I went for my 2nd MINI test drive today. I drove a 2005 MCS sport/prem with new Pirelli run flats on 17" rims. Great fun: Lotsa power, Great cornering. Go-cart express! When I turned the key in, I tried to wipe the big stupid grin off my face... but I just couldn't make it happen!

I also noticed a couple of not so fun things:

1. There's a lot more wheelspin than I expected. For example, I went around a tight left hander on a wide street at ~25 MPH and goosed the throttle a bit. Not much acceleration happened but, quite a lot of wheel spin did. Does everyone just live with all of this wheel spin? Are the run flat tires partly to blame? Or... ?

Last Weekend, I drove a 2004 MCS sport/prem with the same 17" rims. It had new tires that weren't run flats. I didn't experience nearly as much wheel spin on that car. (To be fair though the tires were way underinflated, with probably only 15 psi in the fronts). Thoughts?

2. Hunting. The 2005 MCS I drove today "hunted" noticeable at speeds above 30 mph on a very slightly bumpy road. It just wasn't very excited about going straight! I had to work a bit to keep it in the middle of my lane.

I'm sure that if I owned this MCS for a while, I'd learn to compensate: I'd be making minor steering corrections all the time without even knowing I was doing it. But is this much "hunting" to be expected? Are the run flats contributing to the problem? Or....?

Again, Last Weekend, the 2004 MCS I drove (with the tire pressure alarm going off constantly!) was much happier about going straight. I did not notice the car hunting. But, I was on a very smooth road for most of the test drive. (and the tires were totally under inflated). Thoughts?

Again, I had a total blast in this MCS today! I will buy one.

Thanks!

 

The optional LSD helps with the problem of spinning the inside wheel. Non-runflats are superior (usually) until you actually get a flat tire. If you have a system that works for you (spare at home, stop leak and a compressor in the boot, etc), then ditching the runflats is a well accepted solution.

My 05 MINI tracks straight even with it's Pirelli Euphori@ runflats. Sounds like the one you drove needs an alignment.

Rawhyde

PS More fun than a barrel of monkeys, ain't it?

 

I think what you are experiencing with "hunting", which I think is the same as what some folks are calling tramlining, is due to the 17" wheels. I've driven four or five different MCS's with 17's. They were fun in smooth corners, but seemed too twitchy on the highways. Catching every little imperfection and wanting to dart that direction.

I run 16" wheels w/non-RF tires and have the limited slip differential. No nervous, twitchy response. I still get some spinning coming out of corners, but the response is a zillion times better than any other front wheel drive cars that I've driven. I hated the torque steer with my Civic SI. The Honda required a firm grip with both hands and way too much attention just to keep it going straight.

Glad to see you are having fun with your test drives. If you get the chance, drive an MCS with 16" wheels.

 

ditto on dimini's suggestion. I have 16" runflats and my car tracks very true on all sorts of road conditions. The ride isn't as choppy either with this combo. Lastly, I have the LSD which I love when coming out of a corner on the spirited side of driving. Heck, just talking about this makes me want to go and motor instead of staring at a computer screen

swizzle

 

There are definitely some quirks with mini's. The dumb grin is one of them. You probably will never be able to get rid of it, so just learn to live with it. Actually my grin when I'm driving my mini looks like a " I'm having fun grin". When I get out of the mini, then it looks like a "dumb grin".

 

I've got the 17's and haven't noticed the tramlining (yet). Though the car only has 1,500 miles on it now.

My 06 330i tramlines, and it has 9,100 miles on the 18" RFT (bridgestone potenza's).

 

Hunting/ tramlining, IMHO is a function of the 45 series runflats. Mine does it horribly (before and after alignment), so much so that there are stretches of my daily freeway commute where I simply can not ride the heavily rutted right lane without being bounced around like a pinball. I am really looking forward to the runflats wearing out so I can replace them with something better.

