R50/53 stress cracks in windshields
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: north seacoast ,Ma.USA
I am about to have my fourth windshield installed in my 8 month old cooper s.(the last one lasted all of 4 days)they have all been stress related,not anything to do with road debris.I would love to hear from anyone having similar problems.I know of another local owner who is working on his fifth.Mini US is "looking into it",but I know from talking to the service manager at the dealership where I bought the car that I am not alone.Can you say CLASS ACTION SUIT"? :???: :???: :???: :???:
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Just around the corner from the Dragon :~)
Same disclaimer as OmToast: for anyone sick of reading yet another post, by me, pertaining to my fractured windscreen, read no further or at least skip to the new stuff at the bottom)
I know I've posted about my experiences already but went and picked up the car today, without anything be accomplished, no replacement glass, no low fuel gong, no speed wipers, 3 plus hours down the drain. I'm going to wait until the Regional Warranty Rep can find time to come up from Atlanta and look at the crack. Basic problem is they say it was caused by a stone hitting the windshield, I say it happened overnight while parked in my garage here is the STORY.
Anyway they had stated that MINI had put out a bulletin about stress cracks and that the problem was only found in pre April 02 builds. Well here is the bulletin and it's not the glass that is the problem it's the installation procedure that has been called into question, and that pre-April stuff is pure Bovine Excrement.
Message Number: SI M51 02 03
Subject: Windshield Stress Crack Survey
Situation: The production process for installation of the windshield was improved in April 2002, and these improvements resulted in a significant reduction in the number of stress cracked windshields.
In order to further improve the quality, information is needed to properly analyze the causes of the remaining stress crack occurrences on cars produced after April 2002.
Procedure: Whenever a windshield is replaced under warranty for a stress crack, please fill out the attached form. It goes on to ask about production date of the glass and for the tech to measure the height of the glass/adhesive from the body with a depth gauge and lists 10 specific points they want checked. The reading is from the top surface of the glass to the body. After the glass is removed inspect the adhesive bead and the body opening for any irregularities.
I'm sure the thickness, or lack of, is a contributing factor, but it would appear to me that it is more of a positioning and adhesion quality issue then anything else.
As for a subsequent replacement piece of glass cracking, I was told that if I allowed mini to replace and install the glass I would be covered by the remaining warranty on my car or 1 year whichever came first. If I went with an outside company mini wouldn't cover anything dealing with the glass. The price difference is about $400 USD.
MINIUSA is no help, they are being buried in Technical Minutia. They told me the dealership performed a test to check the cause of the crack and determined it was caused by a stone chip. I asked what kind of test and they said a “pin” test. I asked the service advisor and service manager about the test and they had never heard of a pin test and all they did was look at it and came up with their conclusion that it was a stone chip.
The problem with this theory is that with the number of stone chips I have on my windshield there is a 90% probability that a crack is going to hit one of them. Right now it’s the principle of the thing that keeps me trying.
Hey, Moderators any thought of combining all these threads about windshield issues so that we have one place to search for?
Sorry for the lenght, but lots of info to put out.
I know I've posted about my experiences already but went and picked up the car today, without anything be accomplished, no replacement glass, no low fuel gong, no speed wipers, 3 plus hours down the drain. I'm going to wait until the Regional Warranty Rep can find time to come up from Atlanta and look at the crack. Basic problem is they say it was caused by a stone hitting the windshield, I say it happened overnight while parked in my garage here is the STORY.
Anyway they had stated that MINI had put out a bulletin about stress cracks and that the problem was only found in pre April 02 builds. Well here is the bulletin and it's not the glass that is the problem it's the installation procedure that has been called into question, and that pre-April stuff is pure Bovine Excrement.
Message Number: SI M51 02 03
Subject: Windshield Stress Crack Survey
Situation: The production process for installation of the windshield was improved in April 2002, and these improvements resulted in a significant reduction in the number of stress cracked windshields.
In order to further improve the quality, information is needed to properly analyze the causes of the remaining stress crack occurrences on cars produced after April 2002.
