I would and I will buy another Mini

 

Skyydiver,
How one asks a question many times determines the answer. And the answer may be misleading when details are left out.

It appears that MINI owners would buy again and have no regrets about buying one the first time, even though that had "bad" buying and reliability experiences. The problem is the definition of "bad." "Bad" to me can be and is "great" to some others. On another post one person posted that he had very few and minor problems. I asked him to list his problems, and he listed: engine replaced, transmission replaced twice, O2 sensor twice, re-re-re-re-reprogramming, plus others=total about 12. I asked him why he consider these to be minor problems and his reply was that he got a loaner car and it didn't cost him anything for the repairs. So, now I understand where he is coming from and I respect and appreciate him sharing the details. Clearly what is good for him is definitely bad bad bad for me.

I see great similarities between MINI and Harley owners. MINI and Harley bring their product to market almost exactly the same way. Owners are in general very loyal and forgiving of the product, no matter what. Some even have truly minor problems, even by my definition of minor.

Of course on these internet boards we have many MINI and MINI product sales persons - - not exactly objective witnesses, and there data feedback may need some level of filtering.

I am looking forward to seeing hundreds of replys to the thread started to get inputs from those who have had no or minor problems with their MINI's.

 

Boy, this is a tough question for me.

The Mini is really a GREAT car for the money. But, I HATE debt. Hate it. So, I bought for cash a 98 MB c230, and I've been driving that (as a winter car to keep miles and wear off of the Mini), and I'm considering selling the MCS. So, if I had to do it over again, I guess I would say no, I would have simply bought the MB, and then in the future once I had the cash I would probably have bought a Mini. BUT, if buying a new car, then yes. My main thing is the fact that I dislike the payment.

 

Wow. Was the face necessary? That is strong stuff!

Your point is understood and certainly has some legitimacy. OTOH, while certainly not all, I would have to say that there is a large percentage of us on NAM who were MINI owners/fans long before we got into careers that allow us to profit from the MINI. I bought a MINI and 10 months later began working at the dealership. Now, 2.5 years later, I continue to think of myself more as a humble MINI fanatic than as an opportunistic proselytizer, thank you very much!

 

This is my first post, although I have lurked on this site for one year. Here is my story:

I lusted after the MINI for about two years. I found this site last year and read avidly for about four months, but stayed on the fence about ordering one because of the many problems I read about. In fact, I put in two orders for an 05 and cancelled both. I finally ordered my dream: an 05 Liquid Yellow S, with all packages. I gave into my emotions, against my rational side whispering to me not to jump from 15 years of Honda ownership. Yes, I love Hondas. I love cars... I've had Corvairs, 'Stangs, "wide tracking Pontiacs", a Fiat Spyder, etc., but I love reliability best of all.

She arrived in June, and was she ever the beauty. I would go out into the garage at night to just stare at her.

Then the niggling doubts began. My beauty had a nasty rattle in the passenger window/door from day one. I thought I could live with it until the first oil change. After all, the dealer was way the opposite way from where I work. Then came the dash rattles. Yes, a slap would usually take care of them. But, the buzz from that gorgeous speedo didn't respond to my slaps. The rattle that started behind my head in the rear passenger seat drove me nuts.

I dreaded the cold start issues, and felt relief that my beauty didn't have THAT problem. Until late September, when fall settles into the beautiful Northwest. My stomach sank the afternoon I started her up to leave my work parking lot. I pulled out into the street, and the dreaded "no power for a couple seconds" happened. I thanked the goddesses that I didn't zip out in front of another car, or I would have been smashed. So, from that day until last week, I just let her run for about 35 seconds until that sickening low rev dip and "almost going to stop shudder" went away. She never stalled, though. My neighbor, a MINI fanatic, had gleefully shared with me that our local dealer said just use regular gas. I couldn't bring myself to do this, due to all the posts I read here, and the worry that MINI would never stand behind a warranty issue because of using regular gas.

From the beginning, my beauty had a dirty poo stain from the rear windshield wiper. Ridiculous. I am fanatic about checking oil/coolant, etc. I couldn't believe that after two months the coolant level was far below the minimum level. I couldn't detect any leaks on the garage floor, but? And, why oh why, did the passenger seat (leatherette) have a hefty lump in the middle? Were her seat innards all messed up?

Seattle and Tacoma (areas I traverse regularly) have quite the hills. I have driven manuals for decades. However, she just didn't seem to like our hills for some reason. Maybe it was the DSC. Maybe it was me. But, on rainy hills, her little behind like to shake and shudder. Not fun. She loved trying to roll backwards when getting into gear to tackle those hills.

Yes, I could have replaced those 17 inch S-lite run flats. Every bone was jarred on our rough freeways, but she was divine on our new stretches of freeways.

For many, these issues are "quirks" and personality. I just couldn't get past the question, "Are these issues symptomatic of larger quality control issues?" I had a hefty investment in this little beauty. I expected more, but wasn't surprised to find the same issues others have complained about on NAM.

I expect the flames here. When the 06 Honda Civic was released, I felt the pull to return home to rock solid reliability, quality and safety. So, last Friday, after Thanksgiving, I gave thanks to a lesson learned. My beauty was the greatest driver I've had, that's for sure. However, for me, getting up every morning and expecting that I'll have a car that won't let me down is more important.

So, I went and test drove the new 06 Hondas. The EX rocks. But, what surprised me was the quality and yes, fun factor, of the Honda Civic Hybrid. What a looker. Love that new two-tiered dash.

So, I have proudly driven my 06 Honda Civic Hybrid for a week, averaging 46 mpg. I love the quiet start, the quiet ride, the ease of climbing hills. I am in love with her.
I guess I didn't know myself that well.

Yes, I feel sadness at the loss of my little MINI. I expected so much.

So, no, I would not buy a MINI again.

Minimam
Former owner of a 2005 Liquid Yellow/Liquid Yellow MINI Cooper S (5,000 miles)

 

You won't get any flames from me. Beautifully written synopsis of your trist with MINI. What I think is important is that you LOVE your car and it does what YOU need it to do.
Yes, my MINI (Zeus) is brand new and yes, I do go into the garage at times just to "check in" on him...worst of all I can't find enough excuses to go to the corner store. I'm sure he'll get a rattle or squeek soon enough but I'm willing to accept that. I'm also okay if he gets a little lump or two in his factory seats as for me it'll be an excuse to move into some racing seats...hmmm, JCW? Recaro? Being a past owner of an Acura (Honda in sheeps clothing) I have to say that I did not LOVE that car. It was nice - fully loaded with any toy there was to offer but something for ME was still missing. That something is what I found in Zeus. Glad to hear you are enjoying your Civic. I'm sure the thousands or even tens of thousand other Civic drivers enjoy theirs too.

 

You won't get any flames from me. Beautifully written synopsis of your trist with MINI. What I think is important is that you LOVE your car and it does what YOU need it to do.

I love your phrase "your trist with MINI". Indeed, I feel like it was a trist. Those lovely poignant love affairs that linger in ones memory long after the last hug, last kiss. That is how I feel about my trist with MINI. If I had more wealth, I would have kept her as "the affair on the side". My goddess, was she gorgeous.
Sigh.

Minimam

 

...maybe you should have found a friend here sooner...but i'm sure there's a fun gathering of Civic owners in the world somewhere :impatient ...just messing with you...enjoy the silence

 

Haven't read all the other posts, but I'll chime in here.
'04 MCS April build, just over 23000 right now, no problems at all. I really enjoy this car, its my daily, used for most family outings and is my auto-x car as well. Been to dealer 2x, once for oil change and once cause a big rock hit the windshield and started a crack (the dealer replaced it for free! )

Shelly

 

I am very familiar with the Seattle/Tacoma areas and hope to live there one day. I love the Pacific Northwest! I am getting tired of the never ending hurricanes downhere in Florida and forecasters are predicting DECADES of non-stop storms....No thanks!

Like you, I was a RABID Honda/Acura owner and owned nothing but Accords, TLs and Integras for 12 years. Nice solid cars, but towards the end they all bored me to tears, I was ready for something completely new and different.(Thanks MINI!)

In '02 we bought our first MINI, a Cooper CVT. 38 months later and 34K miles we still love the car. Not a single problem. It is my wife's hard working daily driver. It has been to 11 states in the East Coast and has climbed hills up and down with not a single complaint. Its delivering 35MPG on the city, no ratttles and still looks brand new. When people look at it they can't believe this is a 3+ year old car.

Then in '04 I decided to get a MINI for myself and sold my fairly realible 2001 Chevy Impala LS (Yes I went to the dark side for a few years after my honeymoon with Honda was over) and ordered a new 2004 MCS. Not a single problem with that baby and kept it for 17K miles. Sold it for $700 above of what I paid for it new 1 year and a half earlier on a private sale.

Then I ordered an identical 2005 MCS replacement, which I took home on March 20th, 2005 and has not been back for the dealer for ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING (Zero rattles, issues) in over 9 months of ownership. My MCS is not a garage beauty queen that only gets driven on Sundays back and forth to church... It is a hard working daily driver and feels better as the miles pile up. Currently I have nearly 7K miles.

Same as you, aside from the inherit boredom I perceive in Honda products, I have no real complaints about their quality but to be honest, my last Acura TL, a Japanese built 1997 2.5L version, had many issues (And the brakes were horrendous) during the first 10K-15K miles of ownership. Beautifully crafted automobile (I still think Japanese TLs were better than the current crappy USA made ones) but dissapointing for a car that retailed for $30K brand new in 1997.

I helped my sister get a new car during the summer and I got her behind the wheel of a new 2005 Honda Accord Value Package 4-speed automatic. Nice family car for the price, and the 4 cyl 2.3L engine feels very peppy but the car still has that "appliance" feel when I drive it. After I drive her Accord for an hour or two I find myself grabbing the keys to either my MC or MCS to get a "fixed" of real quality driving. Yes, Hondas are still boring after all these years....

Funny, because my sister really wants a MINI, but at this point in time she can't afford one. She has her eyes set on the upcoming 2008 MINI clubman wagon, at which time her '05 Accord VP lease is set to expire.

I have seen and touch the new Civics. Nice cars. I hated Civics from 1992 to 2005 model year. To me the best Civics were made between 1988-91. I see that Honda is finally going back to its roots with the new 2006 generation and yes the dashboard is very futuristic looking but I personally dislike the extremely steeply raked windshield (It bothers me a lot) and the deeeeeeep dashboard. It feels like driving a minivan or a VW Beetle, not a small car.

The Civic 4 door sedan looks much better than the coupe model in my opinion. They did a great job with the design. I was already losing hope with the designers at Honda. But I also find it dissapointing that no hatchback (Much more practical than either sedan or coupe)version will be offered in this new generation and the fun to drive CRX 2 seater has not been resurrected either. The 88-91 CRX was the Japanese MINI Cooper of the time. Anothe rlost opportunity by Honda. I guess the upcoming Honda Fit will be the only hatchback option in the Honda product line.

Would I trade my MC and MCS for a new Civic? No way! The quality, realibility, safety, cool factor and resale value are simply unmatched by the Honda. Speaking of reliability.... Honda had to recall 25K new '06 Civic sedans because the accelerator pedal cable may get stuck, thus compromising the driver's ability to control the vehicle? See, quality and reliability are not greener on the other side of the yeard. Every single car manfacturer in this planet is suffering from quality control issues, even the "Invencible" Japan, inc. Have you read about the scandal surrounding the Toyota Prius Hybrid? They stall in the middle of the highway! A defetc in the ECU controlling software. A Toyota with bad PR due to inflated mileage claims and now safety problems? Wow! unheard of! but that is the reality in this cut throat automotive business.

I commend the fact that you are a hard core Honda fan and you will not be happy in any other vehicle that is not a Honda Motor Co. LTD product. The MINI is obviously not for you and when you bought it you already came into the relationship expecting problems to crop up. Not exactly a very open mind if you will.

You are happy with your Civic Hybrid, I much, much prefer my MINIs any day of the week, hills and all (But we don't have hills or the beautiful roads you people have up in Washington State here in Miami).

 

MINImam: you did what you needed to do, we all understand that happy driving in your new civic :smile:

it took me a while to do it, but im over the moon in MINI number 2
(well im happy, but shes not... i am still learning to drive her )

 

Minimam,

I imagine there are lots of folks like you... drawn into the Mini because it is a cute looking car and then disappointed with it over the things many of us are in love with it for! First of all, especially with the "S", it really is a sports car. With tight suspension and the things that make it handle great you end up with a rougher ride... That's not for everyone! I LOVE the engine and exhaust noise but some like a quite ride.

The first thing I would say to a potential owner is don't be fooled!!! Yes, its cute but it really has the devil in it! It sounds to me like you are much more suited to a new Civic. Honda makes a great car and I must say the new Civics, in my opinion, are the best they've EVER looked (Really cool!). Enjoy your new car!

 

Well, actually there is a cool hatchback version but it doesn't look like they will offer it in the states which is really too bad



[img]http://www.autoweek.nl/images/800/2015744.jpg/img]


Autoblog info: http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000917052811/

As for the realiabilty, safety and hills issues Minimam says I'll add my .02:
Reliability: I've had several Hondas in the past and they were not immune to problems - windows regulators replaces, stereo issues, little things akin to the annoyances that crop up in the Mini (a friend even had an engine fail in an S2k) - Hondas are certainly not perfect and they have their recalls too and I would not say it is an assumed 'rock solid' on quality or reliability in the long run at all.

Safety: The Mini is very safe, I don't think that going Honda is a step up here whatsoever.

Hills: Not many places have more or steeper hills then San Francisco and we have no problems - the auto does make it much more pleasant then it was with the 03 stick but in any case it was par for the course.

On another issue tho, in my experience the Honda service around here is the best though, so that would be something to consider.

Anyway, I think Minimam is operating under a lot of biases and assumptions, its really just a mental safe place then reality, but whatever makes her happy is the point of course.

 

Coming up to my anniversary of picking up my MINI, the short answer is YES. I would definintely consider buying another MINI if I need this type of vehicle (good car for commuting and personal transportation, great value for money).

My MINI has not been without problems. The fan blower didn't work when I picked up my car. The supercharger has been replaced due to strange rattling noises coming out of it. However, the ownership experience and the service/support has been exemplary. The problem gets fixed the first time and I'm not treated like a lout.

I've had Toyotas, Chryslers, and GM cars in the past and the ownership experience has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. The only other brand where I've had great treatment after the sale was Mercedes Benz, but they are pricey. Come to think of it, not a whole lot more pricey than GM.

I'd buy another MINI because of the great dealership/service treatment, the MINI community on boards such as this and the MINI culture. Makes owning the car fun.

Honda has a culture of their own also. But the MINI culture, in my opinion, is far more diverse.

 

I know I may be paranoid and all, BUT as someone said, "just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you."

In that vein, does ANYONE know what the history of labor negotiations and contracts is for the manufacturing plant in Oxford. Both before and since they became MINI? I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the quality issues, outlandish posts both here and at MINI2 sound an awful lot like some disgruntled present or former employee.

MINI2 had a post from a supposed "former owner" about nearly burning up in her car, it came out of nowhere and left again nearly as fast. They surmised it just wasn't a true post. Bitter labor battles can bring out a lot of bad blood, and what safer place to tear at a company or their product but behind the anonymity of a computer/internet connection?

I am surmising that even the poor quality builds that do happen could be labor related.

Just a HUNCH... anyone know any facts?

 

C4, I'd just say that your statement of "Hatchbacks are far more practical" is pretty much a really biased opinion, not a fact.

It might be so for a single guy (or girl), but when you actually, you know, have things like kids or stuff to cart around, hatchbacks lose their "practicality" pretty quickly.

Just sayin'.

Also, when you said "The MINI is obviously not for you and when you bought it you already came into the relationship expecting problems to crop up. Not exactly a very open mind if you will."

That's pretty bad logic considering that you accuse her of not having an open mind when you call the car she chose "boring" about five times.

Yeah, that's an "open mind" for you.

P.S. Wow, yet another negative post from me. I don't know, maybe it's just that I have a problem with people attempting to state their personal opinion as somehow categorical fact. If that makes me a troll, oh well.

 

I don't think I ever said Minimam's Civic was "boring". I have sit inside the new '06's (Both a coupe/sedan EX) but have not yet driven it. My "boring" comments come about 12 years of Honda/Acura ownership and driving my sister's '05 Accord VP sedan, which is a very smooth and solid feeling sedan but very boring to drive, hence my reference to an "appliance".