 

It really shouldn't. When my car was out of alignment, I thought it tramlining. I could easily feel it following the crown of the road. Tramlining is more like following the grooves in the pavement

If the road is smooth (I know hard to find these days), the car should track absolutely straight and solid.

 

Great! Now I have an excuse to drive a bunch more MCSs and see if a pattern emerges... In the service of Science, I must know if it was an alignment issue, the run flats on 17" rims, or something else!

One thing that may have encouraged wheel spin-- it was 4 degrees Farenheit here in Denver yesterday when I was driving. I'll bet the tires are less grippy at that temperature. Regardless, I'll definately be looking for a car with LSD.

Besides my 2 MCS test drives, I have no real experience driving cars with super low-profile tires. Based on the bit of reading I've done, "Tramlining" sounds like it is the tendency of the car to follow grooves in the road surface. The road I was on had no grooves. It was flat pavement (maybe with a minor ripple or two). (Broadway at N. 5th ave in Denver is reasonably flat as roads go). This makes me think that on the 2005 MCS I drove yesterday, I was seeing an alignment or bump-steer issue. But, I don't really know. I'm just going to have to make the huge personal sacfrice of test driving lots more of these fun little cars. Untill... untill... I know the answer. --After all, Science must go on...

Thanks everyone for all the replies!

 

Yes, tramlining follows the grooves in the road.
All cars, with no hands on the wheel if alighment is correct, WILL follow the crown on the road. That is why its hard to see if a car is pulling slightly. You got the find a flat road, usually the center lane on a three lane highway.

The car, with hands off the wheel, should track smooth, solid and straight ahead for a bit ... its not going to forever.

As to tires, its not RF or not. Its the type of tire. If all-season, they will be MUCH better in winter than summer tires. Summer tires loose stickyness below 45 degrees.

best of luck!

 

Just buy one already.

 

Hey, this thread is fun. Hope it doesn't stop just because Estabahn finds his dream MCS and buys it...

In the spirit of furthering our psuedo-science experiments, please read on:

I had 17" 45 series non-runflats on my 2000 Audi S4, and after driving that combo for 45K miles, I decided against 17"s when I leased my '03 MCS. On the Audi, after 6000 miles, the tires howled like something you'd find with your neighbor's Jeep CJ5! I hated it! At highway speeds, the sound was very obnoxious. The sharper, rougher ride wasn't as noticeable with the S4 because, compared to an MCS, it's a big, soft tuna boat. The Audi also tramlined, which leads me to believe the tramline issue is all about 45 (and less) series tires-- not runflat versus non-runflat technology.

So, Estabahn, for the sake of Science, get out there and test drive more MCS's. While you're at it and if you are lucky enough to find a JCW MCS, don't pass up the test drive.

 

Your acceleration will improve with the factory 16" inch runflats with V-Spoke R84 wheels. They are much lighter than the popular 17"s with "S-Lite" wheels.

 

The car should track straight and true for about 1/4 of a mile with the hands off the wheel.

Please don't do this on a crowded road!

 

estabahn... one difference that hasn't been noted yet between the 2005 and 2004 that you drove... in 2005, MINI revised the gearing, making it more aggressive. This may well have been one reason why the 2005 had more wheelspin than the 2004.

Obviously there are pros and cons to the gearing changes. The new gearing definitely improved accelleration, but at the sacrifice of both highway mileage (i.e. higher RPM at same speed) and top speed (although you likely won't notice that!).

Personally I love the 2005/2006 gearing, and when coupled with the JCW power... it's HUGE difference compared to an unmodified 2002-2004.

 

I would say that a bone stock '05-'06 MCS pulls as strong (or stronger) off the line than a '02-'04 MCS equipped with the old (200HP) JCW kit.

Personally, I never really liked the tall gearing of the pre-'05 MCS specially driving around the city. This is one of the reasons why changing the factory pulley became such a hot mod, because doing so would give the car the low grunt it was missing and compensate for the very tall exit out of 1st gear.

