I have had my 06MCS for a little less than a year. I was bored of my ZL1 1LE Camaro and sold it to buy something that my wife, daughter and I would all enjoy. They never cared for the Boxster and 911 I had and really didn't like the Camaro. We talked and agreed that our favorite car was a 2005 R50 that was my wife's car many years ago.

So I bought this MCS knowing I was going to tear it down and build it up. I spent the last 9 months finishing up work to retire and also replacing the entire suspension on the car. It sat on the quick jacks for months as I tinkered with it as time allowed. The suspension is now finished.

I am ready to dive into adding a cam, header, injectors, etc, but wanted to get a baseline Dyno to see where I was starting. I bought the car with lots of recent maintenance done, cai and 15% pulley. It runs fine other than a slight hesitation at throttle tip in. However, it only made 135whp on a hub Dyno.



I guess I should have realized it was down on power, but my previous reference was an 800hp Camaro so I never expected much. I bought some parts from Jan and called him when the car was on the Dyno. The power curve was low and flat until almost 4500. Jan said it was a fuel issue.

I tried to see if an expert that's somewhat local to me would take a look and help me figure it out. Even though I haven't touched the engine, I couldn't get help because, "Jan was involved". So now I'm trying to figure this out on my own. I need some internet expert help.

I also pulled the plugs and changed them today along with adding MSD wires. The plugs looked good and I also checked the fuel regulator assembly. Everything seemed connected with nothing loose or cracked, etc.





Other than fuel pump and fuel filter is there anything else I can check? Fwiw I am going to put a gauge on the fuel rail tomorrow to see what's what. If that's good then I'll do a leak down.

I'm really hoping for some guidance. It seems smart to get the car sorted and running perfectly before putting a cam, header, etc on it

 

Fuel pressure was my first thought but you mentioned that you're already planning to check that. So a couple of other thoughts: clogged/dirty injectors or low compression.

 

Car has 58k on it so I am genuinely hoping the compression and leak down test are positive. How do I test the injectors? I have 550 injectors going in with the upgrades, but that's no help now. I note some cheap 380cc injectors on eBay. I guess I could order a set to try just to rule out injectors?

Thanks for the input. I'd rather have a gameplan than just throw crap at the wall to see what sticks!!!

 

Do a search on youtube for "clean fuel injector 9v battery". There are some good videos on how to create a setup that will allow you to activate (and clean) an injector. You should be able to observe the spray pattern which will help. Of course, in less time than it would take to do that you could install the eBay 380s and see what happens. Either way, I think it's worth watching a couple of the videos. Most are rather short.

 

I would do a simple compression check before the leakdown test. You are looking for 131 to 196psi, with no more than 10% difference across all four cylinders. (Mini calls for max 7psi or .5bar difference, which is 5%.)

If your numbers are low, redo "wet" (squirt a teaspoon of oil in the cylinder) and recheck pressures. This will improve rings to cylinder seal temporarily. Significant increase in compression says your rings are shot. No change implies valve or cylinder head issue. If all is good, then you are definitely on to fuel, as Jan and the dyno suggest.

 

Wow, only 135 WHP... I'll be watching updates on this. I still don't know my engine build specs, however suspect the injectors are large for non-tracking use due to cold nature starting regardless of ambient. Won't start first time even with fuel pressured but 2nd attempt will fire, blubber a bit and then runs clean and smooth. No clue on actual max power produced but seems "more than adequate" for 1600cc.

So, 550cc injectors planned? Really? I'd hope mine aren't nearly that large but suspect 380cc minimum to match other apparent engine mods. If not for required removal of water-to-air intercooler plumbing, I'd already have removed that and other bits to determine what was installed long ago with objective of better overall street manners.

 

Thanks for the input everyone. I'm going to a friend's shop tomorrow. We'll check fuel rail pressure and likely compression. I'll keep everyone posted.

