Well.... not completely, anyway.

You guys know the cooper has two modes of tops -- sunroof, and complete top down.

Well, the second one -- complete top down -- works perfectly. It's the sunroof that has me concerned.

Here's the steps I take when I bring the top back up -- the top going down works perfectly.

1. Press button to bring top up.
2. Top comes up perfectly, the clips lock and the sunroof starts to roll in.
3. Sunroof stops halfway
4. All windows roll up

Obviously, the #3 concerns me... because it acts like there's an obstruction in the way, or thinks that the top is completely closed (when in fact it's not). To fix it, I've had to:

1. Open the sunroof all the way back and then attempt to close it again. Sometimes I've even had to push it as it closes for it to finally overcome the halfway point -- success rate for this is 60%.

2. For those times that the sunroof becomes completely unresponsive, I've had to open the sunroof motor cover and use my screw to close the sunroof.

What could be the issue? Flakey cable, or the motor going bad, or...?

Is there any way I can open the top to figure out the source of this issue?

Also, I've noticed that if I'm opening the top, and the sunroof is sliding back and someone opens the door, the sunroof stops moving and becomes completely unresponsive. The top won't go down, and there is no red light flashing on the button. At this stage, I'm forced to open the sunroof motor cover, roll the sunroof portion back, turn off the car and then back on, then commerce the rest of top down operation.

 

never dealt with these kinds of tops before, but sounds to be like a regulator!

 

I thought so too, but if that was the case, it'd show the problem when I am bringing the top down, or back up.
So far it only shows that problem when I bring the top up.

Still, worth a check. Where is the regulator located?

 

Thats how mine started acting before the mid-roof motor just died.
Before it completely died, it started blowing the fuse randomly.

I used to keep fuses with me & changed them out as needed, but now the motor is completely dead.

Word of caution. Using the hand crank method only works for so long. The metal used in the motor is very soft & soon after I started using the crank, the hole used started cracking & split in 3 spots, rendering the hand crank usless.

I don't have the money right now to replace the motor (very easy to do, just expensive) So I gutted the motor & rigged a new hand crank as a temporary mesure untill I purchase the new motor.

I don't use my top daily anymore, but sometimes I still need to drop the top for various reasons & this allows me to do that untill I fix it properly.

Hope that helps give some insight...good luck.

 

'Don't know if it'd help in your case, but what I do when I put the top up is to reach up with my left hand and just as the hook thingy is going into the hole at the corner of the window frame, I pull down to take some of the load off the motor and mechanisim. Yea, I'm only helping one side, but I think that helps the other side pull into place easier and then latch.

 

:(

That doesn't sound so good. I'm really hoping it's not the motor... but I managed to get into my mechanic computer and fired up AllData -- it said that there is five sensors in the convertible top -- two in the sunroof, one in the sunroof motor, and two on the back of convertible frame.

I'll be tearing apart the car this weekend looking for this sensor, because the top acts like there's something blocking the sensor.

Any other ideas? I'll check the relays later... turns out that I have to tear apart the left sidewall/trim to get access to the convertible relays.

 

Here's the story, take what you can from it. My drivers side rear window stopped working. I took it to the dealer and for $700 it was working again but the side effect which I didn't notice until weeks later was that the roof began to not work intermittently. Once in a while pushing the button for the sunroof didn't respond at all... When I slammed the door or drove over some railroad tracks it would work fine. It got worse and worse with time.

I went to a non-dealer shop and had him run the diagnostics... The codes said all of my hall sensors were not working... He suggested a new roof motor but would not guarantee that was the problem (it wasn't)...

I checked all the fuses and relays. No improvement. I took out the back seat, removed the panel (not too much fun) and plugged and unplugged the CVM module and the relays... I switched the position of the relays... Nope..
I found a used CVM module on ebay and tried it... nothing doing but I was lucking the parts guy took the CVM back. By this time I had removed the seat 3 times and can now get the panel out in about 5 minutes but my top was seldom working...

I started tracing the hall sensor harness... I found that their are "joints" in the harness where 3 wires go into one wire... wierd... I bought a hand mirror to trace the harness. Right near the rear window that the dealer had worked on, I felt a strange kink in the harness with my fingers. I straightened out the kink and the top worked about 80% of the time... I worked on the kink some more and now I'm at 100%... A new harness is about $200 but would be a tough install so I'm content... I use the sun roof every day and I am over the 4 week depression that was killing me... On some other websites I have read that dealers charge $1700-$2400 to track down this kind of thing and they replace everything.

