Was reading a rant post and somefew people mentioned how keeping the clutch engaged at a redlight would shorten the lifespan of the clutch. Not sure who taught them to drive but there is no appreciable clutch wear when keeping the clutch fully engaged while stopped or any other time. Like those of you who were taught not to put it in gear when parking on a hill (with the parking brake on too)...you were taught incorrectly. As long as it's "fully" engaged you can keep that clutch depressed at every red light you come to and it won't wear it out. I've a sneaking suspicion that there are those of you out there that either don't fully depress the clutch or ride the clutch thinking their touch is light enough not to make a difference.

 

might be harder on the slave cylinders, and I'd think the
pressure plate springs should be able to handle this treatment,
but as you say, the clutch itself should not be affected at all by this.

 

They've affected me. I've driven stick shift cars for over 50 years and always kept the clutch depressed at stops. Some of these cars I drove over 150,000 miles without a clutch or transmission problem.

But now I take MINI out of gear while stopped.

 

if the clutch was engaged at a redlight, that means the car would need
to be off (or in neutral).

engaged = clutch out
disengaged = clutch in

the issue is the possible premature wear of the throwout bearing, not the
clutch.

 

ken's got it right.

 

OK. So . . . is it better to disengage at an intersection (or other idling opportunity) or to engage (with the car in neutral)?

I was taught to disengage and leave the tranny in neutral on such occasions, but I'm not sure I can articulate why that's better than what I've also seen folks do, other than it rests my clutch leg.

 

When I'm driving, I don't depress my clutch pedal all the way to the floor because it "feels" like it disengages sooner (does that make sense? Sorry, no degree in automotive technology here). If I do depress it all the way down to the floor, I end up jerking around because, well, somehow I just can't get my right foot to "equalize". You all know what I mean, right? When I'm not changing gears, my left foot is well off the pedal, no worries there. So. Am I asking for early repair costs? Should I go to the dealer and get my clutch pedal adjusted?

Oh, and don't even get me started on the problems I have when I change different types of shoes! Maybe that's just a girl thing...

Thanks everyone.

 

In the matter of the clutch, no, not taught incorrectly. Sitting at a stop with the clutch pedal fully depressed will create excess wear on the throw out.

Anecdotes of people driving their cars for 150K miles notwithstanding while doing this, sitting at a stop with the clutch fully depressed is most certainly not a good idea.

Another common problem is people resting their foot on the clutch pedal between shifts. Over time, even the slight pedal engagement caused by the weight of the foot can increase wear.

These are NOT urban myths, but quite well known.

 

Your hunch is right...the pedal should be pressed in fully. The clutch may feel disengaged...but it may not be....and this will cause wear.

 

How much wear are we actually talking about here? Do you, or anyone else, have any measurable statistics on clutch life if driven one way or the other.
I suspect the actual wear is so minimal as to be basically unimportant.

 

So am I just stuck with the way my clutch feels? This might sound silly, but I swear, when I drive my husband's car (another '06 MCSC) I can depress his clutch all the way in and not get the "jerkiness" I get with my car.

 

The throw-out bearings are designed to handle many, many more cycles than the clutch plates and the bearing is replaced when they replace your clutch so, personally, I'm not worried about a bit of excess wear on my throw-out bearing from keeping my clutch pressed to the floor when I'm at a stop light.

I have been at a stop, looked into my rearview mirror and seen the car behind me approaching way too fast. I happened to be in 1st gear with the clutch depressed, so I quickly popped the clutch and accelerated hard onto the shoulder. This caught the attention of the driver behind me (chatting away on a cell phone) who slammed on her brakes and stopped just in time to avoid hitting the car that was in front of me. I would have been in a world of hurt if I hadn't been ready to move. I'm not sure if I would have had time, in a panic situation, to clutch-in, shift to 1st, and clutch-out.

I'll run the risk of a slightly warn throw-out bearing and I'll keep my clutch foot on the floor.

 

Whether it's bad for the clutch or bad for the throwout bearing is entirely academic, because the clutch has to come out to change a throwout bearing anyway (may as well change it when it's out...). So why cause unnecessary wear to the throwout bearing?

I will say that modern throwout bearings are far more reliable than the bad old days, when the clutch was likely to far outlast the bearing if abused this way!

