Hi Miniacs,

Check out the Jan '03 issue of Sport Compact Car. There is an 8 car shootout in which the "S" a participant. I have not read the issue yet but I thought you guys would want to check it out. ( Did not win test...Tied for third )

Later

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cb


Greta...DS "S", premium, cold, 17s on all seasons, DSC, fogs, lapis blue leather, chrome mirrors

 

Not surprising it did not win considering that sport compact car is mostly for the Japanese import scene.

The European (British) magazine "CAR" had the MCS beating some of the world's most expensive and exotic cars in their performance car shoot-out.

 

If the S didn't win, I refuse to read the mag. The editors are probably being paid off.

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=R= #3077
My Sharona (Delivered Nov. 28/02): LY/B 2003 MCS, Stripes, Premium & Sport Packs, Aero Grill, Sunroof & Leather. Cold Pack is included in Canada, eh?

 

>>If the S didn't win, I refuse to read the mag. The editors are probably being paid off.
>>




I hope that I am not mis-reading you - but I think I can feel the sarcasm oozing there...

Remember: sacarsm = 1 part truth + 1 part wit.

 

I don't know if you're misreading me or not. I don't think it was sarcasm - I just want the MCS to be the "Car of the Year" in every category, and in every auto mag!

I know it's not reasonable, but what the hell - we know the car is great, so why not have a xmas wish???

_________________
=R= #3077
My Sharona (Delivered Nov. 28/02): LY/B 2003 MCS, Stripes, Premium & Sport Packs, Aero Grill, Sunroof & Leather. Cold Pack is included in Canada, eh?

 

I read the article last night, and it was a real eye opener. We all like to vaunt the MINI as the best slalom racer for the price, but the Mazdaspeed Protoge and Neon SRT-4 both posted (slightly) higher speeds through the cones.

I'm a graphic designer, and care a great deal about well-designed, well crafted machines. That's reason I bought an MCS over a Scooby WRX. However, if all I cared about was pure bang-for-the-buck, then I would probably be driving a Neon SRT-4.

Take off your MINI blinders while reading the article, and you'll have to appreciate what the MOPAR engineers did with the new Neon. Bravo.

 

How fast *were* they through the cones? I'd also like to point out that the stock runflats aren't the best for stickiness, so with decent tires, the S might pull ahead a bit.

 

I read in another magazine (maybe in Motor Trend) in the back in the columns of speeds of all the cars they tested, and I think the Protoge was slower than the MINI. I'll have to go back and check now.

 

>>I read in another magazine (maybe in Motor Trend) in the back in the columns of speeds of all the cars they tested, and I think the Protoge was slower than the MINI. I'll have to go back and check now.

I just read the article, the Protege is a Mazdaspeed edition of the car. I thought the most interesting thing in this article (and I am shocked that it hasn't been discussed on this board yet), is how badly the MCS performed with the 17" tires, and said they were "dumb" tires (because of the weight), they actually were much faster with a car with the 16". They also made a comment that with really lightweight 15" a cell phone, and no sunroof, the MCS would be very fast.

 

a cell phone?

 

The Neon R/T that won the shootout is one UGLY car! I wouldn't want to roll down the road in something that ugly no matter how fast it is!

 

One comment on the Neon R/T. Anyone remember the last time dodge cranked out 4 bangers with turbos tacked onto them? I do and I don't see many of them around today. Mopar engineering needs to step up a few notches before I buy any of their products. (I will take a Viper without complaing though )

 

The cell phone is so you can call the auto club when you get a flat.

_________________
=R= #3077
My Sharona (Delivered Nov. 28/02): LY/B 2003 MCS, Stripes, Premium & Sport Packs, Black Aero Grill, Sunroof & Leather. This car wants to ROCK!

 

>>One comment on the Neon R/T. Anyone remember the last time dodge cranked out 4 bangers with turbos tacked onto them? I do and I don't see many of them around today. Mopar engineering needs to step up a few notches before I buy any of their products. (I will take a Viper without complaing though )

I'm not trying to sell anyone on the Neon. After, all I just shelled out $25k for an MCS 3 days ago, so you know where my preference is. However, I love cars in general, not just the MINI, and I think that it would be cool if the MINI community could cheer on other manufacturers for making varied and exciting vehicles.

And as far as the quality thing goes...a person in 2002 knocking on american manufacturers for their quality in the 1980s is like a someone in 1985 knocking japanese cars for their quality in the 1960s. Yes, once upon a time, Japanese cars were considered to be junk.

Things change, competition yields improvement, and we all benefit.

Whew! Sorry for the rant, but I come from 60 years of Mopar tradition, and I guess it still comes out every once in a while

 

Mopar schmopar. It's a Neon. I don't care if it's powered by nuclear fussion, I'm NOT buying it. I wouldn't even consider it. You really have to put dignity higher than hp sometimes.

R

 

I hate to break it to you ... but a that 1.6 litre engine in your MINI? Well it was slated to also be put in the European version of the Neon. I'll take all of those horses from the Neon in my MINI. Thank you!