Plan for the car is as follows, all parts sitting in boxes. Rmw header, rmw tune, 550 injectors, ported intake, ported supercharger snorkel, stegemeier rebuilt and ported supercharger with recoated rotors, aerogel header insulation, pro-alloy tmic, gtt catch can, msd wires, brisk plugs, ph2 cam and 15% pulley. I'm probably forgetting something, but that's the gist of it.

When I redid the suspension I refinished the front knuckles and control arms. Everything else was replaced with new including rear r56 aluminum trailing arms, tarett 23.5mm rear bar, and Porsche front calipers.

I'm hoping that the motor isn't hurt. Was going to be happy with the mods and a projected 205-215hp. I was going to take advantage of one or two more track days at Barber before retiring to Montana. A new motor will kill that for sure.

 

Perfect input. Thank you. Will be my first order of business after pressure at the rail.

Is it necessary to drive and monitor rail pressure? Or can it be done idling and going the throttle? I should see somewhere around 50psi right?

 

Not to hijack the post but how do those porsche brakes feel and exactly what rotors are you using, Are you using the GP brake rotors or JCW rotors.

 

Fuel pressure spec is 50.8# +/-3 PSI at rail

Idling is nice, but doesn't tell you if the fuel pump is able to maintain that pressure at higher volume or RPM. In your case, pressure at the fuel rail may be dropping before 5000RPM, because either the fuel filter is clogged (likely), or the pump is dying (which is less-likely at 58K, but possible). A clogged fuel filter cost me more than 20HP when I first installed a BVH five years ago, but you are missing a lot more than that.

Note: as MCS4FUN has commented, the 550's seem a bit big for a stock head, do discuss with your tuner.

 

The proverbial white elephant in the room..!
When was the last time the dyno was calibrated ? Plus, the operator..!?

When I take a cylinder head in to be tested after doing port work, I always ask for the same bench operator as I've found that different operators, don't perform the operations in the same manor, I HAVE...seen this happen at two dyno shops, that the outcome was "largely" different, one shop to another.

That's a LOT...of power to be down on !

Mike

 

You might be chasing a ghost.

A dyno is a tuning tool. Running a few pulls and getting a base is the point of a dyno. A base on which you show improvements on once they are made.
With that, stock R53 is 170bhp. If you do 20% drivetrain loss (admittedly, high) -- you're at 136whp. 5-10hp difference is pretty common in dynos. You could have 5-10hp difference between two runs of the same car, on the same day, without changing anything.

Sure, you might have a slightly drop in performance, considering you're dynoing a car that's damn near old enough to vote and with only 58K miles on it. That's only 3400miles a year, average. There's some chance that a basic "tune-up" could help. Replace plugs, coils, fuel filter, oil change, and if you want -- get the injectors cleaned professionally (or replace them...cleaning can be <$150).

 

I am very familiar with Porsche brakes so I jumped on them when I saw minibrakes advertising an adapter. I haven't done a track day yet, but on the street they are great. I was worried about the size of the master cylinder vs huge calipers. These seem to be a sweet spot. I paired them with ebc yellow stuff pads and they do well. I picked one piece slotted ap rotors from outmotoring. 316mm front and stock rear. Kept it simple. Not turning this into a dedicated track car. The brakes fill the 17x7 OZ wheels just about right.

 

i really like the porsche brakes. Thanks for the pictures and information. Will have to be an addition ill do this summer. Can't wait for people's faces when they see them. And looking at the sway bar link, it look like one end needs to be rotated 180 degrees. Not sure but that does not look like the correct angle for the sway bar link. It could damage the bushing in it,

 

Had a chance to check fuel pressure today. 50-51psi at idle. In fourth gear under load, going up a steep hill, 3/4+ throttle it dipped to 48psi. Off throttle it went to 52psi.

I am guessing fuel filter? I've ordered one and will get on that when it arrives. I doubt it's an injector issue at this point due to the pressure drop. It might be the pump but the filter gets attention first.

I'm going to do the compression test in a day or so. We'll see where that ends up. I'll keep y'all posted.

