Hellooooooooooooo.

I've posted these at the miata and mini2 (is that a bad word here?) websites to get feedback. However, finding this forum as well, I would like to get opinions here. I appreciate any feedback you can offer.

Original post:
Well, today I caved and went to look at MINI Cooper S's. I have read several posts here about MINI's etc and know a lot of people here are MINI/Miata owners.

I have some questions:

First, can anyone recommend a US oriented MINI forum?

Second, what is the MINI Select payment plan? There isn't much detail on the MINI website, but the payments are far cheaper than the traditional finance.

Third, what is the current status on the reliability issues (particularly the stalling issue)?

Fourth, what options/packages do you recommend and which are not worth it? Particularly the sport package (heard the ride is incredibly harsh, but didn't think it was bad on today's
testdrive) and the harmon kardon speaker system?

Fifth, if you had the option between an almost fully loaded S coupe, a fairly well loaded Base convertible or a S convertible with NO options, which would you choose? That's what I'm torn on here.

Lastly, overall satisfaction is where? High, low?

Any additional comments on the MINI are greatly appreciated. I am very interested in purchasing this vehicle and am trying to get a bit more info. Unfortunately it is either Mazdaspeed Miata or MINI, so having both is not an option. I plan to keep the car at least 4+ years and want to make the best decision. I love RWD and convertible, but MINI is just about as much fun and a bit more practical and comfy as well.

I'm very torn. I can get a great deal on a 04 Mazdaspeed or pay MSRP more or less for a 05 MINI. Very hard decision.

 

Followed by:
Dont' know if anyone is following this anymore....

but after driving the Mini cooper S and Mazdaspeed back to back this evening, I find myself even more torn than before.

The Mazdaspeed is superb. The handling and feel is just phenomenal. The grip is great, the car does what you want, right when you want it. Overall an excellent car at an excellent price. Downsides: the engine just still isn't oomphy enough, and compared to the MINI doesn't really like to rev and feels a bit rough. The turbo gives it kick, but turbos aren't really my thing I think. So fast you hit the rev limiter like that, and on partial throttle in upper revs, the turbo scared me a couple times. I'd have the car doing just what I wanted, left my foot in the same place, and got MORE power. Maybe I'm just not used to that, but it was a little spooky.

Then the MCS. Hopping from the Mazdaspeed to the MINI suddenly made the MINI feel a little sloppy to be honest. That feeling of driving a go-cart when I drove the MINI last week was still there, but the car didn't feel nearly as sharp as I remembered. Still great handling, but move the wheel back and forth quickly and it seemed a bit sloppy compared to the Mazdaspeed. Still great, just not as great. However, the MINI you realize just how luxurious that little car is. I LOVE the supercharged engine, smooth and powerful, right now, not rough and a bit peaky like the Miata. The car is just FUN FUN in a lighthearted happy manner, it makes you smile to be inside it. Gearbox is just okay, but the vision, room, stereo, seats, etc were very appreciated, and of course the car had a bit better ride. Funny, I thought it was harsh on Thursday, but after the Mazdaspeed I thought it was perfect on less than perfect roads. I HATED how easily the front end broke loose under power though. the TCS kept kicking in, especially on corners. Turned it off and they'd just light up. I really hope the LSD will cure this, because it was the biggest gripe.

And so I find myself right back to where I was. There is no doubt the Miata was the better handler, and being that I am moving back to the Bay Area, when I think of going for a spirited weekend drive up the PCH, the Miata seems almost perfectly suited for it. RWD, a convertible, and incredible handling, even if the engine isn't just what I was looking for. But then I think about the rest of my life, and a MINI with more power, more room, more luxury and almost as much fun to drive makes sense too. But I know it won't be as much fun on the PCH. Where the Miata would get me out there, I sometimes wonder if with the MINI I would choose to go. But no doubt the MINI would be great for commuting, going skiing, etc and be almost as good to drive.