Procedure: Whenever a windshield is replaced under warranty for a stress crack, please fill out the attached form. It goes on to ask about production date of the glass and for the tech to measure the height of the glass/adhesive from the body with a depth gauge and lists 10 specific points they want checked. The reading is from the top surface of the glass to the body. After the glass is removed inspect the adhesive bead and the body opening for any irregularities.
I'm sure the thickness, or lack of, is a contributing factor, but it would appear to me that it is more of a positioning and adhesion quality issue then anything else.
As for a subsequent replacement piece of glass cracking, I was told that if I allowed mini to replace and install the glass I would be covered by the remaining warranty on my car or 1 year whichever came first. If I went with an outside company mini wouldn't cover anything dealing with the glass. The price difference is about $400 USD.
MINIUSA is no help, they are being buried in Technical Minutia. They told me the dealership performed a test to check the cause of the crack and determined it was caused by a stone chip. I asked what kind of test and they said a “pin” test. I asked the service advisor and service manager about the test and they had never heard of a pin test and all they did was look at it and came up with their conclusion that it was a stone chip.
The problem with this theory is that with the number of stone chips I have on my windshield there is a 90% probability that a crack is going to hit one of them. Right now it’s the principle of the thing that keeps me trying.
Hey, Moderators any thought of combining all these threads about windshield issues so that we have one place to search for?
Sorry for the lenght, but lots of info to put out.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
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My contribution to the windshield rants:
same warning, I have ranted before, I'm angry about this
,
so If you don't like to hear any more don't read this!
Here are my 2 c worth:
1) with all due respect to MINI / USA / Division / engineers, etc.., and
with all due respect to the MINI itself for the great car it is,
MINI has their heads:
I have not had a crack yet, but will need a new windshield when I get back, on account of numerous chips and dings, and an uncountable number of pin-hole sized dinks. These dinks IMHO come from SUB-STANDARD GLASS used for the windshield. Combine that with a windshield that is TOO THIN!!! and you will get a crack sooner or later, it's just a matter of time.
I agree with you smokey4, that when you get a crack, the way most of these windshields are riddle with pinholes after only a few months, the crack will likely cross a pinhole somewhere, and may even be more likely to originate at one.
For MINI then to refuse replacement under warranty really s-u-c-k-s!
In my view, these crack, even if they originate at or cross even a pinhole, appear because the MINI windshield is clearly sub-standard and inadequate!
MINI need to get their heads out of the above and do something about this ASAP, or they will have a very large number of very unhappy owners on their hands.
For me, it may well become the make or break issue that will determine whether I will keep my car or not. I love this car tremendously but will not keep a car that will need a new windshield every 2-3 months.
same warning, I have ranted before, I'm angry about this
,so If you don't like to hear any more don't read this!
Here are my 2 c worth:
1) with all due respect to MINI / USA / Division / engineers, etc.., and
with all due respect to the MINI itself for the great car it is,
MINI has their heads:
I have not had a crack yet, but will need a new windshield when I get back, on account of numerous chips and dings, and an uncountable number of pin-hole sized dinks. These dinks IMHO come from SUB-STANDARD GLASS used for the windshield. Combine that with a windshield that is TOO THIN!!! and you will get a crack sooner or later, it's just a matter of time.
I agree with you smokey4, that when you get a crack, the way most of these windshields are riddle with pinholes after only a few months, the crack will likely cross a pinhole somewhere, and may even be more likely to originate at one.
For MINI then to refuse replacement under warranty really s-u-c-k-s!
In my view, these crack, even if they originate at or cross even a pinhole, appear because the MINI windshield is clearly sub-standard and inadequate!
MINI need to get their heads out of the above and do something about this ASAP, or they will have a very large number of very unhappy owners on their hands.
For me, it may well become the make or break issue that will determine whether I will keep my car or not. I love this car tremendously but will not keep a car that will need a new windshield every 2-3 months.
