--How sick! The JCW was beaten out by the GTI. Check it out at:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/

Also don't forget to vote for your favorite car (the MINI of course!) at their side poll near the bottom right of the main page.

Which hot hatch from "Battle of the Badges" would you choose?
Honda Civic Si
Mini Cooper S "JCW"
Volkswagen GTI

Currently the JCW only has 21% of the votes. WTF? Vote MINI and let's triumph over the tyranny of the evil civic and "GERRRRRMAN ENGINEERING"

 

I know magazines take a long time to get to Hawaii but...
Merge? https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=62302

Edit: nice save on the thread topic! I went and voted MCS too

 

Looking at the test numbers, the Mini and the GTI are dead even to 60 mph (6.3 seconds) and just one-tenth of a second apart at the quarter mile, where the VW's 14.8 edges out the Mini's 14.9. The Cooper S still feels like it pulls marginally harder, and it might, but the GTI's seamless DSG shifts erase any time advantage the conventionally shifted Mini may enjoy. Both cars are barely quicker than the normally aspirated Civic Si (6.6 sec., 15.0 sec.), which gives away loads of torque to its supercharged and turbocharged compatriots. Move to Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch's 1.5-mile West Loop, however, and the Mini suddenly comes into its own. This is where the chassis shines, producing the biggest grins and the fastest lap times of the day. Compared with the Civic Si and especially the GTI, the Cooper S feels especially light on its feet and easy to position (and reposition) anywhere on the track.
Of our trio, the Mini's chassis is the most responsive to steering and throttle inputs. The ultra-quick steering ratio makes changing direction a snap, the front end reacting with excellent grip and minimal body roll. Rotating the car mid-turn is just as easy, with measured throttle modulation either tucking in the nose or rotating the tail. This makes it easier to adjust the Mini's attitude approaching the apex and get on the power sooner than with either the GTI or Si. The JCW's limited-slip differential also helps, reducing wheelspin and more effectively pulling it through corners.



sounds like a win to me!

 

The important statistic is on the last page:

Driving excitement (20 pts):

VW: 15.7
Honda: 16.0
MINI: 20.0

Isn't that why we all have one?

Paul

 

Gabe has a blurb on his site this morning:

http://motoringfile.com/2006/03/23/c...jcw-mcs-in-rt/

Donna

 

R&T has a serious issue with the weighing of points. "Driving Excitement" is only 20 pts, yet there are two categories for braking at 30 each. Same goes with handling. And MINI beat the pants off the others in those categories. In otherwords, R&T doesn't care so much about driving excitement or handling, more utility. Sounds more like Consumer Reports. Guess why I don't subscribe to either magazine?

 

??? So the mags don't give the answers that you want so you dont read them?

 

So much for MINIs being the king of the twisties. Honda time in slalom was 1 second faster.

 

Right-On, Man!!

...anyway, the VW looks like a 'Scion' now.

 

The goal was to pick the best overall car, not the enthusiast's choice. In R&T's mind, the Honda was a marginally better overall package and the VW was a bit better. We all know the Mini is quirky and flawed - the test just confirms it.

The same thing happened when the Exige and the Cayman were compared (in Car and Driver no less). The Exige was touted as a track car - the true enthusiasts choice, while the Cayman was the better overall car for it's features, amenities and civility.

Sometime coming in third isn't that bad........I would rather the Mini come in third but be the hands down enthusiast's choice than have it come in first because the cupholders were better ergonomically designed or the rear seat was more accessible.

Would we all be questioning the results if the Mini came in first but the VW got the nod in "Driving Excitement"? You bet we would........

 

Yep, this pretty much says it all.

 

A fair evaluation! Wouldn't all of us be offended if we were referred to as "mainstream"?

 

Sorry, I don't consider parking lot maneuvering to be the real test of automotive machinery. Let's look at the road course results.

 

Sounds like midnight financing for the '05 (may it rest in peace)

 

Put them on the same tires and wheels and the Mini would own the Civic. No doubt about it. At least with someone competent driving both cars. I assume they had their JCW on Runcraps? If so, thats why the Mini was slower. :-) Also, if they did the 1/4 mile and 0-60 tests with the Mini on S-lites, anything lighter would provide the quickest times. I have to assume the GTI and Civics wheels/tires don't weight 50+lbs in 17". Lol.