Hope this helps someone...Having a non-working convertible in nice weather is unbearable.

 

Nice story, Axelhead!

Your method actually sounds promising, so I'm going to give it a go tomorrow. The harness probably isn't the issue, but I need an excuse to start looking for issues.

How did you open the side panels? Did you use a repair manual, or...?

 

My harness problem did not actually involve removing the panel but I'll go over that too so you can have extra fun. The key for me was that all 5 hall sensors weren't working which was a hint that the sensor harness was messed up... If a single sensor was broken why where all 5 reported as broken?

I have a 2005 mini for the record. The sensor harness can be found decending from the top down to the rear seat panel on the driver's side of the car. It has a thick protective cover on it. You can see it from the trunk with a flashlight by unlatching the trunk. You can also reach it when sitting in the back seat by reaching through top material with your hand. This is where my problem was.. When the thick protective cover ends, You can feel the unprotected wires. If you can remove the elastic things holding the top material, you can see some of the harness. I now believe there is a three way connection where the protective cover ends. You can try wiggling the harness there....

Assuming you have a different problem... Here's how to get the panel open.
I never removed it, just opened it so I could trance wire and fiddle with relays. I didn't use a manual although I would have if I had one. I should send you pictures but we'll try words first.... There is a Phillips head screw where the door closes.. You cannot remove it when the door is closed. Take that one out... There is another in the recess in the panel. Get that one too... Take the seat bottom out next..easy.. just lift it up from the front right corner first and then the left. There is a button like thing to remove in the panel next... You have to pull the seat back forward to see it. I used a needle nosed pliers to get the button. I pushed the rest out by reaching over the panel and pushing it out.

Now comes the hard part...You've got the lift the panel over the seat belt mechanism. I pulled out the seat belt and anchored it with a weight. If you don't, the seat belt will not let you lift up the end of the panel. If you can get the panel up and over the seat belt mechanism, you're home free. Flex out the panel and you can get to the relays, the cvm and the entire senor harness. I never got any further but I guess you could remove the whole panel somehow.

Putting the panel back has one more step.. I had to tap the center of the panel with a rubber mallet to get it to seat well in the middle as I lifted the panel over the seat belt mechanism.

Good luck...

 

Thanks for the detailed instruction! I've managed to open up the panel and found those harness that you mentioned. It seems fine from what I saw, and I didn't feel anything "strange" (but then again, I have no baseline to compare it to). I also tested the relays (was a tight fit, but I managed to squeeze in) and they came out fine.

But I now have a new problem!

The sunroof portion developed a new symptom... the top no longer halts in the center.

But it won't open all the way!

Steps I take:

1. Hold button to open the top
2. Sunroof recedes back
3. Sunroof is apparently "all the way back"
4. I release the button and repress it to open the entire top
5. Nothing happens.

At this point, I have to use the crank to move the sunroof back by 1-2 inches, THEN the top can retract.

This feels like a hall sensor failure. Would you agree with it?

 

If your mechanic ran the AllData and said your five hall sensors are all reporting ground or open circuit, it may be a loose wire. When my sun roof was flakey, it would stop in the middle and I would turn the car off, put the windows up and down and then it would work. Try slaming the drivers door hard or driving over railroad tracks when it gets stuck. (I wish I weren't kidding because these things worked for me).

If there is a short in the harness, any sensor can give false readings at anytime. My only suggestion is what worked for me. Sitting in the back seat on the drivers side, reaching through the roof cover and tracing the sensor harness to where the protective cover yields to unprotected wires. Give them a wiggle and try your roof again.

The complete harness sells for about $200 with 5 new sensors. Hope you don't have to go there. Maybe your mechanic can retest when you roof is working well?

 

Does anyone know where to get instructions on how to open the top fabric in order to access the hall sensors? Preferably free, but a cheap manual won't hurt either.