So what have I got? Two cars I absolutely love for two different reasons. Can't get em both. Do I get the purest car (Miata) and enjoy it on the twisties on the weekend, or get the slightly more luxurious car that is almost as fun, but more practical, or at least fun in a different way? MINI is several thousand $ more, but resale is great. Miata is the best one yet, but to be honest, it drives so similarly to every other Miata ever made that I sometimes wonder what I'm getting in the 04 Mazdaspeed that I'm not getting say in a 96 (besides the obvious, the feel is nearly the same).

I'm wondering if maybe I should sit tight on this. Don't really want to, but neither of these is exactly what I'm looking for maybe. I want the handling and RWD of the Miata in the MINI package Maybe the NC will be different enough from the other Miatas that it will work.

 

Lastly:


Well, I am quite sure I'm going to be doing this MINI thing, but am looking for a few last opinions.

First deals with the rain sensing wipers. See here: http://forum.miata.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=019698 I've used them before, but as explained in the link, I'm a little wary about replacement cost should the windshield break. Also, is the sensitivity adjustable (MINI owners?)

Other is the Auto Climate Control. I will be getting the panoramic sunroof, computer, cruise, and multifunction wheel. The Premium package contains all these items, including the ACC. So, if I get all those items as stand alone, minus the ACC, the premium package costs an extra $50 over the stand alones. Basically I'd be getting the ACC for $50. However, I have had limited experience with ACC in other cars. When I did drive my father's acura, I found that many times I didn't just set it and forget it, I fiddled with the controls to override where the ACC directed the air. If I wanted it at my feet, the ACC often had it coming out of the dash vents, and vice versa. I do like the set it and forget it during the summer for some reason, and also like the fact that you set the temp, it waits till the car warms up, then blasts the cabin until the temp is correct and dials everything down. But in my limited experience, I found I rarely just "set it and forget it", and that is the main point of ACC right? Complexity worries me a little too, not much can go wrong on manual control. For $50 should I get the ACC or just forget it?

Cloth or leatherette? I would ideally like all black cloth, but the MINI comes in space grey, which is sorta a black bolster/grey middle seat. Leatherette is solid black. I like the look of the color leatherette, but the feel of cloth. Is the leatherette grippy? Sweaty? Cold? Help?

Chrome trim is $200. Might look nice, but might not be worth the $. Opinions?

Lastly, the wheels. I will get the sport package with the 17" runflats performance. Being that I have decided on BRG paint, white roof, and hood stripes, I'm thinking of getting the white wheels rather than the silver. They are a no cost option, and I'm looking for opinions.

Oh, and SIRIUS is on the website, but cannot be selected and priced yet. Anyone know details on when it is available? The dealership did not have the answer when I asked.

I appreciate all the help you have given.

Oh, since the car wouldn't arrive till Feb-March or so, when can we expect to at least see the NC at an autoshow? I am thinking about waiting for the NC, Solstice to arrive, and drive them. But I'd be talking about 8+ months likely that I would be without a MINI just waiting to try the other two. 8+ more months of my 1990 626 doesn't sound that much fun. I've already put 180,000 miles on that thing, and I'm ready for something newer and better.


As you can see I'm almost set on the MCS, but thinking I might wait to see the new Miata and Pontiac Solstice. However, thats at least 8 months estimate before getting to drive those cars, and that's 8 mos w/o a MINI. Also, I've heard rumors about special edition MINIs this spring. Any details on that?

Thanks again for any replies. I look forward to visiting more often.

 

I think what you need is a vacation.

 

welcome!

NAM is probably what you're looking for in terms of US oriented mini club. well, NAM and roadfly is another good one.

17's = if performance is an issue, do not get it. get the xenons, skip the 17's. They'll slow you down.

for interior, i am fairly happy with my space cloth decision. There is a grey/black leatherette which looks like space cloth. you can also get custom leather seating done for cheaper than the dealer. and better.

dunno about auto-anything. I like my cars manual (no daytime running lights, etc).

mazdaspeed miata for performance, mini for better all around, is how i would look at it.

