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so, back when i had a sc tbird I had modified my MP supercharger I had installed on it back in the day and last night I got a thinking ...
our sc on the top side is the same design so im wondering if the same mod would apply to our stock sc.
what im wondering is if i seal up the ports I circled red will it increase the boost and sc efficiency alittle BUT cause it to be louder ? On my Tbird it was good for almost 2lb extra of boost and it really made the sc sound AMAZING imo..
also I wanna make it alittle better while my head is going on , is there any simple porting that can be done on it to be of any use ? I do run my bpv shut 100% so the sc asis is working alittle harder already plus its got a 17% pulley on it. Possibly a 20% if i can port it alittle for better efficiency or leave on the 17% and close those veins and port it yet.
They plug silencer holes on Lightnings as well. They can generate more heat depending on the SC. As for simple porting. You can take out the wings at the base of the triangle opening. Just make sure the bolts have enough threads to bite. You can also open up the top. Here is an example of what I mean
Last edited by Mini Devil; Sep 18, 2020 at 04:31 AM.
I have a ported M45 that was built by Stigemyer within the last 1k miles. It also has a new Craven 17% pulley on it for sale if anyone is interested. I moved to the TVS900 because I found a deal on it.
I have a ported M45 that was built by Stigemyer within the last 1k miles. It also has a new Craven 17% pulley on it for sale if anyone is interested. I moved to the TVS900 because I found a deal on it.
Slightly better boost (+ 1.5 psi) but more smooth deliverdeli wish i would of tried it with an EWP because I may not of purchased the TVS.
You have peaked my interest. I'm already running an EWP, and I couldn't be more pleased. Might be a viable option with a water/meth kit to keep temps down
Does nothing but waste your time. But facts don’t seem to matter much around here anymore. Will go great with 20% pulley go for it insert more positive reinforcement here!
Some days I legit wonder if this is another Charlie Richard dummy account.
Does nothing but waste your time. But facts don’t seem to matter much around here anymore. Will go great with 20% pulley go for it insert more positive reinforcement here!
Some days I legit wonder if this is another Charlie Richard dummy account.
To say that porting a SC is "nothing but a waste of your time", I don't think is a fair assessment. That's like saying porting a head to flow more is a waste of time. An engine is nothing more than a big air pump. The higher/smoother air flow will always help. I'll give credit where due, you've clearly built quite the car. We're not all looking to make "big numbers" relatively speaking of course.
There is more than one way to build your car. I myself would be happy with a >250hp canyon carver. That's the beauty of these cars. We customize them to "our" liking. Not what everyone thinks is an "optimal" build
15 years of people saying the same thing and realizing it does nothing means....? All one has to do is search and see the answers. Has nothing to do with builds if one person or the next. If it did something there would be twice as many posts as there is praising it. In theory you think opening it up will work. In the end it does nothing on a roots blower. Again but that search this isn’t a new idea or topic for some hidden hp or cfm increase.
15 years of people saying the same thing and realizing it does nothing means....? All one has to do is search and see the answers. Has nothing to do with builds if one person or the next. If it did something there would be twice as many posts as there is praising it. In theory you think opening it up will work. In the end it does nothing on a roots blower. Again but that search this isn’t a new idea or topic for some hidden hp or cfm increase.
But I'm sure you know more than WMW.
Originally Posted by WayMotorWorks
I do believe there to be gains in the ported supercharger. But no one has dyno'd their car, then same day swapped the supercharger ONLY, then redyno to see the gains. That is the only honest way to test the gain of a ported supercharger only. So I won't lie and give people a hp number just to sell it. But when I've installed it I can say it makes a little more noise, and feels a little smoother. It's not a 15hp gain, but there is gain there. We are really selling this as a do it while your replacing the supercharger, not do this to gain power. Cause we all know the supercharger is going to die, but why not upgrade when we replace it.
Cmon this isn't a **** contest guys . Akumazeto DOES know his **** when it comes to these cars , he just has a different way of telling you..don't take offense to it as he means none..
I think what he's saying is for the time and effort you would put in it would not be worth it but for people like me that have to do it all on a strict budget , any gain to be had for free is a worth while mod. Time IS NOT my enemy when it comes to working on my car. It technically is my dailydriver IF I drove everyday. I also have the option of using my wifes vehicle when ever too so I don't mind alittle down time on my car as I spend 2hours to remove 1mm of material ,lol . Its what's fun for me and I enjoy every minute I work on my car and then I enjoy it that much more every time I drive it.
I found this bit of info : Supercharger Redline
After discussions with several different engineers at several different manufacturers, the redline of the supercharger is in the neighbor hood of 17,200 RPM - depending on which one you talk with. More than 15% at a redline of 7200 RPM on the motor will put you right at that. Using 15% keeps it at roughly 17,100 RPM (again depending on who you talk with). This could be avoided by limiting the motor RPM, but because the horspower curve does not peak below redline, this would also limit your overall output. ( DO YOU BELIVE THESE NUMBERS OR NOT ??? I DONT HONESTLY AS IVE PERSONALLY LOGGED DATA WITH A 15% V 17%)
Efficiency
It takes horsepower to make horsepower. What I mean by that is that there is a break-even point to where you are creating a lot of drag to make the boost. The more boost you are making using a supercharger gives more drag. Up to a point, the trade off is acceptable - you make 25 horsepower but it costs 10 to get the supercharger to push that much air, so the net gain is 15. Eventually, it will cost you more to make the power than you get back. This is only a minor reason not to go smaller, but it is part of the big picture. Heat can also fall into this category because of the way the air is moved. To make the boost, the Eaton creates quite a bit of heat - and the more boost is made, the more heat is generated. The heat reduces the density of the intake charge, and therefore costs power. This again is a balancing act - the boost makes power, but the heat caused by genereating the boost costs power. That is one of the reasons the intercooler is such an important option on this car - either cooling it externally (CO2 for instance) or making it more efficient.( AGAIN , I DONT BELIVE THIS...MY 17% V MY 15% MADE NO EXTRA HEAT AT ALL , I LOGGED EXACT SAME IAT NUMBERS WITH BOTH, buuut it may because I have supporting mods )
Belt Life
When going smaller on the pulley diameter, you have more belt rap on the pulley. This may cause some belt interval issues, but I haven't seen that, and from the other guys I've talked with, they haven't either. It could be a significant enough reason though.
Water Pump
The water pump is driven by the supercharger, so if you reduce the pulley on the supercharger, you are spinning the water pump and the supercharger faster. Unless you change the angle of the blades in the water pump, at some point, the pump will be spinning fast enough to stall the blades - causing cavitation. This has yet to be an issue even at the 17% reduction some of the Euro guys are trying out.
The JCW pulley is 2.21 " in diameter, and the 15% reduction pulley is 2.17", so it is basically a wash - they use a pulley just like we do. The rotors are coated with graphite (not Teflon) instead of the epoxy coating on the S M45. The efficiency is very close to being the same on both types of coatings
P&D made the 15%, a 10% and a few 20% pulley(s at customer special request) and all have worked fine. Physical size is a definite limit, but we did get to 20%. It is a bolt on to the same hub. no belt slippage problems, but a shorter belt is required (it should be used with the 15% anyway.)
As far as cavitation and over-revving the blower, my advice is to lower the redline by 5% (350rpm) when using the 20% pulley. The most useful gain you will get will be in the mid-range to redline where the motor will be running 99% of the time anyway, plus the extra 55 will bring on the boost that much sooner.
MY POINT in that above article is... over time better engineering and research and test n trials DO prove to end up being efficient, just like the 17% pulley was not a popular option the 1st 5x years or so these cars were out but as time went on people found that the 17% is the go to.. that just my 2cents for what little its worth
Last edited by MiniManAdam; Sep 20, 2020 at 10:42 AM.
roflmao One way backs up what I am saying and two oh my your new here to believe WAy knows anything about performance. You just keep telling yourself that. I dont care what you do. Waste your time enjoy. The fact that you are basing your point on that Way runs business vs me is remedial at best. You know NOTHING about WAY give him a call and I bet within seconds of him belting you your tune changes. He will talk to you just like I am. Why do you trust WMW word over mine? One is trying to sell a product the other is just giving facts. Maybe you believe RMW is the best because he too runs a business. Grow up chump and get a real opinion.
Last edited by Akumazeto; Sep 20, 2020 at 12:50 PM.
roflmao One way backs up what I am saying and two oh my your new here to believe WAy knows anything about performance. You just keep telling yourself that. I dont care what you do. Waste your time enjoy. The fact that you are basing your point on that Way runs business vs me is remedial at best. You know NOTHING about WAY give him a call and I bet within seconds of him belting you your tune changes. He will talk to you just like I am. Why do you trust WMW word over mine? One is trying to sell a product the other is just giving facts. Maybe you believe RMW is the best because he too runs a business. Grow up chump and get a real opinion.
Not at all, I found it after the fact. I have personally had experience with porting roots style Eaton blowers(Ford Lightning). There are definitely gains to be had there.
Even if it only improves efficiency, with no real power increase. I'm ok with that. I believe you and I are going to agree to disagree.
No reason to call names, and be disrespectful though
I worked at Ford as a tech for over 20 years. Saw our fair share of lightings even with all their issues etc.
We don’t have to disagree at all and you made it seem like you believed wmw purely because what? His years of experience it that he owns a shop and happens to sell online parts? I have asbergers and sometimes things can get heated. You might get some gains but here is what I have learned in general over the years especially on forums. Everyone is always looking for that free
power mod they can do.
Lots of people like to forum build I guess or fb group build these days. This means people like to sit around and talk about and not actually do. This is a huge issue for me as I legit just fired a bunch of my own customers in my business for this. I don’t have time for that when it comes to money.
Folks like to theoretically build cars or build engines or theoretically race or yell at the TV and tell them what play to make for a sport. What I have learned is that 90% of people never do what they are talking about. Could be lack of skill lack of motivation or money or maybe they just like to bull ***** for fun like at the bar with mates.
So I am doubting that no car in this thread that may or may not be planning on this even gets as far as front end service mode. Just getting to blower on the bench is a little bit of a chore. Would take me maybe 45 minutes I guess. I was not intentionally being rude. I do have a ton of knowledge about this platform and even more automotive knowledge in general. 2 stroke porting rotary building porting racing super moto and solo class. Ranging from Datsun to Jaguar.
Sorry it seemed that way but this is what I will say for bottom line. Taking it off, porting it lightly is not worth the effort. In the lighting there likely is small gains either because of poor internal flow design path or a larger VE sector due to four more cylinders. There is a larger chance of messing up the blower then any gains that made it worth the time. It has nothing to do with my personal build either. We can all learn from each other. But what I have learned about NAMS recent owners is that money is a issue and when money is a issue people are willing to sacrifice something to get what they want and do things more risky in the sake of more power like a 20% pulley. Terrible idea not matter what you might have read and that’s not directed at you. Seems if you search long enough you will likely find someone who backs your play for whatever you want to do.
Adam don’t do either of these man. Enjoy your car until you have more money. I am sure you planned this while head is off but dude just don’t and stop with all the ideas to get more free power. Or don’t it’s your car and your time. I get it I do you always want to be working on it because you enjoy it.
Last edited by Akumazeto; Sep 20, 2020 at 04:48 PM.
Ok..I will leave the blower alone, miiiight just close the silencer ports thats all.. BUT I for sure need to obtain an intake manifold and ic horn to port n match to my head as well as modify the gaskets to match both then.
Again you do what you want but it's not as crucial as you would think. I have enlarged intake manifold and of course rmw header. Having used the RMW BVH and after both of those I can tell you there for sure was no seat of the pants change and asr as the Link Ecu goes there was no VE change either registred in the Tmap. I know how you feel man you just want to do something anything on the car to keep the good times rolling. It was a hard pill to swallow when I was finally done with my r53. Like welp I have done everything and the project is over. I enjoy working more than driving sometimes. I guess its why I did work for teams rather than be a driver all the time.
I think your going to have your hands full when that head comes off with all the other ***** you should do while its off. I almost guarantee some of your PSU seep or straight up leak even if its not hitting the ground.
Does nothing but waste your time. But facts don’t seem to matter much around here anymore. Will go great with 20% pulley go for it insert more positive reinforcement here!
Some days I legit wonder if this is another Charlie Richard dummy account.
I've read read the same thing on several other places/forums. It's not worth the time to port them....just a waste of time.
Not at all, I found it after the fact. I have personally had experience with porting roots style Eaton blowers(Ford Lightning). There are definitely gains to be had there.
Even if it only improves efficiency, with no real power increase. I'm ok with that. I believe you and I are going to agree to disagree.
No reason to call names, and be disrespectful though
How do you improve efficiency.....and no gain power? If you don't gain any power...you didn't gain any efficiency.
I worked at Ford as a tech for over 20 years. Saw our fair share of lightings even with all their issues etc.
