thoughts on how to check the other items? Is it now time to accept 08ragtop6s's offer of trying a different BOM?
More progress has been made. The fluid level was good. I decided to tighten the screw on the hydraulic pump. It was about 1.5 turns out. Looks like someone has worked on the top before...
Once I tightened the pressure relief screw, I repeated the process for jumping pins 1 and 11, and IT WORKED!!! Once it was fully open, I removed power from pin 11 and used the car buttons to close the top. The closing went just fine. Top lifted, locked itself in place, and then closed the sunroof and windows.
Now, we're down to one problem... Why won't the BOM move from sunroof open to window down...then top unlock and open...
I guess it must be 1 of 3 things
1. bad sensor
2. bad wiring
3. bad BOM
I checked the wiring, and can't see any obvious breaks, chaffing, corrosion, etc. Any thoughts on how to check the other items? Is it now time to accept 08ragtop6s's offer of trying a different BOM?
Last edited by duckranger; 07-18-2019 at 11:46 AM.
#33
07-18-2019, 02:54 PM
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Not sure, but did find this wealth of service info...
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...roof-soft-top/
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...roof-soft-top/
#34
07-18-2019, 08:05 PM
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...nvertible-top/
looks like pin 3 for the roof open sensor.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/r...le-top/Z5q0qYV
Last edited by Mineeee; 07-19-2019 at 05:45 AM.
#35
07-22-2019, 01:32 PM
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Thank you very much for the links to the diagrams. They were very helpful. I probed the BOM for the signal from the hall effect sensors for the sunroof. Both hall effect sensors work exactly as they should. When the sunroof is completely closed, neither sensor is closed to ground. when I open the sunroof a small amount, the sunroof closed sensor closes to ground. Once the sunroof gets to full open, the sunroof open sensor closes to ground. The functionality is exactly as it should be for these two sensors.
The next step is where we have issues. The third hall effect sensor on the list is for the latch opening. My roof won't progress to this step, so I can't check the progress of the latch hall effect sensor. I'm having trouble finding the next step in the process. If the hall effect sensor detects the sunroof open as it should, why do the windows not automatically roll down? Is the only option a K-Bus issue or BOM issue?
#36
07-22-2019, 01:38 PM
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So I decided to go check Pin 1, which is listed as "Power supply for Hall sensors". The voltage from Pin 1 to ground was 9.75V. Is that correct? Do the hall effect sensors operate at 10V, or should it be 12V? I could jumper 12V in there, but if it's supposed to be 10V, I don't want to damage the sensors.
#37
07-22-2019, 04:58 PM
1st Gear
So I decided to go check Pin 1, which is listed as "Power supply for Hall sensors". The voltage from Pin 1 to ground was 9.75V. Is that correct? Do the hall effect sensors operate at 10V, or should it be 12V? I could jumper 12V in there, but if it's supposed to be 10V, I don't want to damage the sensors.
I apologize for my absence here! I was with family all weekend... it looks like you've made impressive progress! Excellent!
I could send you my spare, just to rule that out.... but I think it is a step that isn't within parameters... "below 4Kph" or some other input from the GM giving the top module the "Go" code to open the windows and unlock the top...
The data bus works off ten volts... Or thereabouts.... So, that might be correct for the hall sensors...
I'll read up more on parameters near that step!
Cheers!
#39
10-06-2019, 07:44 PM
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Ok, so I never really fixed the problem,.but was cheating by applying 12v to the pins to unlatch the roof and drop the top. To close the top, I could use the regular button and it worked fine. Until today. Now it won't do ANYTHING.
I ride around today with the too down and put it back up fine this afternoon. Then I had to take the car to jump start a friend with a dead battery. After that, the top switch won't do anything. No lights, no sunroof open, nothing. I tried to follow the procedure for the emergency close, and I'm able to lift the top, but I can't even get the sunroof motor to manually move. It's like it's completely locked up. However, when I jumped the wires to open the top, it still opens fine.
Any thoughts on what's going on? Are there wires I can jump to close the top and the sunroof?
I ride around today with the too down and put it back up fine this afternoon. Then I had to take the car to jump start a friend with a dead battery. After that, the top switch won't do anything. No lights, no sunroof open, nothing. I tried to follow the procedure for the emergency close, and I'm able to lift the top, but I can't even get the sunroof motor to manually move. It's like it's completely locked up. However, when I jumped the wires to open the top, it still opens fine.
Any thoughts on what's going on? Are there wires I can jump to close the top and the sunroof?
#40
10-06-2019, 09:00 PM
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