Good point, I don't see a few seconds as a problem, but the full duration of a normal traffic light is excessive. By the way, the synchro consists of a clutch whose job it is to slow the gear being selected to the proper speed for engagement, and it happens pretty quick. The most extreme wear that I have seen with brass synchros, are worn teeth, and not the clutch/brake surface.

--Dan :{-

 

Years of driving with manual transmissions....forty.
Last car, 1996 Jetta TDI. Mileage.....200,000.
Number of throw-out bearings/clutches replaced.....zero.
Knee surgergies......zero.
Number of times I sit in neutral....almost zero.
Cost of advice.....priceless (and free.)

 

I agree, an entire light change seems excessive. My real thought process is based on a 1995 Ford Escort with 5 speed transmission. All 3 of my kids and wife have learned to drive a standard on this car. As it gets older, it is getting harder to get it into first gear. Had my son take me for a ride. Sits at the light clutch up. Slams down the clutch and and dumps it into 1st instantly. 195000 miles and syncros have had it into first gear. Got him to slow down, give a few seconds and it slips in without problem. Trying to break them of a bad habit so that when the do get to drive the Mini, They don't use the same approach.

 

OK, I haven't read this whole thread, but I can't believe there are four pages on this "issue". I really can't believe that it makes all that much difference in the long run whether you put the car in neutral and take your foot off the clutch pedal everytime you're at a light, or just hold the pedal down and leave it in gear.

I used to do it the second way all the time, simply because I was not taught to do otherwise. Now I often take it out of gear if I know I'm going to be sitting for a bit, just to give my left leg a rest.

I've never had a throwout bearing go bad on its own, and I've always had a new throwout bearing installed when replacing the clutch (good standard practice), so I don't believe that either method places unreasonable stress on the bearing.

 

Worked at NAPA Auto Parts: Eight Years (on and off)

Number of broken pressure plates or worn throw out bearings across the counter: Thousands

Percentage of customers who admitted they keep their foot on the clutch pedal: About 85%

Professional advice: Priceless.

 

My experience is the same. Hundreds of thousands of miles on stick shiift cars, mostly keeping the clutch depressed when stopped, with no problems. Hard to believe it makes much difference one way or the other.

 

Well, maybe I've just been lucky. Or maybe I'm hard enough on clutches that I burn up the disks before the throwout bearings and pressure plates have a chance to go bad.

 

43 years here and several manuals....nary a clutch nor knee replacement. Didn't know there was a right or wrong way but my way has worked all these years.

 

Here's another variable for the "clutch pedal depressed" versus "clutch up in neutral" awaiting at the stoplight driving approaches. According to released information, the 2008 MINIs will feature an engine auto-off feature as a fuel savings device.

1. Shift into neutral and let up on the clutch = engine shuts off
2. Depress the clutch pedal again = engine re-starts

I rarely shift into neutral at a stoplight, but perhaps this forthcoming feature supports the idea of such a mode of clutch operation.

 

Hope it's optional. That is the dumbest thing ever.

 

Somehow this thread reminds me of the oil change interval threads...

For the record, if I'm expecting to be able to take off from a stop within 10 seconds, I'll keep my foot on the clutch. Any longer, I'll usually put it in neutral to reduce wear on my knee. I have yet to replace a throwout bearing or pressure plate on my own vehicles because of failure. The clutch disc is always what I've had go bad first (200k+ miles). At that point, I'll replace everything as a set, and go another 200k+ miles.

As a former automotive and heavy equipment mechanic (gov't fleet vehicles), I've only had to replace a handful of throwout bearings due to failure - and almost all of these were due to moisture/rust (vehicles and equipment normally posted in very harsh Alaskan coastal climates - Shemya, St. Paul, St. Lawrence, Cold Bay, etc.) These vehicles were mostly stored outside, and were low-mileage (aka: they don't get used a lot) vehicles.

I feel that keeping the clutch in on modern passenger cars does increase wear (negligible amount) on the t/o bearing and pressure plate. So my recommendation is for people to do what feels comfortable to them, as long as they aren't slipping the clutch when they drive.

