R50/53 No Sympathy for this Motorer
Neutral
Joined: Jan 2006
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[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]The one who killed the couple is dead. I strongly suspect that the mini driver will be involuntarily invited to explain his presence on the road in the near future. That is all there is so far, and it is sad, it is unfair, and it stinks. It is also not over.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman']After reading the responses here, if I am ever on the “accused” side of the legal world, I hope my lawyer can spot the “by god, I know what happened” types among us and bounce you from the jury pool in short order. I am betting you can’t really turn it off, so it should be pretty routine.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman']After reading the responses here, if I am ever on the “accused” side of the legal world, I hope my lawyer can spot the “by god, I know what happened” types among us and bounce you from the jury pool in short order. I am betting you can’t really turn it off, so it should be pretty routine.[/FONT]
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,922
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From: Midwest
Originally Posted by cct1
No problem--I see what you meant; just didn't catch it the way it was written. Sometimes exact meanings/emotions are hard to determine on a sterile message board. After simmering down and rereading the posts, I'm sorry if I read something into yours that wasn't intended, as obviosly I misunderstood where you were coming from--my bad.
Having had a close family member--a child, and an innocent bystander--killed by someone racing a motorcycle in a residential neighborhood, this hits a bit close to home--really don't want to create an argument; I'm just a bit bothered by an almost nonchalance in some of the posts to what happend, and the Mini driver's purported role in it.
Having had a close family member--a child, and an innocent bystander--killed by someone racing a motorcycle in a residential neighborhood, this hits a bit close to home--really don't want to create an argument; I'm just a bit bothered by an almost nonchalance in some of the posts to what happend, and the Mini driver's purported role in it.
We're all friends here.
Mikey
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,295
Likes: 1
From: Prescott, AZ, USA
I find it interesting the reaction to street racing on this thread, compared to the split Enzo vs. McLaren SLR street race (because nobody killed I bet).
There should be an APB put out on that MINI; only those who shirk personal responsibility would call it a "witch hunt."
There should be an APB put out on that MINI; only those who shirk personal responsibility would call it a "witch hunt."
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Sounds like the classic gun debate...
1-The guy who shot the gun is guilty
2-If the guy who shot the gun is dead, then the guy who sold the gun is guilty
3-If the guy who sold the gun is dead, then the manufacturer of the gun is guilty
4-If all else fails, blame who ever else is alive linch him with a mob trial
Ah...Good Old US of Stoneage...
Why don't we just focus on the first and only point (then get over it)...the dead guy who actually killed the innocent people is the only one who is guilty...You can't mollify the monster that lives in all of us through a witch hunt. God gave us all free will and some abuse it to the point of no return. We've all trespassed but somehow know where the line is drawn. For those who are prejudging the unknown Mini driver, please don't preach like you're all saints who ride the bicycle to work...afterall, we all know what we drive, don't we? We didn't buy the MINI and Hot Rod it so it gets better gas milage. And please, for the last time, don't be sh!ttn me if you think that I believe for a moment that absolutely no one here has ever raced anyone on the streets...even just a little...I'm tired of this PC BS
:impatient Let's be honest with ourselves? 
BTW...If you think I'm full of it...then ask yourself why we're at the Dragon? Racing Squirls?
1-The guy who shot the gun is guilty
2-If the guy who shot the gun is dead, then the guy who sold the gun is guilty
3-If the guy who sold the gun is dead, then the manufacturer of the gun is guilty
4-If all else fails, blame who ever else is alive linch him with a mob trial
Ah...Good Old US of Stoneage...
Why don't we just focus on the first and only point (then get over it)...the dead guy who actually killed the innocent people is the only one who is guilty...You can't mollify the monster that lives in all of us through a witch hunt. God gave us all free will and some abuse it to the point of no return. We've all trespassed but somehow know where the line is drawn. For those who are prejudging the unknown Mini driver, please don't preach like you're all saints who ride the bicycle to work...afterall, we all know what we drive, don't we? We didn't buy the MINI and Hot Rod it so it gets better gas milage. And please, for the last time, don't be sh!ttn me if you think that I believe for a moment that absolutely no one here has ever raced anyone on the streets...even just a little...I'm tired of this PC BS
:impatient Let's be honest with ourselves? BTW...If you think I'm full of it...then ask yourself why we're at the Dragon? Racing Squirls?
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 358
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Sorry about my previous post, I should use Windows Work with spell check and read before sending, I never went to English school and type with only one finger, my bad, I wonder how much you'll be able to understand but all I can say is I'm not much better when I talk, unless you can speak French. 
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,383
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by zrwon
Sorry about my previous post, I should use Windows Work with spell check and read before sending, I never went to English school and type with only one finger, my bad, I wonder how much you'll be able to understand but all I can say is I'm not much better when I talk, unless you can speak French.