There are problems with the mini: cold start, yoyo, stumble, rattles. The complainers (including myself) are a minority.

the mini turns heads, the miata turns... umm... tires. faster.

You may wish to get this to make the match more even:

05 MCS. somebody's discarded 02 struts. good rear swaybar.

That way you'll get the "harder" ride and neutral handling.

good luck with your decision. personally, i'd go miata if you don't have to worry so much about the practical. Then again, you can just spend the money for the swaybar, older struts, and a pulley to make the match up more equal. They are both beautiful cars. the mini is just cuter.

 

hmmmm..unless I am mistaken, the mazdaspeed miata is priced at 26k (assuming no discounts) while a MCS begins at 20.5k. Selecting the premium package along with the dimming mirrors and rain sensing wipers on the mcs should bring that up to a little more then 22k. Add xenons and heated seats(a must for leatherette imo) and it's 23k. That's about a 3k spread to mod a mini to match a mazdaspeed miata. That's a set of Bilsteins PSS coilovers and swaybars installed. Add a set of lightweight wheels and Miata equilvalent equipped Toyo tires and now you're a little over the cost of the Miata. You've got a pretty fast car then can hold a passenger or two in the backseat in a pinch or haul a set of rims with tires with the rear seats folded down. And once you are tired of it you can resale the mcs quickly without losing a ton of money. Now, if you get discounts on the miata that changes everything..but don't forget discounts you get now are reflected in your future resale values. Nothing is for free.

As far as some of the mcs quirks..no problem with stumbling or yo yos in our 2004. No problems with the windshield either. It does have a problem with the steering column but that should be replaced under warranty. It has a few rattles but nothing major. Overall, it's a great value..it's got a lot of bmw engineering in it.


Of course, I would never buy any miata because the steering wheel almost hits my thighs and I am not that tall or big either. No such problem with the Mini. Of course, you could always spend a little more and buy an EVO 8. That car shows it's taillights to both the miata and mcs and can hold four people. Or buy a used 964..that would be nice.:smile:

good luck either way.

 

Add a thicker rear sway bar and youll be loving that PCH drive Myself and a couple other bay area MINI owners have driven this road from about 20 miles north of Jenner all the way down to SF and all I can say is DAMN that was fun. With just a couple of mods to the car this thing should wipe the floor with what you were experiencing in the Miata.

 

I would add that for reasonable money you can do as I did and put in the sway bar H sport springs and Konis and the Mini handles pretty nice. MUCH better than stock. I currently have a Tahoe and a Mini and the Mini has become my dailey driver. I don't think a Miata could do that with my dog going to work with me and all. The Mini is appointed much nicer and I also have he premium and sport pkgs. I like the leather.


Good Luck,

Bob

 

I have an '05 MCS on order and, while I've been waiting, my wife bought a 2000 Miata. Keeping in mind that I don't actually have the MCS yet, I'll say that they're both excellent cars, tend to appeal to the same sorts of people (you don't see many people wondering whether to get a Monte Carlo SS or a MINI, for instance), and I can see where it would be a tough choice. I've noticed that new Mazdaspeed Miatas are being pretty heavily discounted, which makes prices similar, too. Like you say, the NC will be introduced soon and that's probably depressed prices somewhat.

If hauling stuff and more than one person around is a factor then obviously the MINI would be the choice. Luggage space is tight in the Miata. So is people space if you're over 6 feet tall. I'm not and it's a nice, comfy fit.

Both the MINI and the Miata have active, friendly clubs, and there are lots of good aftermarket goodies available for both. Both are great fun to drive. Both have really strong engines and people regularly get extra power out of them reliably. (I'm trying to convince my wife that we need a Flyin' Miata turbo kit and I already have big plans for modding the MCS.)

Good luck with your choice! I'm sure you'll be really happy with whichever you end up getting and that actually making the choice is the most stressful part of the deal.

Mark

 

I JUST test-drove a Mazdaspeed Miata yesterday, so I figured I would chime in.


