Hey guys, I was giving my r53 (mostly stock) some power in 1st and I felt the gear shift wobble a bit and then POP, loud noise and i lost power to the wheels. Engine runs fine, each gear engages but when I release the clutch in each gear there's a grinning noise like blending up metal. Any thoughts on what this could be? Already have the car mostly apart about to drop the tranny but I'd like to know what I should be looking for. Differential? Input shaft? Anything else?

 

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Might be the throw-out bearing as they tend to self destruct in catastrophic manner:


This is the worst one I've seen a pic of,
from this thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-exploded.html

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And,
this one was so violent that it busted a small hole in the bell housing:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...nsmission.html

:

 

I would assume the throw out bearing would make it so you couldn’t get the transmission in and out of gear while driving, not cause the transmission to not drive.

Sounds to me like the clutch disc gave out, like the center plate let go from the friction plate.

Curious to see what you find when you drop the transmission.

 

My first guess would have been a drive shaft/half shaft (the u-joint). A bad one is easy enough to spot from under the car.

That your can change gears with no drama but hear noise when you release the clutch suggests the problem is internal to the transmission. Of course when you drop the transmission you'll expose the clutch and that is the time to give it a careful inspection. Regardless of what you find wrong in the transmission the clutch could be due for a refresh.

 

Thanks for all the input!

i had the same thoughts about throw out bearing, but I agree that if it all exploded it probably wouldn't go into gear, shift, or have a good clutch feel, and it has all of those still. Of course, it might just seem to be going in gear but not actually engaging because the clutch is thrashed. It's not the axles, neither of them will spin at all, which is why I originally thought differential. Drained the tranny oil and didn't see big metal chunks tho, so no I'm leaning clutch related. I'll update the thread once I pull everything else out.

 

Took the transmission out. When I spin the shaft the differential spins where the axles connect, so I don't think the transmission is the problem. There were some large black metal pieces in the bellowing which is suspicious... it's been making the standard dual mass flywheel chatter since I bought it 8000 miles ago, any chance that the flywheel is broken? The clutch didn't look too bad either (forgot to take pictures)... don't know what the issue could be and I'm fearing it's crankshaft (though you'd think it would run poorly if this was the case right??).

 

With another brand of car I vaguely recall some owners experiencing problems with the dual mass flywheel. A "clunk" upon taking from a stop was one sign the flywheel was bad.

You have the transmission out but you ain't done yet. You need to remove the clutch and expose all its innards for close inspection and possible replacement. If nothing else this would fall under the while you are there rule...

And you must also give the dual mass flywheel a good going over.

 

Agreed. Clutch itself looks fine... waiting for the time to fashion a flywheel lock and then I'll pull thay out too. The throw out bearing sort of looks like the splines have been grinded down, but maybe that's just how they look? Also, I've figured out that this is an aftermarket LUK kit that the previous owner must have installed.

 

Any bits of metal come out when you drained the gear case?

 

There were some microscopic flakes but nothing substantial. The pictures from my previous post show some larger metal flakes that were in the bell housing.

 

Did you check the axles? Check for breakage inside the CV joint or any weird movement between the shaft and outer/inners.
If the axles are fine, check the shifter. Does the shifter actually engage the gears? A broken shifter cable could prevent the trans from engaging gears and you're effectively in neutral, although that would be fairly obvious.

If those check out, then it's likely internal trans, considering your clutch disc looks ok. One thing you could double check is, put the clutch disc on the input shaft of the trans and see if you can spin the trans with the clutch. I've sheared all of the splines off of a clutch disc before...

If the flywheel failed to the point where you had no movement from the trans, then you'd hear a much louder noise. The flywheel would have to essentially be split between the clutch surface and where it mounts to the crank.

Throw-out bearing has zero effect on transmission moving under power. You could completely remove the throw out bearing from the car, and still get the car to move under power.