Craig

 

Don't over-react. It was actually a fair article, we're all just extreeeeeemely biased! Look, all three cars are worthy adversaries, of that there is no doubt. But by them picking the GTI and SI ahead of the MINI shouldn't be a surprise. The MINI's ride IS harsh and stiff (to most drivers). The interior IS quirky (to most drivers). The cargo capacity and rear seat room IS pathetic (to most drivers). So I can totally see why, FOR THE MASSES, the other cars beat out the MINI.

For folks who rank fun-to-drive above most everything else, (you and me), the MINI obviously wins, just like the article states!

Again, I think the article was fair, and on the mark.

 

I would have to agree with that! I mean, what other car would you waste your lunch-hour on? Besides, do we all really need the validation from a car mag? I bought the car for its heritage, its looks, its performance (which is quite good overall), and the fact that its still, relatively, unique. IMHO

 

"Despite its rough ride and twitchy in-town manners, the Mini Cooper S is a hoot that many hard-core enthusiasts would still give the nod over the other two. Its excellent power and light weight make it the purist performer of the bunch, but too many little quirks hurt its overall appeal. Help is on the way in the form of an all-new 2007 Mini, which could turn the tide."

I think this article is more a reflection of the politics of publishing than anything else. These guys have to say something to earn a living but watch what they say. Lots of VW ads on those pages. I like my Mini how it is and bought it for the quirks.

 

i think the article is fair ...

but that GTI still looks to me like a 2 door Toyota Matrix ... damn shame though, as I would really consider one as my next possible car ... but its looks are horrendous

 

When I saw the pics of the MINI with the 18" wheels, I predicted that it would not be an easy test for the MINI. The loss of performance plus the added $1400.00 would tip the scales in favor of the other cars in the test. I have an 06 JCW with the 18" JCW wheels for summer and 16" Kosei's with Xice tires for winter. I also have a set of 16" X-lite wheels and there is a huge difference in the acceleration, braking, cornering and ride between the different wheels. Granted, if they had not added the optional 18" wheels, the car would have come with 17"s which are not as light as the 16's I have, but I'm certain that it would have made the difference between 3rd and 2nd place and maybe even 1st. Our car is about 3/10's of a second slower 0-60 mph with the 18's than the 16's, the braking distances increase and the ride suffers as well. I can't comment on the cornering grip because the 18's are summer performance tire and the 16's have winter tires. I'm disappointed with the 3rd place but feel, despite the bad wheel choice, that the MINI won or tied in the categories that I find important. The GTI and SI are both brand new cars and the MINI is 5 years old already, we'll have to wait until the 07 MINI comes out for a re-match.

 

Can 18" wheels really be that bad for performance?

Here are the R&T handling stats for an 2002 MCS vs the 2006 JCW (of course, stats are just stats... could have been good & bad test drivers):

2002 MCS (on 17" S-lites with Performance Runflats)
Lat G: 0.87
Slalom: 69.5
From Here

2006 JCW
Lat G: 0.86
Slalom: 66.2
From Here

Thought I read somewhere that Mini has softened up the suspension since it first came out? I'm glad I just picked up a set of ultralight 16s .

 

For me......... I would not consider either of the other two cars......I am not their customer...... I like the personality of the Mini......

 

That is dead on! I refer to this as "It's a MINI thing, you wouldn't understand." When speaking to a couple of GTI friends.

-Randy

 

I would add that to the extent value adds anything to the discussion (which may not be much) the JCW is at a minimum a $30K car while each of the others start in the low $20s.

 

I think that the article seemed pretty fair. I actually got to drive my friend's brand new Civic Si last night. I actually liked it. The car is extremely ergonomic. You barely have to move your hands to drive it. That being said, it felt big, and of course wasn't nearly as nimble or responsive in my opinion.

I looked at Civics when I was shopping, I like them, but everyone has one, and I think that's the real reason we all have Mini's, their different. Unique, and not in a bad way.

That's what sold me. (Well that and you know, everything else about the car)