 

I have only been driving manual for a week, but all of the "instructions" I read online told me to keep it in nuetral at long lights, but that it is okay to keep in gear w/ clutch for short lights/stops.

 

well, i think if N as part of a gearset in my head... so i
would "engage" N (from the clutch's perspective) while i am waiting for
the light and keep my foot off the clutch pedal.

basically when i need to clutch-in for more than 4-5 seconds, i put it
back in N and clutch-out.

 

Actually, the clutch assy. does not need to be removed to replace the throw out bearing. I always put my car in neutral and take my foot completely off the clutch pedal. Definitely less wear on the throw out bearing.

 

If I had a doller for every person who came up to me at the parts counter with a broken clutch, with the "I was told you could keep the pedal down at stops..." I'd be retired by now.

Fred must work for a clutch manufacturer, because his advice will break clutches. That's potentially dangerous advice to follow.

Generally speaking, a clutch assemply is composed of three parts: Disc, pressure plate, and throw out bearing. The pressure plate is bolted to the engine flywheel, and the disc which is attached by a splined shaft to the transmission, rides against the pressure plate when the pedal is let out.

This web site will give you some simplistic illustrations: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm

Feel free to keep the clutch pedal down at stops. It's your car. The guys I used to work with in auto parts will be seeing you sooner that you'd hoped.

 

If the light just turned red and I'm going to be there awhile I may take the tranny out of gear and release the clutch pedal to save wear and tear on my old tired bones. More commonly, especially if the wait at the light isn't all that long, I just sit there in first w/ the clutch pedal depressed like a good boy.

Now, on to litabelle's "jerkiness." Is it a mechanical jerkiness, litabelle, or do you think the pedal position or tension is causing you grief? Any more clues?? I admit, my clutch feels perfectly normal like on your hubby's MCS.

 

I think I'll keep the clutch peddle down at lights.

Moving the gear shift to neutral at every stop puts more wear on the pressure plate as you have to let the clutch in and out four times instead of twice. So, you save the throw out bearing but wear out the pressure plate sooner.

My understanding is that you may not have to remove the clutch to replace the throw out bearing, but you would still have to separate the transmission from the motor. I would think that would be almost as expensive as taking the clutch out.

If the clutch is failing for reasons other than a worn pressure plate, that makes me think the driver was either abusing the clutch or the clutch itself was poorly designed or had a material defect.

 

Any statistics/measurable values to back this up? Sorry but my background as a scientist requires it before I'm going to believe what you say.

 

Here's a link posted in one of the other threads... http://www.cartalk.com/content/colum...August/06.html

If our MINIs have self-adjusting clutches (which I can't imagine that they don't), then clutch in or clutch out, it won't make any difference at all to the bearing as it is running all of the time anyway! While the 'foot off the clutch - car in neutral' advice was good for cars 10-15 years ago, it doesn't have much relevance for modern, self-adjusting clutches.

All of the "My local car parts desk guy is always telling me about people who need new bearing" stories are interesting, but don't gather any information about if the clutch was self-adjusting or not. They also don't gather any information about the engineering of the car (sports-minded w/ an eye on cost, like our MINIs or cost-minded w/ an eye on cost as many smaller domestic and import cars are built). I'd love to know how many bearings are replaced in MINIs (from a MINI parts desk) that aren't replaced in conjunction with clutch plates during a normal clutch rebuild... that information might actually tell us something.

 

My degree in Automotive Technology, and years behind a parts counter looking at the hard data customers brought in are all the data I need. You'll be replacing your clutch long before I will.

 

Throwout bearing and slave cylinder. If you are going to be stopped for a long time (like at a railroad crossing and the train is as long as can be...), it would be a good idea to put it in neutral.

 

eek! I don't know much about clutches and the rest of this hoopla in the thread (I put mine in neutral at lights/traffic jams fwiw) but I do know this much... Clutch all the way in, or all the way out.. anything in between is bad

Very odd that your Husbands MINI & yours is different

 

And how do you come to the conclusion that it won't make any difference at all to the bearing? The throwout bearing is only used when the clutch is disengaged. Increase the time the clutch is disengaged and you increase the use/wear of the throwout bearing.