We don’t have to disagree at all and you made it seem like you believed wmw purely because what? His years of experience it that he owns a shop and happens to sell online parts? I have asbergers and sometimes things can get heated. You might get some gains but here is what I have learned in general over the years especially on forums. Everyone is always looking for that free
power mod they can do.
Lots of people like to forum build I guess or fb group build these days. This means people like to sit around and talk about and not actually do. This is a huge issue for me as I legit just fired a bunch of my own customers in my business for this. I don’t have time for that when it comes to money.
Folks like to theoretically build cars or build engines or theoretically race or yell at the TV and tell them what play to make for a sport. What I have learned is that 90% of people never do what they are talking about. Could be lack of skill lack of motivation or money or maybe they just like to bull ***** for fun like at the bar with mates.
So I am doubting that no car in this thread that may or may not be planning on this even gets as far as front end service mode. Just getting to blower on the bench is a little bit of a chore. Would take me maybe 45 minutes I guess. I was not intentionally being rude. I do have a ton of knowledge about this platform and even more automotive knowledge in general. 2 stroke porting rotary building porting racing super moto and solo class. Ranging from Datsun to Jaguar.
Sorry it seemed that way but this is what I will say for bottom line. Taking it off, porting it lightly is not worth the effort. In the lighting there likely is small gains either because of poor internal flow design path or a larger VE sector due to four more cylinders. There is a larger chance of messing up the blower then any gains that made it worth the time. It has nothing to do with my personal build either. We can all learn from each other. But what I have learned about NAMS recent owners is that money is a issue and when money is a issue people are willing to sacrifice something to get what they want and do things more risky in the sake of more power like a 20% pulley. Terrible idea not matter what you might have read and that’s not directed at you. Seems if you search long enough you will likely find someone who backs your play for whatever you want to do.
Adam don’t do either of these man. Enjoy your car until you have more money. I am sure you planned this while head is off but dude just don’t and stop with all the ideas to get more free power. Or don’t it’s your car and your time. I get it I do you always want to be working on it because you enjoy it.
I must've been lucky with mine. Only reason I parked it was because the trans started slipping at 190,000. Can't complain though, I daily drove it for over a decade.
Not at all, but it's like you said, there is always someone who will back your play. I don't doubt your knowledge in the matter at all. I've never seen a SC that didn't benefit from porting, but these are small. It probably isn't worth the time invested to most. My time is free to me as MiniManAdam put it. One thing we can agree on, you MiniManAdam, and I are not slouches about pulling a SC in service mode.
I enjoy the back and forth. Of you don't take it personal, nether will I
Again you do what you want but it's not as crucial as you would think. I have enlarged intake manifold and of course rmw header. Having used the RMW BVH and after both of those I can tell you there for sure was no seat of the pants change and asr as the Link Ecu goes there was no VE change either registred in the Tmap. I know how you feel man you just want to do something anything on the car to keep the good times rolling. It was a hard pill to swallow when I was finally done with my r53. Like welp I have done everything and the project is over. I enjoy working more than driving sometimes. I guess its why I did work for teams rather than be a driver all the time.
I think your going to have your hands full when that head comes off with all the other ***** you should do while its off. I almost guarantee some of your PSU seep or straight up leak even if its not hitting the ground.
I agree with a lot of this and disagree with some. As stated I tested on the same car a ported M45 by Stigemyer with a CS 17% pulley, another m45 coated with a 17% pulley and did notice a peak of about 1.5lb boost on my innovate Guage. The power delivery was more smooth with the ported SC. I also have a M45 non coated (no pulley) and a M45 non coated with a WMW 15% pulley. I like the platform and am trying to build the best car for my usage. "My" usage would be a fast fun car for the mountain roads or a car I could drive to the track and back home with full interior. I feel I accomplished that with a forged shortblock, BVHEAD, cam, 550's, header, PSS10'S, and all the suspension bits. Finally I found a TVS900 and that is whats on the car now. The car on the highway is very stable and quiet in 6th but can be dropped down a few gears in a tunnel and scream. (Wife rolls eyes when we approach a tunnel)
The part where you said that you arrived to the point where no more can be done and it is very bitter sweet is exactly where I am now. I'm happy but now I find myself debating on buying a new platform and building it...or just selling everything and getting some of my time back.
Best of luck to everyone on your builds I don't root against anyone and will only share my experience.