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: north seacoast ,Ma.USA
thanks for your input.the part of your dialogue which interested me the most was the part about it happening while the car was parked overnight ,as this was also my experience BOTH the last two times.I bought my car from Mini peabody in Massachusetts,and cannot say enough about the service mgr.Gary King:THE BEST!Weds, I will have my fourth windscreen installed.This time they are buying my rental.If anyone's interested I have the phone # for the srvice rep I have been talking to at Mini US: her name is lisa and she can be reached at 1-866-275-6464 ext.7625.Good luck to all. (still)Holdenontoit :evil:
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,365
Likes: 2
From: Yinzer in Exile
<<<Seems like a great opportunity for an aftermarket company to produce a better quality windshield. >>>
I would totally pay...
I would totally pay...
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5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,057
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>>Seems like a great opportunity for an aftermarket company to produce a better quality windshield.
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One would hope, one would hope.
I would rather pay $1,000 once for a decent windshield, than $400 every 3 months (=$1,200 per year) to replace a sub-standard part with another sub-standard part.
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One would hope, one would hope.
I would rather pay $1,000 once for a decent windshield, than $400 every 3 months (=$1,200 per year) to replace a sub-standard part with another sub-standard part.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
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Where do you guys live/drive? We still have the original factory windshield in our 2002 MINI Cooper CVT (8/2002 build date) and zero problems. We have driven all over the place and no issues whatsoever with the windshield.
Does MINI driver's usually frequent gravel roads or follow construction dump trucks?
Really, help me understand.
Does MINI driver's usually frequent gravel roads or follow construction dump trucks?
Really, help me understand.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 0
>>Where do you guys live/drive? We still have the original factory windshield in our 2002 MINI Cooper CVT (8/2002 build date) and zero problems. We have driven all over the place and no issues whatsoever with the windshield.
>>
>>Does MINI driver's usually frequent gravel roads or follow construction dump trucks?
>>
>>Really, help me understand.
Good question.
I live in TX and drive mostly cities and some highways, and occasionally go on extended road trips. I don't go on gravel roads or off road. I don't live in areas where I have to travers dirt roads.
All you need to do is get momentarily stuck behind some truck that is carrying dirt, or has earlier, or behind someone towing dirty vehicles or equipmetn on a trailer, and you are liable to get hit with rocks or pebbles. It is from such instances that I got my deep chips, which I have had repaired.
The many, many pinhole dinks my winshield has have come on my continuing cross country trip from TX to WA, only on highways under what I would consider normal conditions. Most likely, the pinholes came from the grit that is put on roads in some states in winter time. I was driving through some stuff like that in Idaho and Washington. Because weather and road conditions were not very good on that drive, my speeds at the time were 50 to 55 mph, and still I assume it is then when the grit hit the windshiled and caused the pitting. What amazes me is that my windshield is in a far worse state than the paint! The glass of the windshield appears to be softer than the paint!
Even the pebble cracks though have me perplexed. I did the same kind of driving in my Subaru Outback for 5 years before getting the MINI. I had lots of rock encounters, and some hit the windshield with a far louder impact then what I have experienced in the MINI. I also drove the suby in the NW through the same winter conditions, yet I never got a single crack in the WS, and when I sold the car it was as smooth as a babies behind, not a single pinhole could be spotted.
>>
>>Does MINI driver's usually frequent gravel roads or follow construction dump trucks?
>>
>>Really, help me understand.
Good question.
I live in TX and drive mostly cities and some highways, and occasionally go on extended road trips. I don't go on gravel roads or off road. I don't live in areas where I have to travers dirt roads.
All you need to do is get momentarily stuck behind some truck that is carrying dirt, or has earlier, or behind someone towing dirty vehicles or equipmetn on a trailer, and you are liable to get hit with rocks or pebbles. It is from such instances that I got my deep chips, which I have had repaired.
The many, many pinhole dinks my winshield has have come on my continuing cross country trip from TX to WA, only on highways under what I would consider normal conditions. Most likely, the pinholes came from the grit that is put on roads in some states in winter time. I was driving through some stuff like that in Idaho and Washington. Because weather and road conditions were not very good on that drive, my speeds at the time were 50 to 55 mph, and still I assume it is then when the grit hit the windshiled and caused the pitting. What amazes me is that my windshield is in a far worse state than the paint! The glass of the windshield appears to be softer than the paint!