7th Gear Gal
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 36,087
Likes: 3
From: Weeblegabber West (aka WLA)
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
BTW...If you think I'm full of it...then ask yourself why we're at the Dragon? Racing Squirls?
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,383
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From: Houston
Originally Posted by MINIclo
Big difference between an isolated mountain highway like the Dragon, and a busy highway near the Sugar Land airport, full of other motorists, Sid. Not comparable.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted by MINIclo
Big difference between an isolated mountain highway like the Dragon, and a busy highway near the Sugar Land airport, full of other motorists, Sid. Not comparable.
Gosh...I was wondering how I was going to negotiate the traffic with 500 MINIs and bikers on a single two lane highway for the three days
Good thing I'm going to be there a week ahead to avoid all that "peaceful" driving...
7th Gear Gal
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 36,087
Likes: 3
From: Weeblegabber West (aka WLA)
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
The Dragon is isolated? Gosh...I was wondering how I was going to negotiate the traffic with 500 MINIs and bikers on a single two lane highway for the three days
Gosh...I was wondering how I was going to negotiate the traffic with 500 MINIs and bikers on a single two lane highway for the three days
Moderator :: Performance Mods
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,427
Likes: 6
From: A Den in Maryland
This thread is (predictably) going off on tangents. In any case of street racing with accidents/death that I can can recall, the 'other car' that 'got away' was always wanted and tracked down. Perhaps the driver of that car was not held liable for the injuries, but they are almost always held in some way responsible because of the street racing as well as leaving the scene of an accident in many cases. Some have the book thrown at them, their car impounded and tossed in the clink.
Mods on the car dont matter in the least. You can just as effectively make a stoopid move with a stock car as you can with a 500HP MINI. It's how and where you are driving that makes the difference.
Mods on the car dont matter in the least. You can just as effectively make a stoopid move with a stock car as you can with a 500HP MINI. It's how and where you are driving that makes the difference.
2nd Gear
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Hammer
"We don't really know the story, so we can't make any assumptions" - That's all EVERYONE in this thread is doing - making assumptions. Unless you were there, it's all an assumption. Here is another assumption - the person in the Mini is motoring along at the speed limit and doesn't even know there is a Scion behind him/her. The Scion, having his doors blown off by a Mini last week, is determined to catch the Mini and show him what he's got. In the process of trying to catch up to the Mini, the Scion loses control and crashes. The Mini driver never even knew the Scion was trying to catch him/her, never knew what happened behind him/her and thus continued innocently motoring off to the homeless shelter to serve hot meals. Everyone beside and behind the Scion slammed on brakes, making it appear the Mini was "speeding off", when in reality he/she was driving smoothly and cautiously, but at the speed limit, so as not to spill the large pot of fresh soup he/she just cooked for the homeless shelter. The thought of racing never occurred to this Mini driver, given the hot soup he/she was transporting. What the hell ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"
Do I condone street racing - not on your life, my life or any other life. If the FACTS prove that the Mini driver was street racing should they be punished - absolutely. Can any of us, except those who eye-witnessed it, thrash the Mini driver for anything, including driving off to the homeless shelter - no way.
My rant is over, you may continue with your regularly scheduled witch hunt.
Do I condone street racing - not on your life, my life or any other life. If the FACTS prove that the Mini driver was street racing should they be punished - absolutely. Can any of us, except those who eye-witnessed it, thrash the Mini driver for anything, including driving off to the homeless shelter - no way.
My rant is over, you may continue with your regularly scheduled witch hunt.
very analytical .Cheers mate
7th Gear Gal
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 36,087
Likes: 3
From: Weeblegabber West (aka WLA)
Originally Posted by MINIotaple
Hahahahah.... Don't talk about the Sugar Land airport. You're making it seem like it's heavily trafficked. It isn't. It only has those small personal planes... Plus, highway 6 is typically pretty empty and it is like a 6 lane highway, 3 in each direction. Just saying...
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Does anyone else see the BIG Elephant in the room that no one wants to look at? If anyone seriously believe that no Minis are speeding throught the Dragon...well...nevermind then...ignorance is bliss...I see nuuuuuuthing...
Moderator :: Performance Mods
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,427
Likes: 6
From: A Den in Maryland
People will be doing things "they should not be doing" at the Dragon. That is an immutable fact. However, those who do take the responsibility unto themselves, and if something should go wrong, they had better own up to their actions. The thing is, I believe that most if not all of us here would do just that. We know not to cross that yella line or drive beyond our capacities. We have been pretty gat damn lucky with our last three events. It's up to everyone to be smart about it.
The bottom line is this: If you speed, cross the line, whatever, be it at the Dragon or anywhere else, and you cause an accident or otherwise hurt someone, be prepared to pay for it. It's that simple.