When MINI changed the gearing (1st gear is 11% shorter than in previous years) the character of the car became much better in my book and a seemingly more relaxed driving experience in the city. I used to own a '04 MCS and I had to father the clutch a little too much to get it going. Not so in the '05 that I have now.

The '05+ MCS is better tuned to North American driving conditions. The older and taller gearing was better suited for very high speed driving (Ex: German Autobahn) but not much low end grunt.

 

Hey C4,

your post #16 is dead-on right and your signature is funny. I've haven't been following NAM as closely as I should. A Rav 4... What happened with Chow's JCW?

 

He traded in the JCW MC40 and bought a Porsche Cayman. He always had the RAV4, even when he had the MC40.

 

I noticed the same thing with my '04 MCS. Many of the roads here have some serious ruts in them. Unfortunately, most people here have fullsize pickups - so the Mini doesn't 'fit' so well in these ruts. When I had my 17" setup on the car, it would not track straight and true at all (esp. under acceleration). It would be perfectly fine on new (flat) stretches of pavement, but not on the older heavily rutted sections.

I switched over to narrower 185/65R15 tires for the winter, and the car does not follow the ruts anywhere near as badly, and it makes for a much more relaxed drive on these rutted roads.

I don't think it's an alignment issue in my case. Tires wear out evenly, it does not pull on good sections of pavement, and there's no play in the steering.

My Jeep Cherokee has the same problem when I'm running my larger 31x10.5R15 tires, but the problem disappears when I run my narrow 235/75R15 winter tires.

And one last note - I lived in Denver from 1997-1999 when I was going to auto tech school. Most all of the roads there were what I considered heavily rutted - very much the same as Alaskan roads. I remember there were times that I could let go of the steering wheel and the my Jeep would follow the ruts, even around minor curves on the freeway.

 

Hmm...

If only I had such a dilema.

 

I've driven a few more MINIs. They've all been very fun to drive. At the top of the thread I wrote that I was concerned about the fact that a 2004 MCS I drove did want to stay straight over any sort of minor varation in road surface. I was wondering if the Pirelli run-flats were to blame. Well...

Here's what I found so far:
1. 2004 MCS. Tires: GoodYear (not runflat). tires underinflated -> car stayed straight over bumps.

2. 2005 MCS. Tires Pirelli Run Flat -> car did not want to go straight. (every tiny bump sent it off in a new direction). Yes, exciting to drive, but maybe in a bad way...

3. 2005 MCS. Tires: GoodYear (not runflat). -> car stayed straight over bumps.

4. 2006 MCS. Tires GoodYear Eagle Run Flat -> car stayed straight over bumps.

All of the cars I drove had either brand new tires or had tires with very little wear on them. Car Number 3 had a cracked front strut mount and 1 mushroomed shock tower. All of the cars were similarly equipped: all had 17" crown spoke wheels. All had option packages 1, 2, & 3.

I did not do any driving on grooved pavement.

Although, I've NOT driven another car with the Pirelli Run-flats, so far it looks like Chows & C4 have it right. A car with run-flats should stay straight over minor bumps. I'll drive another car with the Pirellis eventually (still looking for one).

Other random observation: The ride quality was much much better with the GoodYear eagle run flats that it was with the Pirelli run flats. If I hadn't read the sidewall of the tires on car #4, I never would have known it had run-flat tires on it.

Thanks everyone for all the replies!

(uh, where's the sig badge for "saving up my money for a silver MCS"?). Hafta make my own...

 

First Test Drive =
Second Test Drive =

Third Drive as new owner =

 

i too have been test driving MCS's and loving it. last week i drove an '06 and today an '04 MC40. i thought i felt the car today being a bit slower and *easier* to launch, but i attributed it to last week being my first time in an MCS and not used to the clutch. the '06 i drove felt pretty wild. so i guess i'm also a fan of the newer gearing, i'm gonna now narrow my search to an '05~'06 car

 

Really? I had the pleasure of driving Maximusmini's '06 MCS (with LSD) for 4 months and I prefer the gearing of my 2003 MCS. I really like the taller first gear of my '03.