Even the pebble cracks though have me perplexed. I did the same kind of driving in my Subaru Outback for 5 years before getting the MINI. I had lots of rock encounters, and some hit the windshield with a far louder impact then what I have experienced in the MINI. I also drove the suby in the NW through the same winter conditions, yet I never got a single crack in the WS, and when I sold the car it was as smooth as a babies behind, not a single pinhole could be spotted.
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6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: north seacoast ,Ma.USA
Like I said before,the last two times ,the car has been parked in my back yard!the cracks have occured in the exact same place ,almost perfectly framing the VIN # in the lower left hand corner .I live in Northern seacoast Massachusetts. Jocko
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,099
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From: Just around the corner from the Dragon :~)
I'm in the Hills of NC, around Asheville. My daily drive (60 miles round trip) is only on paved roads, with the exception of my driveway, and involves a 50-50 split between two-lane and interstate. I don't think it's the stone strikes that are causing these cracks to appear, I think it's the flex of the glass in comparison to the lack of flex in the body of the car, and the twisty roads we all seek out might even add to the problem.
The stone strikes that I have had aren't from great big hunks of rock kicked up by Semi-Trucks, they are from little pebble size and smaller. I have no "bulls-eyes" or chunks missing, just a lot of strike marks. The Service Manager agreed that the glass is soft, and said the BMW's are also soft, so the same vendor might make it. He said that after a few years in some of the BMWs, with the sun just right you can't see out of the car due to the haze produced by all the strike marks.
We have been very wet here in NC this winter, and with the road chat (sand/salt mixture) any vehicle in front of you will lift this gunk off the road and on to your car. That is one of the reasons I try to "get-out" front, and not have anyone throw this stuff up.
I've got a 69 VW Bug (vertical windshield) sitting outside with 150,000 miles, original front glass and it's fairing better then my 02 MCS.
If this trend continues it will effect my decision on purchasing.
additional Minis.
The stone strikes that I have had aren't from great big hunks of rock kicked up by Semi-Trucks, they are from little pebble size and smaller. I have no "bulls-eyes" or chunks missing, just a lot of strike marks. The Service Manager agreed that the glass is soft, and said the BMW's are also soft, so the same vendor might make it. He said that after a few years in some of the BMWs, with the sun just right you can't see out of the car due to the haze produced by all the strike marks.
We have been very wet here in NC this winter, and with the road chat (sand/salt mixture) any vehicle in front of you will lift this gunk off the road and on to your car. That is one of the reasons I try to "get-out" front, and not have anyone throw this stuff up.
I've got a 69 VW Bug (vertical windshield) sitting outside with 150,000 miles, original front glass and it's fairing better then my 02 MCS.
If this trend continues it will effect my decision on purchasing.
additional Minis.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,057
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Hhhhhm,
I wonder whether any of the aftermarket strut tower braces would reduce the likelihood of windshield cracks?
That aside, I'm surpised to hear that bimmer owners put up with a windshield that get's hazy after a few years.
Let s keep this thread active and on top - at least periodically - until MINI decides to dos omething about this (hopefully).
I wonder whether any of the aftermarket strut tower braces would reduce the likelihood of windshield cracks?
That aside, I'm surpised to hear that bimmer owners put up with a windshield that get's hazy after a few years.
Let s keep this thread active and on top - at least periodically - until MINI decides to dos omething about this (hopefully).
OVERDRIVE
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,365
Likes: 2
From: Yinzer in Exile
To answer the location question...
I'm a beltway bandit for most of my roadtrips--between school in Fredericksburg, VA and home in Pittsburgh,PA, with a couple jaunts up to the NY/CT area. (that all changes with this summer's Xcountry drive...mua ha hahahahahahaha....). I've got just a smidge under 5000miles on a 3month old MCS. I (thankfully) don't have any pitting or dinging on my windscreen, despite the fact that I am regularly pelted by stupid semi's and the like. I don't think I even know the location of any unpaved roads.