The Miata seemed...cheap. The placement of the shifter was high and felt unnatural and disconnected. The interior was NOTICEABLY more cramped, which surprised me as the MCS is a pretty small car, too. The Miata was a fun car to drive but visibility was limited. The main advantage for the Miata is that it is RWD, which I liked a lot.

The MCS is tight. Tight steering, shifting, pedals. Supercharger whine is fun.

 

I'm sure that I am one of several current MCS owners who've owned Miatas in the past. Both cars are great fun and can be made into auto-x contenders or week-end track cars week-day commuters without too much additional investment. In comparing the two, I found the Miata better adapted to my single lifestyle, while the MCS serves the needs of my family better. Both cars are head turners, although with fifteen years of presence, the Miata might only turn heads in places like North Dakota still. If you require some practicality (and who doesn't) the MCS is a better choice. It's the perfect urban assault vehicle, able to zip in and out of traffic, while having a lockable, more secure cockpit (something all soft top convertibles lack). If this will be your only car, give serious consideration to the MINI; if it's only a week-end "giggles and grins" machine you want, get the Miata or a MCSC. As to options, get the most power you can afford, and the least amount of "bells and whistles" practicable for a more direct driving experience.

 

If I were to re-buy my MCS...now....

I would get a more bare bones model, the only options would be the Winter package, zenon headlights, rainsensing wipers, and LSD.

Then buy aftermarket wheels/tires, sway bar, upgrade pulley, exhaust, and intake, and ECU software.

I am not much of a fan of convertibles, they are worthless in Michigan. We only have 3 months of 'summer'. They are noisy, annoying at speed, usually much more expensive to insure, some are difficult to heat/cool, and have more things to possibly repair.

The HK stereo is a particular issue for me. It does some things really well, and some things not. My suggestion is bring some CD's you are really familiar with and give it a listen and ask the salesperson to help you with adjustments to you best liking. Compare the HK with the stock in another car and make your decision.

Although I would make some changes in my purchase in hindsight, I would still buy the MCS without a second thought. I have come to realize it is not the ultimate performance machine, but for the money, money to insure, styling, safety, performance, and comfort, it is the best package I can pocket.

 

fishey72



How do you like your Powerchip ECU? Is it worth it? How much?

 

I've never driven a Miata, cause i'm 6'2, so my knees hit the steering wheel, but my best friend has one that i've ridden in many times. But I can't compare, so i'll just answer ur questions:


MINI Select is a plan where u pay lower monthly payments and then at the end, u owe 12,000 on the car...so is similiar to a lease...u can then pay off that amount, trade in the car (it'll be worth more than 12k in 4 years), or finance that portion...


Reliability seems fine for 05...04s and up got much better and 05s are even better...and the car is backed by 36,000 free maintenance (including oil)...i think the stalling was a CVT thing and was fixed with software...

Options: sports package...MINI is my first sporty car, and it's not harsh to me...
rain-sensing: YES...u don't have to worry about the wipers...u can just drive!
auto AC: for 50, of course...u can always have full manual control over it, but most of time u can just set it and forget it...
chrome: i love my chrome!
MFSW: Multi-function steering wheel is a must...keep ur eyes on road, not stereo...

Coupe vs Convertible: i'm not a convertible guy, so coupe...coupe has more space and better handling...but they did do an EXCELLENT job on the convertible, so if u want convertible, go for it!

Overall Satisfaction: very high...and remember, u do see some problems on here, but that's normal for message boards...people talk more when there are problems than when things go right....

Wanting to drive out to the Twisties: the MCS is VERY inspiring...u'll find urself wanting to go out to PCH all the time...and the MCS out-slaloms the Miata, so handling is close...it is not rear-drive tho, so no throwing ur tail out...it just drives like rails around corners, so u can hold ur line and outpace M3s, boxsters, etc in the corners..."u can always tell if the MINI will win the race by the distance from the last corner to the finish line" is an old, famous saying...