 

1. box end wrench
2. trans mount bolt
3. pressure plate bolt

thread the trans mount bolt thru one end of the wrench and into the block
thread a pressure plate bolt into the flywheel.
rotate crank until the wrench presses against the pressure plate hole/bolt when you break the bolts free from the flywheel.
profit.

 

Big sad moment... did a more thorough inspection of drivers side cv axle (which I replaced with a cheap one 4 months ago), looks like it hasn't been engaging all the way due to the axle being too short :(. I sort of knew I was going to have to replace it soon causes it was popping and clunking, but one cv axle disconnecting wouldn't cause complete power loss right? The assumption that if both axles werent turning then it must be further back is what got me into this mess. Either way, I'll take this as a time to do smf conversion to fix the infuriating chatter lol. I wouldn't be so bummed if I hadn't been doing this all by myself in my university parking lot. Either way, found some stuff that needed replacing along the way so I'll call it a win. Any thoughts on GKN axles?

 

If you have an open diff, breaking an axle means just the bad side will spin, so yeah, it will essentially cause complete power loss.

 

Well, that’s it right there.

 

Plus side, you don't have to replace internal gearbox components and you did a trans flush. Biggest benefit, you'll now know to check axles before pulling major components - it's a life lesson.

Down side, yeah... a lot of work that was basically due to an axle.

And yes, an axle not fully seated or broken will make it seem like you have no gears.

 

Yep, lesson learned. Any thoughts on whether or not I should Crack the trans case to make sure I don't have any pieces of spline on there? Don't know if I really stripped enough material to warrant that. Also, any idea how to seat those axle c clips correctly so the next axle doesn't pop out?

 

Should just be able to look thru the holes where the axles sit and see if you see anything blocking.

Could also spin the input shaft while in gear and see if you hear any clunking.

or check the axle end. if anything broke off, it'll be fairly obvious.

 

Got it, thanks for the reply. I'm leaning towards not replacing the rear main seal when I swap the flywheel, I've read some horror stories on the forum about switching it and then having problems down the road. I'm just terrified that I'll mess it up and have to do it all again. Car only has 80000 miles, should I risk it or leave it?

 

I have a luk dmf flywheel firsale if you need it , I'm asking 150$ or shoot me ur best offer if you need it..
it has under 20k , literally still like new..
try spinning the inner part of your flywheel, I'd be willing to bet it's internal clutch is breaking apart or the internals or the throwout bearing.. I'd replace anything simple and cheaper like throw out bearing and rearmain seal n swaybar bushings ect rite now while kframe is sown n trans out..
also I'm running an ebay lightweight 1x piece flywheel and stage 1x clutch and im LOVING it and its feel n grab sofar. Price was rite too ! Was under 300$ for the entire set , though I purchased oem throwout bearing for it not the cheap one the kit provides.

 

Hey MinimanAdam. Thanks for the offer and the advice! I actually just bought a valeo conversion kit so I should be good! Thanks for all the help everyone. I'm going to let to stop posting on the forum and then update it once I've finished the reinstall.

 

goodluck..i just removed the Valeo from my car( age and mileage and type driver unknown), that's what was slipping.. if you need any tips or anything pm me or something. I just got done doing my clutch and few other things along with it so it's fresh in my mind yet.

 

Update... got my valeo kit (yay) was going to spend the Saturday putting it all back together. Figured I'd check over the parts and such first. I ran into a big issue, the throw out bearing doesn't sit snugly, it rocks back and forth on the shaft tube. I'll try to attach a video. What should I do?

 

Mine was the same - just looked back through my camera roll and found a video that I'd emailed to whoever I bought it from (Pelican, probably), and they said its fine. It has the same amount of play in it as yours. It was a Valeo single mass flywheel conversion kit, about 2 years ago, maybe 10k miles or so.

 

Hmm, that's interesting... you don't get any annoying noises or anything from it? Also, as has become the custom on this thread, I made a mistake. Torqued flywheel to 90ftlbs instead do 66 (supposed to be 90nm). I backed them out and retorqued then, should be alright yeah? They were in for like 5 minutes and they feel fine at 66ftlb, am I worried over nothing?