MG-BGT, about the aftermarket strut tower braces.... if the're found to eliminate the crappy windscreen problem then I motion that BMW, in all it's Bavarian splendor, should buy them for us!!! :evil: (or at least for the people who have repeated problems. It's not like they aren't fully aware that this is an issue. And them trying to talk stress cracks down to rock-induced chasms, that's just... well... it's... it's... MALARKEY! Only... when you read that, insert a four letter word prior to malarkey or substitute your favourite explative for malarkey...)
I think it's very mean to break people's brand new cars, and that's essentially what they've done by virtue of a little crappy engineering/skimping. Piffle.
I'm a beltway bandit for most of my roadtrips--between school in Fredericksburg, VA and home in Pittsburgh,PA, with a couple jaunts up to the NY/CT area. (that all changes with this summer's Xcountry drive...mua ha hahahahahahaha....). I've got just a smidge under 5000miles on a 3month old MCS. I (thankfully) don't have any pitting or dinging on my windscreen, despite the fact that I am regularly pelted by stupid semi's and the like. I don't think I even know the location of any unpaved roads.
MG-BGT, about the aftermarket strut tower braces.... if the're found to eliminate the crappy windscreen problem then I motion that BMW, in all it's Bavarian splendor, should buy them for us!!! :evil: (or at least for the people who have repeated problems. It's not like they aren't fully aware that this is an issue. And them trying to talk stress cracks down to rock-induced chasms, that's just... well... it's... it's... MALARKEY! Only... when you read that, insert a four letter word prior to malarkey or substitute your favourite explative for malarkey...)
I think it's very mean to break people's brand new cars, and that's essentially what they've done by virtue of a little crappy engineering/skimping. Piffle.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 0
>>MG-BGT, about the aftermarket strut tower braces.... if the're found to eliminate the crappy windscreen problem then I motion that BMW, in all it's Bavarian splendor, should buy them for us!!! :evil: (or at least for the people who have repeated problems. It's not like they aren't fully aware that this is an issue. And them trying to talk stress cracks down to rock-induced chasms, that's just... well... it's... it's... MALARKEY! Only... when you read that, insert a four letter word prior to malarkey or substitute your favourite explative for malarkey...)
>>
>>I think it's very mean to break people's brand new cars, and that's essentially what they've done by virtue of a little crappy engineering/skimping. Piffle.
I love this board! I learn so many new thinsg here!
MALARKEY, what a great word. But you didn't stop there:
Piffle!
Thanks for some well needed stress relief!
>>
>>I think it's very mean to break people's brand new cars, and that's essentially what they've done by virtue of a little crappy engineering/skimping. Piffle.
I love this board! I learn so many new thinsg here!
MALARKEY, what a great word. But you didn't stop there:
Piffle!
Thanks for some well needed stress relief!
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,099
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From: Just around the corner from the Dragon :~)
>>Check your email for our offer of help. If you prefer, you can call us at 866-ASK MINI.
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A little help here MINIDivision
Are you talking to me? There are about 15 plus people on this thread alone with this problem, care to identify the individual you want to contact you?
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>>
A little help here MINIDivision
Are you talking to me? There are about 15 plus people on this thread alone with this problem, care to identify the individual you want to contact you?
2nd Gear
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 102
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I think it great for MINIUSA to offer assitance to Smoky, but the real point is to have MINIUSA admit that the windshields are sub par and reengineer a replacement windshield as a factory RECALL item nationwide!!. Sorry, MINI has a policy of "stonewalling" (no pun intended) on known problem areas example pull to the left",,brown coolant" and windshields,,I also have a 72 VW Bug with over 170K with the same whindshield..!,,,Maybe BMW should find out who was the supplier of bug windshields and use them!! MINIUSA,,please do the "right thing" and find a " fix" for your sub par windshields and stop blaming the owners and rocks!! Any one else agree?..
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,099
Likes: 0
From: Just around the corner from the Dragon :~)
I agree with you Gas2Hi, but you probably knew that!
Just for clarification, MINIDivision HAS NOT contacted me, refference this issue.
Can anyone tell us who got the email?
Just for clarification, MINIDivision HAS NOT contacted me, refference this issue.
Can anyone tell us who got the email?