 

I just wish I had a runflat throw out bearing so I could hope it would wear out. Then I'd know to keep my clutch depressed at the light. As it is, I do as I please, guiltless, guileless and in disbelief that I'm contributing to this four page thread!

 

I'm starting to like this thread.

Seems to me like the additional gear shifting, and number of times depressing and releasing the clutch, would more than offset any additional wear on the throwout bearing caused by keeping the clutch depressed until ready to depart.

 

In Europe: yes -- this feature will not even be an option in US.

 

I really don't obsess over these things. If the stop looks like it will be very brief, I'll hold the clutch in; if not, I'll let it out. The reason is not based on clutch wear, though. It's based on me not wanting to hold the pressure on my leg for too long. If the MINI turns out to be that fragile, I'll just find something else to drive.

 

OK, are we done here?

Some of let it out so our knees will last longer, some of us hold it in so they're ready to go in case of imminent crash, others just because. That cover it?

 

You just punched a hole in someones boat!

 

Maybe I can stop my heart at stoplights to either 1) save wear and tear; or 2) save energy. Actually, I think I'll just do that when in Europe.

 

I think we need polls on NAM and have people vote.

Poll #1

Do you leave the clutch in at a red light?
a) Always
b) Never
c) If the wait is less than 5 seconds.
d) I drive an auto but felt like I shoudl be included in this poll.


Poll #2

How often do you change your oil?
a) Every 2500 miles
b) Every 5000 miles
c) Every 7500 miles
d) Every 10,000 miles
e) Oil?

 

Hmmm C) and E)

 

 

I have disintegrated/fried clutches, blown pressure plates, scorched flywheels, worn them out and had throw out bearings fail. Vehicles involved were rear wheel drive with front, mid and rear engine configurations except one front wheel dive. The clutch configuration is basically the same on all. I know because I replaced what I broke myself except for the front wheel drive daily driver that just wore out after 180K, I had a shop fix that one.
In the quest for speed I have destroyed allot of hardware and had fun doing it with no regrets.
If you want to sit at a stop light with the clutch in be my guest but be advised that you are compressing the pressure plate springs while waiting. The pressure plate provides the clamping force on the clutch disk to flywheel interface. The clutch disk rides on the splined transmission/transaxle input shaft that transfers power to the transmission/transaxle which drives the car. Springs lose their tension with time heat and compression. I want all the pressure plate spring tension I can get. Depressing the clutch also puts an axial load on the crank shaft which adds to the heat load of the engine by how much I don’t know but it does.
Just a note to the fellow about manual transmissions. It is easier on the syncros if you put it in second or third before going into first gear because it slows down the main shaft allowing first to mesh easier.
I want my R53 to last a long time and am not looking forward to the clutch job when it comes up, not sure if I will do it or have a shop do it. Had the dealership replace the flywheel per a TSB for noise issue @48+K so while it was apart I had them put in a new clutch assembly at cost. They reported original showed normal wear for miles driven because I don’t abuse the MINI.
Hey, I’m just sharing my experience take it or leave it.

 

Thanks for posting your experiences. This is what makes the MINI family so great. I think the best thing to do is to do what ever you think is prudent for your situation. I myself have had no clutch replacement/problems with over 30 yrs of driving manuals. This includes over 15 yrs of autoX. I find myself using neutral when I know the light is going to be a while, but leaving it in when the wait is going to be just a moment or two. But then again that's just me......! LOL

 

So, to summarize this tedious thread. Do what you want to! For the record, no mention is made of my standard practice of downshifting than sliding transmission into neutral when approaching a stop sign or traffic light WITHOUT TOUCHING THE CLUTCH PEDAL and using the brakes to stop. Also, the highly intelligent practice of up shifting and skipping gears on the way up. I figure the fewer times the clutch pedal is touched, the longer it will last. Also, my leg thanks me for reduced clutch usage.

 

B
A