How fast we've all had our Coopers is fine, but has anyone besides me ever lost it? I have a Cooper with 17in. Pirelli runflats. The car was empty, except for the driver. It was 2:00 AM. The road was dry, with 10%?+ upgrade. I probably was going 35 into a posted "20 mph" left curve. High end of second gear. There may have been some dirt on the road. The back end broke loose and led the front around the right until I stopped in the oncoming lane going opposite my original direction. Talk about feeling helpless. And there was a Jag roadster behind me observing my predicament to add to my embarrassment. He passed me as I was stopped facing him. Fortunately I had hit nothing solid. I have driven almost 40 years and I had never spun out a car before, and I owned Triumphs, GTOs, BMWs, Ford wagons, Sedans deVille, Turbo LeBaron etc., and occasionally drove each aggressively. It is not the first time the back end began to break loose, just the most extreme example. Would different tires make an improvement? Adding weight to the back? How about the DSC? Is there something wrong with the car? Or was I just going too fast?

 

I would have told you some tips about how to handle a car in a turn, but it certainly sounds like you have plenty more experience behind the wheel than I do

But my general feeling is that 16" wheels are probably the most balanced set-up for this vehicle. Only problem is that the stock tires are just a little narrower than the ones on the 17's. A good set of 16" wheels and well matched slightly wider tires are likely to make an improvement to the handling of the vehicle at the limits.

I know that what I say about this defies the current fashion trend that favors the oversized stage-coach wagon-wheel look, but my novice experience from learning to drive on a road track makes me a believer in the much lighter weight 16" wheels with a bit more rubber between my butt and the ground.

Just one simple minded guy's opinion.

 

Thanks, Yucca,
I already noticed a couple of threads on rear sway and oversteer on the performance/modifications forum. So mine was not an isolated experience. Modifications may be indicated. There are after market anti sway bars. Then there's the driving. Maybe I let off the throttle slightly into the turn which would slightly shift weight forward aggravating the rear to break loose sooner. I have a feeling practice on a road course with an experienced instructor would pay the most dividend.
Richard

 

I have a similar setup in wheels.
I do drive a bit aggressive....well...sometimes
I've found my MCS to be rock soild and haven't had any...none.... zilch....zero...
back end slide.
I've taken ms MCS to a large parking lot...turned off the DSC...and had a blast ....trying to do...360's....but that was intentional.

I'm curious how that ...rear end slide ..happened to you ???
Peace,
D

 

I've managed to induce oversteer in the MINI on a few occasions...
Mostly by the method you described, Hard throttle into the corner,
and then lift partway through. If you do it right (or wrong, if you're not
trying), the front end unweights and the back end will start to break
loose. Once I did this, and jumped hard back on the throttle, and
managed to throw the car into a short 4 wheel drift. Fun! I haven't
spun the car around in a 180 (yet), but I can see how it would be
pretty easy.

-Pete

 

My guess is you let off the gas a bit because you sensed you were cooking the corner just a bit and experiences trailing throttle oversteer (a.k.a. lat apex TTO).

think back to physics class - you let off gas pedal and your car starts to slow - slowing car means more weight on the front wheels/tires, coeeficient of friction is constant on both front and rear tires but the front now has more normal force which means the front will stay stuck to the road longer than the back. You happened to be coming out of turn so rear is a little squirly due to less normal force than on the front so your rear decides to step around and get ahead of you. Speed of car rotation in the road is based on how fast you were already traveling - closer you get to sideways the more and more useless DSC is.

ALways remember - in a spin, both feet in (i.e. hit clutch and brake as fast as possible) - you'll come to a stop quicker and have the engine runnning so you can hopefully get the hell out of the way if another car is coming at you.

Go to the track. Love the track. Love the exhileration of doing these manuevers in a controlled (i.e. not on the road in front of me) environment.

Until I had been on the track a bit my Ferrari scared the crap out of me. Now I can break the rear loose on demand and play it a bit... but i don't because it's usually a slower way around a corner... remember, loss of traction = loss of acceleration = time to correct instead of accelerate.

-dq

 

I have not had any problems with the rear end either with my Dunlop 17" runflats.

The MINI is just solid. Of course I probably have not driven as fast as some of you and I don't intentionally lift through turns. I like to drive smoothly. I have been attacking the S-turns I find more aggressively and have been greatly rewarded. I found this 180 degree hairpin which I take faster than I should and the MINI takes it like it is on rails. It just grabs the road. I wish I could do one of those tarmac world rally races.:smile: :smile: :smile:

_________________


IB/W/W/W MCS,Aero Kit,Driving Lights,Prod date 9/14/02. Motoring since 11/7/2002

 

I was able to do a 360 in an empty parking lot with the DSC off. With the DSC on, I couldn't even get a 180.

 

When I was at the Mid-Atlantic Morgantown meet, I think I pulled a near-360 in the lot... but its kinda hard to tell when everything is happening so fast. I know I had the butt-end out a lot, I guess I'd have to find out from the spectators.

 

Even though the MINI appears to be exempt, it is still under the jurisdiction of the laws of physics just like any other car with 4 rubber tires on the road.

But once Ilearn how this bizarre little creation handles at the extremes, it is going to be the dance partner that won't step on my feet that I have searched for since I first got behind the wheel of a car.

 

Try as I may, I just can't induce oversteer. I can get understeer til the cows come home. I had a 2001 Miata LS prior to my MCS and I could pull the rear around with a blink of the eye. I really don't have much experience in a fwd car when in comes to oversteer. Just this morning I hit a 90* turn (ie intersection) at 50mph and the front just plowed at bit. Letting off the throttle for me doesn't induce oversteer, just less understeer.

R

 

The oversteer works best for me on this one 50 degree or so angle turn onto a road near campus, fly up to it at about 55, slam the brakes for a second while you turn, let off, and the tail goes flying... or all four wheels... so fun! In a parking lot, all you have to do is start driing in circles faster and faster, the understeer will turn into oversteer. Now, how many FWD cars can you find that can do THAT, hmmm? :smile:

 

I have driven almost 40 years and I had never spun out a car before, and I owned Triumphs, GTOs, BMWs, Ford wagons, Sedans deVille, Turbo LeBaron etc., and occasionally drove each aggressively. It is not the first time the back end began to break loose, just the most extreme example. Would different tires make an improvement? Adding weight to the back? How about the DSC? Is there something wrong with the car? Or was I just going too fast?
>>
>>
Turbo Le Baron?

 

If all else fails for you, go do some donuts in a snowy parking lot. :smile: