I've been waiting to see just how my MCS would fair against the Subaru STi, and just this last week I had a chance to meet up with two of them.
The first one was on the track at Lime Rock. To be honest I didn't even realize that it was the STi as the owner replaced that wing with an aftermarket CF hood and wing. He had done a few mods, but nothing major.
On the main straight he was only able to pull away about 20' from beginning to end. At the end my MCS out braked it and from that point on he was just holding me up until we hit the Main straight once again. On the next run I was able to get past him on Main straight (he let me as we had discussed this between runs) and I was gone. Didn't see him again that run.
http://www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prsm.dll?eventorder?photo=04FT00250E0009&start=0&a lbum=0&adjust=-1&d=0

Next one was a few days later on the .....(edited)

 

Nice! Nice! Mini only a 1.6L, Subie STI 3.2L or something. Oh the look on their face priceless .

 

STI 2.5 liter turbo boxer engine
300 horsepower
300 ftlbs tourque.
Had to be an inexperanced driver.
No Mcs could out run one.
Please tell me that we are not going to start kill threads here on NAM.
That is the downfall of many other fourms. Having to listen to people
talk about how they out did whatever car and most of the time illeagally
on the street.

 

Not only did I outrun the STi, I outran four BMW E46 M3s @ 345hp.
On the track mind you, not on the street. (so you can sleep better)
Why do so many doubt the performance of a slightly modified Mini S?

By the way, this post is not to boast about myself, it's to boast about the MCS. Not sure what is wrong with posting such a thread. It's just Mini talk.

 

Two quick points:

1) "kill threads" - we don't permit street racing discussions. Let's keep this one going on the track discussion.

2) It is totally possible for a MINI to beat an STI or an M3 on the track or on an autocross course. I have done it myself during a BMWCCA autocross. On a tight course the MINI will have a lot of advantages (the major downfall being getting power down in tight 180's). On faster more wide open courses the M3's were at a noticable advantage since they could make use of their horsepower more.

 

Same driver in both cars and I bet the STI gets the better time on the track,

Thats all i'm trying to say. STI may have more weight but it also has bigger brakes, AWD and more powerful engine. They are Beasts.Will I buy one? No.
I Will be more than happy to have my MINI when it comes to the dealership in August.

 

This is what I love about these kinds of post. I actually HAVE an MCS and actually went against an STi, and you, who don't drive either, are telling me what the comparisons are.
I have mods, including a BBK. He also had mods icluding no CC in the exhaust.
It's interesting that the answer is always ...". the other driver must have been inexperienced". It was my first time on a track, not his ...

 

As DiD said, It's totally realistic for an MCS to beat an STI on a tight, twisty track. Massive horsepower is largely useless in this situation, where the advantage goes to the smaller, lighter car that's quicker through transitions. The MCS's quick steering ratio and tight handling often have the advantage in this type of scenario.

It's not about horsepower, it's about physics..

 

Ahh but did you drive both the STI and your MINI on the same course and compare times?

I have driven a 04 STI and it is one hell of a machine, but for myself it is not for me. Having a car like that and not being able to use it on a trackis a waste. Trying to use the car on the street is dangerous, so I'm opting for a MINI. Something that I can get a lot out of without having to take it to the track.
I'm sure that you can set up a course to play to the strengths of any car.
I'm not disputing that you "beat" a STI on the track. I'm not Saying the STI is the worlds best car ever. You just beat another driver. The MINI did not Beat the STI. That is all that I'm trying to get across to you.

 

Hey, good job on the track against the STi.

I've driven an MCS, an STi, and a SRT-4 all in test drives in order to find out which car I really wanted the most (and I wasn't gentle on these cars either)...truth be told, to me, the MINI handled the best in stock form on twisty roads and felt well built compared to the other two (don't get me wrong, the SRT-4 has massive power, but come on, it is a Chrysler product after all) The STi is scary out of the box, but not as well built as the MCS in initial quality feel, and being a true "race" enthusiast's Subaru, it doesn't have as many cool options as a MCS...and, well, the SRT-4 has great race seats stock and a cool shifter, that's about it....I saw nothing else interior wise that really grabbed my attention.

Now, straight line in a 1/4 mile the outcome would be:
STi
SRT-4
MCS

But most of us don't buy them to put slicks on and haul *** in a straight line anyways

Sounds like you had a good time nonetheless...congrats.

Dave.

 

I was at the Vancouver International Autoshow today and discussed with one of the exhibitor about signing up for a course in learning to drive my car for autocrossing. It's a 2 day course where the first day is actually classroom time and the second day on the track with an instructor on board. He said it was about maximizing your drive to the limits of your car's potential.

When I told him I had an MCS, he made the comment that the MCS consistantly wins its class so convincingly that they should bump it up a class.

A friend of mine drives an RX-8 and he was surprised the MCS wasn't in the same class as he felt my MCS would outrun his RX-8 through the twisties.

Anyways, just thought I would share that information.

 

the generic banter from someone who has never raced on a track before... sti can have all the power in the world, but if there is no space to use it... dosn't really matter

 

Good for you...score one for the Minis!! I always tell people how I grew up watching a friend of the family race minis agains cars that were "faster"...he had a classic....and the big v8s would out power him sure...but then you came into big bend and whooosh he would swerve in and out of them like they were cones...even in the apex!! LOL it was great!

Oh nice pic BTW

 

I love it when a plan comes together. What are your mods and do you know your hp and ft/lbs. I see you have brakes, I assume sway bar, what about springs and shocks.

Thanks in advance

 

Spider,
http://members.tripod.com/rcsail/mini_home.html

Same as my link in my sig below.

 

It is the driver, not the car, that beat the other (or the other cars was having mechincal difficulties) Take some one well known for road racing...say Boris Said, for example...and have him take all three cars (STi, M3. MCS) in stock condition, all in proper working order, for hot laps around some famous road courses, say for example Lime Rock, Infinity, Nurenbergring, and Watkins Glen. Tell me, can you honestly say Boris is going to get the best lap times in a MINI!?!?!

 

Anyone who has actually tracked their car understands the impact of both the driver and the track on a car's competitiveness. My information comes from racing in SCCA Solo II events some time back, driving an 87 Civic Si in DS.

1) On a track that was predominated by tight turns, slaloms and sweepers, my times were faster than most of the cars in AS (Corvettes, Porsches, et. al.). Thus, the vehicle's dynamics and capabilities need to be considered based on the inherent limitations of the track design. That is why road racing teams have different suspension and gearing set-ups for each track.

2) While I considered myself fairly experienced, I raced with at least 2 Pro Solo National Champions. On any given day, at any given track, they could get behind the wheel of my car and shave a second or two (or more!!!) off my best time for a 50 second course. So, driver experience does matter as well.

3) According to the testing by Road & Track, a stock MCS went through their slalom course a full one mile an hour faster than the STi. And, without the benefit of a BBK, the MINI was somewhat close to the STi's 80-0 and 60-0 braking distances.

It sounds like onasled was held-up in the twisties by the Subie...but (assuming passing was allowed) he could not execute a pass. To me this would indicate that the Subie driver was not inexperienced and/or the course was too tight for passing.

When onasled led in the twisties, he was able to pull away or at least maintain an interval of "comfort". This seems to me to indicate one of the best qualities of the MINI (and, perhaps onasled!)...as Road & Track discovered.

Also, I fully believe that an MCS with a BBK, suspension mods, lightweight wheels (important when braking), and decent tires would be able to outbrake the STi.

I sense that there might be a good auto-x challenge lurking. Onasled is in my neck of the woods in New England...anyone know an STi owner who would like to attend a CART or SCCA Auto-x in these parts????

Let the (track) racing begin!

Theo

 

while I agree with you dominic....
I think the point you are forgetting is onasled's car is modified and the sti was probably stock
so it was an apples to oranges comparison

 

Don't really want this thread to get out'a control on 'what's faster'. My intensions for this thread was just to state my personal experience on a subject that has been on the back of my mind for quite a while, and that was; "How would my personal MCS do against those snoopies?"

In the first instance on the track I was not even knowing that it was an STi I was joisting with till after the day was over. It just didn't occur to me that it was, being it's signature whale tail was missing. I'm just not that much of a 'general market' car nut to know. In fact I had no clue what BMW was what, and even if I was told, it meant nothing to me until I got home and looked on the web to see just what they were all about.

I did know that the second Subie was an STi as I've seen him around my area for a while. I was ready to get smoked by this thing, but was hugely surprised that it just wasn't that much faster, especially once the speed was up.

I think I am just feeling very good about my MCS right now and was quite pleased with it's performance at LRP. It was like it knew it was there and just 'turned on'.


To note, passing could only be done on one of the three straights as it was a driving school event. I could have passed the Subie very easily at the end of the straight, but that location was too late. Driver being passed must give a hand signal to let you pass. The Subie wouldn't do so being he just didn’t want me to go by on his fastest section, the straights.
It wasn't until I talked with him and he agreed to let me by in the next run that I was able to pass, and disapear.

 

Tuls,

Be careful posting that pic as it's copyrighted.

 

At Sears Point, I passed Porches, Mustangs (new and old), even a new Corvette and a few Cobras. And I was passed by Porches, Mustangs (new and old), Corvetts and a lot of Cobras.

The old mustangs with stock suspensions couldn't corner, and had to wait abit to put power down without spinning (tires or cars). But on the longer straights, some cought up. The stock mini brakes don't let you go too deep, so I'm sure the brake kit helped with keeping speed high until the last second. That's worth some time right there! For some of the "better" cars with good drivers, all I could do was stay out of their way (an M5 and an E55 AMG)

Matt

 

heh heh...ooops...I wasn't trying to sell it..just showing it...

 

[QUOTE=onasled]"How would my personal MCS do against those snoopies?"

In the first instance on the track I was not even knowing that it was an STi I was joisting with till after the day was over. It just didn't occur to me that it was, being it's signature whale tail was missing. I'm just not that much of a 'general market' car nut to know. In fact I had no clue what BMW was what, and even if I was told, it meant nothing to me until I got home and looked on the web to see just what they were all about.

Congratulations! When I used to race I felt the same way. I had a general impression of the other cars, but not specifically. I remained such a novice that I concentrated on the track, my car and my vision (my eyes would dry out from the wind). It was educational to learn when I did better than more powerful cars and, as Dr Onxs posts, even when I was passed by less powerful ones. I suppose my attitude would be different if my welfare depended on winning.

A question: What are "snoopies"?

 

snoopies=subies=scoobies=subaru?

 

Here waht i say to nolimit and all the hater/arguers...