 

I just bought the service manual in digital form on Ebay for $8. It's a .5 GB pdf file. More info than I'll ever need. I fixed my hall sensor problem and everything was fine for 3 weeks... I now have a clicking problem with the sunroof... I have to hand assist it on opening but it closes fine... I'm thinking the clutch in the electric motor..

 

Could you please send me the link to the manual?

 

Anybody figure this out? My top closes but then the sunroof is stalling out in full open mode. If I help push it with my other hand that seems to help - sometimes... for now....

 

It sounds like the cable is stretched. The verdict turned out to be the cable linkage.

 

If the sunroof motor is tired you may need a new one... Mine clicked like a machine gun when the gears were worn out but if its the motor a new one is $350 online and I got one from a junk yard for $224. If its a loose wire in the wiring harness, try slamming the drivers door.

 

How do I get to the cable and how can I tell if it has been stretched? The motor sounds fine.

 

You can see the cables from the top tray, gunk gets into the rail and then can slow the movement of the cables and bind. You can also pop the cover off #4 and check the motor for movement, it might be binding. The cables run in the tray #1 into the front of the cassette. Removing the sides plastics to see the front latch and cable connection, you will have to remove the inside and out side trim on those arms above the window. That is if you can get the top back in sunroof position.



Here are what the parts looks like separately.

Sunroof Mechanism / Convertible Top Cable Set Part number 54347174761 #14 in diagram.

These can stretch the cable and the gears just spin on the motor or they can disconnect near the front by main latch.


http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/54347174761/ES158840/



Convertible Top Motor - part number 67616961172 #7 in diagram, check the teeth and the gear for movement. These is also a hole for the manual crank with the tool from the tool kit in the trunk.


http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/67616961172/ES184353/




#9 and #10 can come off the sides to get a peak on the inside of the cable front other then looking at the cables with the motor off from the back.

Thanks and hope that helps.

 

Excellent info - thanks. Have been out of town but will have time this coming weekend to look at it. One more bit of info that may help diagnose:

Opening ragtop is no problem at all. Opening AND closing the sunroof only is no problem. When closing the ragtop, it closes and latches without issue. The issue comes in the first 3-4 inches of movement of the sunroof closing (this is extra motion that does not happen when the sunroof opens and closes without full ragtop opening). If I push sunroof from the outside while holding the clsoe button it will close with a little extra motor effort (no clicking or other meachincal noise). My hunch is needing to lubricate the track during those 3-4 inches but I am very open to any other suggestions before I tackle it this weekend.

 

Subscribed and sorry for all of your troubles!

 

Thanks,

If you find there is not separation of the cables to the 54347174761 #14 ,


If they are moving at the same rate and one side is moving forward slightly compared to the other side , then check the black slides on the front of the those mechanical cables. They can gum up with junk in the rail. Lubricating the rails is preventative maintenance for the sliding. You have to take off the plastic covers on the top and interior side to access it more. then you can see how it works and watch the location where it slides in the rail. Check those cable connections for separation at that point again, now you can get a close look at it. #9 and #10 on each side.



#9 in diagram.

Cover Trim Convertible Top - Left Part number 54347177317


http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/54347177317/ES158847/



&

Cover Trim Convertible Top - Right Part number 54347177318


http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/54347177318/




#10 in diagram

Cover - Upper Left part number 54347154505


http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/54347154505/

&

Cover - Upper Right part number 54347154506


http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/SiteSearch/54347154506/



Let me know when know what you find after you examine it a little more. The removal of the trim will help.

Thanks

 

OK now I am pissed. 75 degrees and sunny in WA (not common), I have removed the top and side trim panels on the sunroof arms and cleaned / lubed the tracks. Popped the cover off the sunroof motor to start tracing back to the cables and now the cabrio top will not even engage. Sunroof still works perfectly but when I push the button the second time NOTHING happens other that flashing red LED on the switch. ideas?

 

If the sunroof portion works fine but the hooks wont release and put the top in the down position the first thing to check would be the rear parcel shelf to make sure it is fully seated and the switch is in the closed position. Its where the left side of the parcel shelf rests. If that doesn't doe it then operate your rear windows all the way down for 10 seconds and then back up to reinitialize them. Hope this helps

 

The rear parcel shelf has 2 arms facing downward and they rest on a trim panel. In the left trim panel the is a switch that the parcel shelf must depress for the top to operate.