Leatherette: I love my leatherette...and everyone who sits in the car says "nice leather"

Wheels: I have 17" wheels with runflats right now...for performance, i'd at least ditch the runflats and at most go down to lighter smaller wheels


Aftermarket: You can easily stiffen up the MINI even more by adding springs, coils, swaybars, etc...and u can get much more power for around $1k by adding pulley, mth chip upgrade, cai...

Fun: MINI has as good a following as Miatas and as good of clubs and getting closer to as many aftermarket items...many places that sell Miata things also sell MINI things (ie rspeed)



Bottom Line of MINI:

where else can u get a car for 20-25k (depending on options) that:

handles like a go-kart
outslaloms any 4-seater and most 2 seaters
built by BMW
has 36,000 free maintenance
has runflats
is custom-made
has such amazing resale value (ur mini will be worth 15k+ after u pay it off!)
turns heads so much
can still fit a 27" tv in the box, or 32" bare tv in the back
can get a sunroof and droptop on the same car
has such a great following and enthusiasm by owners
gets recommended for safety
can be driven in any weather
is as hard to be stolen as a BMW (chip needed to start car)


MINI advantages over Miata:
resale
safety
can fit 4
bigger cargo space
better cockpit
more details taken care of
BMW built
more practical in any weather


MIATA advantages over MINI:
rwd
price

 

Actually, the Mazdaspeed Miata is 26k.


Price is about even.

 

The quality on the '05 is miles ahead of my '03, and my '03 was really good. The problems you hear about are very minor and are only evident on a small percentage of the vehicles. Remember we are really picky about our cars and even the smallest little item we complain about. The '05 is really solid, and the cars overall appear to hold up very well. Very, very few major problems and there are quite a bit of people with some high mileage cars including 100,000+ miles.

 

The car you spec'ed at the beginning is almost exactly the one I'm picking up on Friday. (See my spec in my sig.) You've got great taste!

I have always been a fan of the Miata and if I were childless and single and didn't have a PA system to haul around with me, I might have given it more serious consideration. But after test driving a MINI - and feeling not only the awesome performance, but the quality of the appointments, the roominess (I wanted to jump back out and take another look at the outside - how did they do that?), not to mention the heritage of the car and some very fond memories of a friend's original Mini Cooper S back in my own past... Besides, around here (Sacramento) the MINI is still a relatively rare car that gets lots of attention. (That's not that big a deal for me, but I am looking forward to having people ask me about my car!)

I was in the same boat as you on the A/C. Decided to spend the $50 and get the package. (Probably helps the resale value, too, not that I'm planning on ever selling the car!) I had to go with the white S-Lites. I figure if I ever feel like I need better performance, I'll buy lighter wheels and better rubber. But to me, the white S-Lites look perfect! (Goes back to lusting after Minilites when I was a starving college student and unable to afford them.)

I used to have an MGA Coupe back when I was at Stanford. PCH and Skyline Blvd. and La Honda Road are all great fun in a great handling little coupe. (In my experience, fog was more prevalent than sun.) And if the sun does come out, you can open that B-I-G sunroof!

The only thing I wish I had ordered was the Cold Weather Package. Seemed like a silly luxury to me when I was placing my order, but my wife tells me 300 bucks for a warm tushie is money well spent.

Not to put any pressure on you, but here's my baby:









How can you resist that? (Three more days!!!)

 

Regarding the feel of the turbo during your MazdaSpeed test drive, I too think I would be spooked if the car developed a sudden extra eagerness to scoot when I wasn't expecting it. I'm sure it's something to which turbo Miata owners quickly adjust, however.

I wonder how the price of a vanilla Miata with an aftermarket supercharger compares to that of the MazdaSpeed version? I know Jackson Racing and a few other companies make SC kits for Miatas, and if you decide to go the Mazda route, it might be worth investigating. I would expect a crank-driven supercharger to produce similar results on a Miata as it does on an MINI- a flat, broad, tractable torque gain, without "peakiness."

