Originally Posted by Aviators

Move to Spring Mountain Motorsports Ranch's 1.5-mile West Loop, however, and the Mini suddenly comes into its own. This is where the chassis shines, producing the biggest grins and the fastest lap times of the day. Compared with the Civic Si and especially the GTI, the Cooper S feels especially light on its feet and easy to position (and reposition) anywhere on the track.
Of our trio, the Mini's chassis is the most responsive to steering and throttle inputs. The ultra-quick steering ratio makes changing direction a snap, the front end reacting with excellent grip and minimal body roll. Rotating the car mid-turn is just as easy, with measured throttle modulation either tucking in the nose or rotating the tail. This makes it easier to adjust the Mini's attitude approaching the apex and get on the power sooner than with either the GTI or Si. The JCW's limited-slip differential also helps, reducing wheelspin and more effectively pulling it through corners.

Originally Posted by chows4us

??? So the mags don't give the answers that you want so you dont read them?

Originally Posted by jwardell

I have just seen several examples of some magazines that weigh things that don't matter as much in my opinion. Others do. So you should subscribe to the mags that match your opinions and interests, and then you can take their reviews more seriously.

Originally Posted by chows4us

Wow, dude .... thats like looking for other people to backup your opinions without looking at the whole set of issues holistically. Its like "proof by assertion", i.e., Its true cause I say its true and I'm gonna find others to back me up.

In practical terms, isn't it better to read ALL the reviews to get All sides of the arguement than just reading what you want that backs up your point of view

Maybe, must maybe, you might find something you chose not to read that might change your mind on some issue.

I will give you ONE example. Researching an Elise, I read 0 - 60 in 4.4 from one mag. Factory claims 4.9. Other Mags claim 4.9 ... Should you just ignore what the factory and other mags have to say because you like the 4.4 number better :impatient

Originally Posted by Electric Shock

Chows, I agree with you.

I find it interesting that mostly we MINI people regard ourselves as unique and different. Yet some find it difficult to another point of view that is different from ours.

Others have made that point in this thread in a slightly different way. We like the MINI for many reasons, It does not have to be number one in every test and in everyone's eyes. Give room for others that don't see it our way. If everyone saw it our way, then we would not be uniquue would we?

Originally Posted by chows4us

Wow, dude .... thats like looking for other people to backup your opinions without looking at the whole set of issues holistically. Its like "proof by assertion", i.e., Its true cause I say its true and I'm gonna find others to back me up.

In practical terms, isn't it better to read ALL the reviews to get All sides of the arguement than just reading what you want that backs up your point of view

Maybe, must maybe, you might find something you chose not to read that might change your mind on some issue.

I will give you ONE example. Researching an Elise, I read 0 - 60 in 4.4 from one mag. Factory claims 4.9. Other Mags claim 4.9 ... Should you just ignore what the factory and other mags have to say because you like the 4.4 number better :impatient

Originally Posted by snapper

Can 18" wheels really be that bad for performance?

Here are the R&T handling stats for an 2002 MCS vs the 2006 JCW (of course, stats are just stats... could have been good & bad test drivers):

2002 MCS (on 17" S-lites with Performance Runflats)
Lat G: 0.87
Slalom: 69.5
From Here

2006 JCW
Lat G: 0.86
Slalom: 66.2
From Here

Thought I read somewhere that Mini has softened up the suspension since it first came out? I'm glad I just picked up a set of ultralight 16s .

Originally Posted by Bilbo-Baggins

I'm glad that I am not the only one to pick up on this. I could never figure out why people were putting 17", 18" or 19" wheels on their cars.

The softening that you talk about was only a re-valving of the shocks with no changes to the spring rates or anti-sway bars. I immediately noticed the change after up-gradeing from my early '02 MCS to my current '06 MCS. The differences are mostly over small sharp edged bumps or potholes. The overall handling does not appear to have changed, you can still throw it into a corner as easily and quickly as before.

On a related preformance issue, one of the quickest 0 - 60 times I have ever seen posted, by a national magazine, for an '05 or '06 MCS was one that was tested wearing 16" Dunlop all-season tires in 195/55-16. Weight is important !!!!! If my memory is correct I believe the time posted was 6.4 seconds (no idea of the conditions, but they must have been pretty darn good)

Originally Posted by jonnieoh

Don't over-react. It was actually a fair article, we're all just extreeeeeemely biased! Look, all three cars are worthy adversaries, of that there is no doubt. But by them picking the GTI and SI ahead of the MINI shouldn't be a surprise. The MINI's ride IS harsh and stiff (to most drivers). The interior IS quirky (to most drivers). The cargo capacity and rear seat room IS pathetic (to most drivers). So I can totally see why, FOR THE MASSES, the other cars beat out the MINI.

For folks who rank fun-to-drive above most everything else, (you and me), the MINI obviously wins, just like the article states!

Again, I think the article was fair, and on the mark.

Originally Posted by snapper

Can 18" wheels really be that bad for performance?

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