Kurt

 

I haven't seen the article, but will try. However,

Point #1: The Mazda & Neon are modified by special tuners, not standard production run cars. To be fair you would need to get ahold of a John Cooper Works (or similar aftermarket) modified MCS and give it a go. Methinks results would be far different.

Point #2: For similar $$$ (I assume) would you want NEON style & quality or MINI?

Point #3: Research Road & Track tests and you'll find the MINI has outperformed every car in the world on the slalom except for two Porsche models (that includes Ferrari, BMW, .......NEON, Mazda, etc., etc.) Who conducts more exacting & standardized tests. R&T has been around since I was a young whippersnapper. (that's a loooong time)

Point # 4: At the end of the day, you still have to drive home in a NEON!

 

Just a quick note on the tire performance. The Cooper S on the stock 16" rims will perform better through the slalom then one equipped with the larger 17" because of the weight difference. Reducing unsprung weight makes a huge difference in a slalom setup.

Maybe a comparison of all three cars on a set of lightweight rims and sticky tires is in order.

I believe (correct me if I am wrong) the Mazda Protege has a front limited slip differential, which would help it get around a slalom. It helps even more on tight autocross tracks. If anyone out there has looked at installing one of these on the Cooper S, I would love to know about it. I think Mini Mania sells one, but I would like to know how involved an installation it is.

Both the Mazda and the Neon aren't developed by standalone tuners, they are developed by in-house specialty groups. The Neon is developed by Chrysler's fairly new PVO (Performance Vehicle Operations) group. The same PVO group develops the Viper and some other upcoming nice toys (a Viper engine in a truck?? What the ****?) .

So maybe they need to be compared to a Mini Cooper S that had the "M Motorsports" treatment?

In the end though, the MINI has a lot more to offer then just performance, which is why I ordered myself one (and it actually got produced today, and is awaiting transportation!).

 

just my 2 cents....if mini stands pat with it's current engine performance over the next few years, every new compact car coming out will blow the doors off and handle as well or better just like the new neon....hp is going up, turbos are getting better with better intercoolers, suspensions are getting better.....the new neon is very impressive and has a chrysler engine just like the mini, only better designed.....I do agree with the article that the 17" tires are stupid on the MCS...the original mini had 13" wheels....wish mine had lightweight 15" with better tires than these goofy runflats....I can see why the reg cooper is quicker through the cones than the heavier MCS especially with the 17" wheels....saw a mini the other day on the road with 18" wheels, jeez I can imagine how slow that must have felt through turns...

 

>>I haven't seen the article, but will try. However,
>>
>>Point #1: The Mazda & Neon are modified by special tuners, not standard production run cars. To be fair you would need to get ahold of a John Cooper Works (or similar aftermarket) modified MCS and give it a go. Methinks results would be far different.
>>


The new Mazdaseed Protege is not a special tuner, but a new production car for Mazda. They started selling it on the market with this turbo and body package back in October. My fiance just bought a new Protege and the sales guy was explaining the new Mazdaspped and gave us the rundown of things to come.

 

I don't know how much I agree with the 16s, handleing better. I have driven bot a MCS on 16s and 17s through some monster turns, and the 17s seemed more stable to me and had more grip, Im not an expert but feeling is believing.

 

I stand corrected. Not "special tuners" as in aftermarket, but in the case of Neon maybe special tuning dept. (?)

Do not both cars have larger displacement? 1.8L to 2+L? Again no substitute for that. Probably with promised aftermarket tuning kits such as pulley kits etc that increase the MCS output over 200hp, straight line performance will equal out.

But:
Point # 4: At the end of the day, you still have to drive home in a NEON!

 

i'll give the neon is a quick car for the money. but i dont care if it did 0-60 in 3 seconds and cost 9 grand new...i would still never buy one. not to mention in about 2 years you should be able to pick up a used one for about 3 grand! i'll take my "slow" MCS any day!

 

>>Check out the Jan '03 issue of Sport Compact Car. There is an 8 car shootout in which the "S" a participant. I have not read the issue yet but I thought you guys would want to check it out. ( Did not win test...Tied for third )
>>

Who cares! Would anyone here rather drive the winner: an 'overblown' Neon? I don't think so. I still love my EBlue MCS with 'heavy run-flats' and even heavier sunroof.

 

>>Mopar schmopar. It's a Neon. I don't care if it's powered by nuclear fussion, I'm NOT buying it. I wouldn't even consider it. You really have to put dignity higher than hp sometimes.
>>

While we're in 100% agreement about dignity and styling, note that both Cooper models are powered by MOPAR engines (made by Chrysler in Brazil). I'm a long-time Mopar buff, but gladly waited the six months to get my hands on a MCS. I never seriously considered the new Neon... no class. The MINI sits in the garage beside my '69 Plymouth Roadrunner. I really like the roadrunner since it is unappoligetically a muscle car... nothing subtle about 440 cubic inches, bright red paint, and a (stock) beep-beep horn. The cars sometimes insult each other since the Plymouth's engine is 4.5 times larger, but the MINI just takes off down a curvey road and leaves the big mopar rumbling along. Its all about purity of function..... the MINI is one serious class act!