I recognize btw that dynos need calibrated. I don't know about Brett's Dyno, but he gets predictable numbers from his other builds. I think the low fuel pressure is the culprit. I'll verify compression and move forward.

I know these cars were 170 at the crank new. But doesn't the 15% pulley push that right up to 190+. I was expecting to see 160 on the Dyno. Obviously disappointed, but maybe I'll see huge gains with the upgrades and maintenance.

 

I'll review the end link. I think I installed it correctly, but it may be wrong. Fwiw NVH with dotR tires is up significantly. I lined the car with sound deadening and it helped, but hard mounted struts and polyurethane bushings an around make it stiff. Not unbearable, but I wouldn't want it any worse.


The rear tarett bar is the bees knees btw. Can be installed without dropping rear sub frame and looks great behind the wheels IMHO.

 

in a car with injectors that are 16 years old... It seems like a lot of work NOT to have the injectors professionally cleaned and checked for flow and spray pattern... especially in a car that sat more than it was used... in a day/age when fuel can go bad in the tank inside of a few months...

Yes, change the fuel fuel filter for sure... but I really suggest that you KNOW what your injectors are doing.

Also... Throwing out number like 550cc or 380cc is rather pointless on a car that is not making much more power than than stock (nor equipped to do this).
Too large of injectors will diminish performance and running 'character' as they will not atomize the fuel as well and will run shorter PW when doing so....
The key is to MATCH the injector flow to the engine design.

What is your target HP?
What physical mods have you done to the engine to keep it together with more boost and more power?


Sincere good luck with your project.... looks like fun.

Nice work with the Porsche binders !!











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no afr on that dyno log so who knows what's happening.

any way to log spark/knock? I'm in for popcorn if jan is tuning it, I gave up on him

 

My goals have always been to have as much power as can reasonably be gained with things stockish. I chose to have a ported m45 vs tvs because I didn't want to stray that far from a stock setup. I'm just trying to optimize and get the most potential out of a stock based platform. To many that is idiotic because I could have spent a few hundred more on different parts with increased hp potential. But 300hp and a temperamental beast isn't what I want.

I ordered the headers, injectors, cam and tune from Jan. He's the one that specd the 550cc injectors. I tried other sources and had no luck getting anywhere. Jan is difficult to get in touch with at times, but was on the phone with us the day of the Dyno. I'm not a fan of Jan or anyone else regarding my car. But I have already had experiences both good and bad with Mini vendors. My thoughts are that we should support as many as we can (as long as they aren't schmucks) otherwise we won't have any vendors to choose from in the long run.

I hope to see 210hp or close. Seems like the car will be a real hoot with 80 more hp! I'm going to r&r the fuel filter, check compression and move forward with the engine work. I would love to hear thoughts on my fuel rail pressures today. Does my thought of restricted filter seem reasonable?

Thanks again for the input. It really helped today and to get a gameplan moving forward. Some of you guys have a ton of experience that I am grateful to tap into. I hope my build strategy isn't too off the wall, though I recognize that it's probably silly to a lot of you hardcore guys.

 

I had another Dyno chart with the AFR logs. I just posted the wrong one. 13.4-13.8 was what we saw with a couple of spots on the various pulls in the very low 14s. So, yeah lean... Mind you this was with a stock cat, invidia cat back and tailpipe sniffer.

 

thats not just lean those are "stop the pull right now" numbers if that was over 4000 wot

 

FYI, that fuel pressure is within the range of completely normal with a properly working fuel system on our cars.

And for reference, a stock 210hp JCW car will show you between 160-170 WHP on a generous hub Dyno.

 

So is it alright that the pressure dropped a few pounds as I put it under load? I thought it would stay the same. It's not supposed to rise is it? Thank you again.

 

Just a thought , I have a set of good stock injectors out of my lower mileage engine i had... if you wanna throw them in and see if they'd help at all , just cover shipping and 5$ for gas n stuff and I can get them shipped asap. They're surprisingly not even rusted on the body like just about EVERY set I've come across.

 

Sorry... Double post.