The bottom line is this: If you speed, cross the line, whatever, be it at the Dragon or anywhere else, and you cause an accident or otherwise hurt someone, be prepared to pay for it. It's that simple.
Thread Starter
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5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 674
Likes: 0
From: Seattle, WA
Originally Posted by zrwon
Amen Mickey, I'm with you, I'm 45 years old and have been racing on the street since I was 16 and not only cars, whatever has wheels, Concrete mixer trucks loaded, gravel trucks, Corvettes, Camaros, street rods, Hondas, you name it I raced it, anyone who wanted a piece of me, I raced, I even drove drunk, in those days it was common, atually I was not a drinker like my friends used to be, they were drinking every week, I don't drink but I had a few beers at friends places when I was young and I got behind the wheels like they did, I even street raced while drunk, it was the way it was where I came from, never got an accident, not even a scratch on my car, my dad was the same way, 4 kids in the car going to grand-ma at 120 mph every weekends he even had bald tires with the cords sticking out, and we never used seat belts, my sisters were fighting in the back seat and he would try to stop them while driving 120, it was just the way it was.
I stopped racing a few years ago after almost getting caught, a friend of mine got caught and had his car seized, then our police dep. bought a chopper and started going after street racers, so I quit, I didn't want them to touch my car, but I never hurt anyone and since I was brought up that way, I didn't know any better but now with the internet and see the consequences and all the horror stories that we hear, I don't want even feel like doing this, I learned to use my cruise control in order to stay within the posted limit and after reading all these posts, I put myslef in the shoes of the MINI driver and I know it could have been me and the more I try to put myself in his shoes and the more I read the coments posted on here, the more I realize what he must think if he is also reading this and this is a good wake up call for all of us, why was I spare, I don't know but if I was to write every stupid thing that I have done, nobody on this list would ever talk to me again, I survived and never hurt anyone in the process and I'm sure glad because you guys really made me feel how bad and how glad I never hurt anyone but mostly you gave me one more reason for not doing this ever again, I will always think from now on, how about if the other guy can't drive, how about if he hit someone and I have to take responsabilty for our actions, this thread just shook the hell out of me, it is my biggest wake up call, I never thought about being responsible for the ohter driver as much as for myself, now I can see that even if I don't hit anything, I'm just as responsible if the other guy does and this is serious, I never thought about it this way and 99% of the time, I had never met the other driver, I didn't know if he was sober, didn't even know if he had stolen that car, but now there will always be that what if???
So here, you've got it, hit me if you like, it won't change what I've done, hate me if you like, I don't know you and you don't know me, throw me in the slammer all you want, it won't change a thing, what is done is done and I'm thankful I never hurt anyone in the process, now can you please wait for the facts before accusing this guy, maybe he didn't even see the crash, maybe the MINI was a stolen car, just wait and see, there is nothing we can do or say until then, maybe the MINI driver hanged himself after reading this, does that make you any better? think about it and wait for the facts.
I stopped racing a few years ago after almost getting caught, a friend of mine got caught and had his car seized, then our police dep. bought a chopper and started going after street racers, so I quit, I didn't want them to touch my car, but I never hurt anyone and since I was brought up that way, I didn't know any better but now with the internet and see the consequences and all the horror stories that we hear, I don't want even feel like doing this, I learned to use my cruise control in order to stay within the posted limit and after reading all these posts, I put myslef in the shoes of the MINI driver and I know it could have been me and the more I try to put myself in his shoes and the more I read the coments posted on here, the more I realize what he must think if he is also reading this and this is a good wake up call for all of us, why was I spare, I don't know but if I was to write every stupid thing that I have done, nobody on this list would ever talk to me again, I survived and never hurt anyone in the process and I'm sure glad because you guys really made me feel how bad and how glad I never hurt anyone but mostly you gave me one more reason for not doing this ever again, I will always think from now on, how about if the other guy can't drive, how about if he hit someone and I have to take responsabilty for our actions, this thread just shook the hell out of me, it is my biggest wake up call, I never thought about being responsible for the ohter driver as much as for myself, now I can see that even if I don't hit anything, I'm just as responsible if the other guy does and this is serious, I never thought about it this way and 99% of the time, I had never met the other driver, I didn't know if he was sober, didn't even know if he had stolen that car, but now there will always be that what if???
So here, you've got it, hit me if you like, it won't change what I've done, hate me if you like, I don't know you and you don't know me, throw me in the slammer all you want, it won't change a thing, what is done is done and I'm thankful I never hurt anyone in the process, now can you please wait for the facts before accusing this guy, maybe he didn't even see the crash, maybe the MINI was a stolen car, just wait and see, there is nothing we can do or say until then, maybe the MINI driver hanged himself after reading this, does that make you any better? think about it and wait for the facts.