The downside to going the aftermarket upgrade route is that it's much harder to roll the cost of the upgrades into the loan for the car- this sounds like it's a factor you'll need to consider, as well. One nice perk of the JCW upgrades for the MINI is that although they do cost, if the dealer installs them before delivery, they can be included in the "as-delivered" price of the car, and thus are more easily financed.:smile:

Best wishes on your descision- I think all of the options you are considering are "no-lose!"

 

If you didn't 'get it' the first time driving a MCS, then you might want to
just get a used S2000 for about $18k.

 

Make that price WAS $26K. Empirical evidence shows some going out the door for less than $20K right now (lots on the lot, winter and '05 models coming).

I'm a miata owner (two, actually) whose been obsessing over MINIs for the last few years, trying to write that big check only to have my new, expensive MINI sit outside (damn beach-house one car garages )

For value, the Miata is a great deal, and if you've never had a convertible - especially in the Bay Area...
MINI is much more practical (and 'neat')- don't know if I could have had the Miata as an only car.
It's really and apple and (more expensive) orange decision. The MINI convertible doesn't give you THAT much more room for the $$.

Not a bad dilemma to have though.

 

Wow. Appreciate the replies.

The Mazdaspeed pricing, before any dealing at all, is at 19,500. That includes the Ford S Plan, a $4000 rebate, and college graduate discount. Sticker is $26K+, but out the door we'd be looking closer to something under $19,000. But like I said, it isn't better enough than older Miatas to pay all that money when a $7k miata with a BRP MP62 supercharger kit would give me more what I'm looking for I think than the Mazdaspeed. The handling is incredible however.

I appreciate the pics of the car. I noticed you opted for silver interior. I'm thinking anthracite or silver, haven't decided.

Just a funny situation. I plan to keep the car for at least 5 years, so I want to make the right choice. Thing that holds me back from a MINI right now is that I've been a Miata lover since the day I drove my first over 5 years ago. I've been waiting for the day to get one. But now I found a new great car, that has the "family club" ownership experience like a Miata, handles almost as great, and is a blast to drive. RWD/convert vs FWD/hardtop. I love a sporty, spirited drive and both offer it, I just wonder what one is the one that will satisfy me on a saturday afternoon but won't tire me out during the week. I know the MINI won't, but I don't know if the Miata will. I like the small size and stiff ride, but noise and a cramped cabin may or may not bother me over the years.

Thanks again!

 

Holy smokes, $19k for a brand new Mazdaspeed Miata? I paid $19k for my A-package Miata in 1994!!! No cruise, no power anything, no ABS, cheapie interior, plastic rear window, wimpy motor, etc. etc. But I've loved every minute of my Miata. A fine car by any standard.

That said, I'll be selling my Miata in the spring for a MCSC. Why? I have two young kids now. It snows where I live, and I'm tired of parking it all winter. In fact, the Miata stays outside covered, even in the summertime, and I end up driving my Passat (which is in the garage with my wife's Pilot) 99% of the time rather than deal with the hassle of uncovering the Miata. Sad, I know.

I'll be unloading both the Miata and the Passat for a sporty convertible I can drive year-round, even in the snow.

My MCSC will probably list for around $28k as I have it specced now, but it's far more car than my 10-year-old, $19k Miata (which, BTW, has 33k miles on it). Faster. Safer. Room for 4 (kind of). Power roof. Big wheels. Lots of gadgets & goodies that my old Miata can't even dream of.

When I bought the Miata I told myself it would be the car I'd drive to my retirement party 40 years later, but what can I say, plans change.
Not sure if that helps any, but that's my perspective.

 

[Quote/] Nicholasp27 says...it is not rear-drive tho, so no throwing ur tail out...it just drives like rails around corners,
[Quote/]


ah, but I just learned to throw the tail out going thru turns. So now we can.

 

how?

sway bar?

 

, so glad you asked.....

Well for me it happened after getting rid of some of the rear camber via hsport control arms. I'd say I still have about 1.5 degrees of neg. camber, but before the arms and after I installed m7 springs, I prolly had neg. 3 degrees.

I also have a UUC sway bar set on the soft setting and all season RF's
real tires are coming soon enough with the addition of rear tire wear.