Coopersigma, I disagree with you on that hatchbacks are less practical than a sedan coupe. No way no how. In a hatchback (Whether it is a MINI, Golf, etc) I can fit a 36" TV box and all. Try that on a car with a separate trunk. I can fit stuff in my MINI that could have never been able to fit in my full size Chevy Impala. Now if you are talking about actual trunk space then we need to compare apples to apples.

I don't have kids yet, but my sister does. When my nephew was a baby, her full size sedan was running out of space quickly. Then he bought a new hatchback type vehicle and that made a huge difference. Maybe I misunderstood you, but I can't see how a sedan is more practical than a hatchback.

Minimam bought her MINI but always expecting it to blow up. She is biased towards Hondas and that is fine. It is just that it seems to me she bought her MCS for all the wrong reasons. The MINI is simply not her type of car and then again, there is nothing wrong with that.

Don't worry Coopersigma. We all have our days. Maybe what you should do is turn off the computer, go outside and take a breath of fresh air.

 

That is a very interesting looking 5-door hatchback. This is exhibit "A" as to why American Honda is sooooo out of touch with the US enthusiast customer base. After witnessing the success of the MINI in American soil as a small hatchback (The type of car that supposedly Americans despised), Honda still keeps their best models out of this market.

My opinion on Honda would radically change if they start to address the enthusiast market. Hello anybody home????

Until American Honda brings about cars such as the Civic hatchback pictured below to our turf, they will not get any respect from me.

 

Practical? Try carrying four adults on a road trip in a hatchback comfortably(especially the Mini). 'Nuff said.

Like anything else, it's your opinion that hatchbacks are more practical, whereas to others, they aren't.

 

Ok, so your logic still applies to say a VW Golf 5-door, Mazda 3 five door or Mazda 6 5 door?

 

Hmmmm.... Hatchback? Close, but I think this is a borderline fastback. Either way, it's very interesting!
I would have to agree with C4 on this part. The MINI is a very small hatchback and, while very practical, isn't the most spacious specimen to examine.

It is really a matter of geometry. In essence, it is one bigger, contiguous box

---------------
| ................. |
| ..................|
| ..................|
| ..................|
| ..................|
---------------

Vs. two smaller, adjacent boxes
.........---------
........|............|
........|............|
------|...........|
| ..... |.......... |
| ..... |.......... |
---------------

(Please forgive the abysmal diagrams. )

The usable space inside the hatch is much more adaptable and can be taken better advantage of. It just depends on the sizes of the boxes you're comparing. A Lincoln Town Car vs. a MINI isn't much of a comparison at all. A Suburban (an extreme form of a hatchback) vs. a Lincoln Town Car - the Suburban wins hands down. Heck, a Tahoe would probably win.

Hatchbacks are more practical - they just aren't received well by most Americans, because almost every hatch we've seen has been a crappy econobox. Why do you think the hatch was the design of choice for all those econoboxes in the first place? Because they are so practical.


I have done this on a 4 hour trip in the MINI. While the back seaters didn't have expansive room, they were fine. Not ideal for a long trip - but it worked out with a stretch break at the midway point!

 

All which wouldn't quite count as "hatchbacks", and certainly aren't sold as them.

However, I concede the point that hatchbacks, when put on the right model, are practical, just not ones such as: the Mini, the previous gen Civic Si, the Golf GTI. For carrying a television, sure, it'll get the job done.

But then, I carry friends around a lot more than I do, televisions.

 

For the record, I'll tell you what a really practical hatchback might be, the Dodge Magnum.

Well, that is, if you could stomach the gas bill.

 

NO QUESTION! I love this car. Best and most fun car I've driven in my 24 years of driving. When we were in Greece this past summer a family physician friend said that they consider the MINI a small luxury car - the S model for sure. Taxes are based on engine size/power so the MINI pays a bit more than others. Sure there are the Mercedes and BMWs and the rare SUVs out there but for the size, the MINI is an IT car. I was/am proud.

 

I just wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing your thoughts, feelings, and experience. I am very excited about getting my baby and can not wait to drive her off the dealers lot!

-J