Discussion is what makes this forum great, and the discussions, sometimes bordering on insulting or disrespectful, whatever, still work for the better. I think that we can look at this thread in particular where the original article created a greater debate for the "greater good"
By the way, NEVER have I raced on the street. I have had 2 tickets in my life, both before I was 20 and both for less than 10 over. I am not a pc thug, I am not lying. I DO NOT RACE! Its stupid and puts too many lives in danger. I have a "family" and have always had family and friends, and I would never want to leave them, either for jail or death, over something as stupid as street racing.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
From: portland, SLC, Aspen
that guy in the evo was a retard. why would you would want to burn through your tires so fast. he must have been getting a kick out of lapping all those other cars that could kick his ***. those super sevens and elises.
Originally Posted by MSFIT
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted by Greatbear
People will be doing things "they should not be doing" at the Dragon. That is an immutable fact. However, those who do take the responsibility unto themselves, and if something should go wrong, they had better own up to their actions. The thing is, I believe that most if not all of us here would do just that. We know not to cross that yella line or drive beyond our capacities. We have been pretty gat damn lucky with our last three events. It's up to everyone to be smart about it.
The bottom line is this: If you speed, cross the line, whatever, be it at the Dragon or anywhere else, and you cause an accident or otherwise hurt someone, be prepared to pay for it. It's that simple.
The bottom line is this: If you speed, cross the line, whatever, be it at the Dragon or anywhere else, and you cause an accident or otherwise hurt someone, be prepared to pay for it. It's that simple.
That's the distinction between speeding and wreckless driving. Can we just face the fact that we all do some "friendly racing" now and then? Let's be honest...I'm not talking 100mph through dense traffic...you know...that moment when you stepped on the gas a little harder so you get a smirk just to be slightly ahead of the other guy? Reeeelly? You've never done that? Virgin too? No way....Getting back to the topic...all I'm saying is that I agree the the minority that no one should prejudge the unknown Mini owner. He may be guilty, but it is not our place to decide...that's why we have a court system...
6th Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by willymcd
that guy in the evo was a retard. why would you would want to burn through your tires so fast. he must have been getting a kick out of lapping all those other cars that could kick his ***. those super sevens and elises.
seriously...i don't understand why you would insult him...he had great car control through all the turns but went in too hot on the last one...im sure if he was slower into it there would have been no problems...and he can probably tear up a track better than you...
I don't know the driver at all..but it just gets to me that you call him retarded for drifting...
I'd like to hear your thoughts on this video then..
http://videos.dtmpower.net/recentvid...25F62B0CB4.htm
and sorry for going way off-topic
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 0
From: Houston
Originally Posted by MINIclo
Look, anymore disrespectful comments and this thread will be locked. The news report stated that there was a lot of traffic, this is not speculation on my part.
7th Gear Gal
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 36,087
Likes: 3
From: Weeblegabber West (aka WLA)
Originally Posted by MINIotaple
I'm sorry if you saw it as disrespectful, but I was just stating a fact. You spectulated that since it was an airport it must be heavily trafficked. I just pointed out it doesn't have any type of large passenger planes going into it.
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 0
From: Houston
Originally Posted by MINIclo
The news report stated that there was a lot of traffic on the road at the time of the accident. I was merely posting based on reading the report.
7th Gear Gal
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 36,087
Likes: 3
From: Weeblegabber West (aka WLA)
Originally Posted by MINIotaple
By the way, where are you getting your Sugar Land news. I type in Arnold Jamir's name and police I don't get anything on google.
Moderator :: Performance Mods
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,427
Likes: 6
From: A Den in Maryland
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
Absolutely That's the distinction between speeding and wreckless driving. Can we just face the fact that we all do some "friendly racing" now and then? Let's be honest...I'm not talking 100mph through dense traffic...you know...that moment when you stepped on the gas a little harder so you get a smirk just to be slightly ahead of the other guy? Reeeelly? You've never done that? Virgin too? No way....
Getting back to the topic...all I'm saying is that I agree the the minority that no one should prejudge the unknown Mini owner. He may be guilty, but it is not our place to decide...that's why we have a court system...
That's the distinction between speeding and wreckless driving. Can we just face the fact that we all do some "friendly racing" now and then? Let's be honest...I'm not talking 100mph through dense traffic...you know...that moment when you stepped on the gas a little harder so you get a smirk just to be slightly ahead of the other guy? Reeeelly? You've never done that? Virgin too? No way....Getting back to the topic...all I'm saying is that I agree the the minority that no one should prejudge the unknown Mini owner. He may be guilty, but it is not our place to decide...that's why we have a court system...
As for that MINI owner way back from the beginning of the thread, I dont presume to know his situation. I am going by what the news article said regarding the police statements, and what I know has been the case in similar incidents. Since the police are after him, it would behoove him to come clean rather than have them find him first.
