Hello all. I am in the market for a cooper s. I drove an 08 (turbo) with a JCW tune and loved it.. And then I drove an 02 (supercharged) and couldn't believe how unresponsive the car was in comparison. It doesnt wake up until 5k rpms. Always thought turbos had the lag not the other way around. I would like to pay cash and have no car payment if at all possible. So here is my question: if I buy a supercharged mini are there mods out there to make it perform like a turbo s or even a JCW? Or will I always wish I went with second gen? Thanks for any advice

Sounds like the 02' was sick....it is 11+ years old....generally many 2002 mini's are not fully conforming to slightly later builds...like 2003+, with 2005+ being the best of the sc cars....
Drive a few more IMO, then pick...

there is also a large power diffrnece as well. 200+ in the 08 jcw and only 165 in the 02 S.... like zippy said try a few more R53s and if you can a R53 jcw. that has the 200 or 210hp as well depending on year.

I prefer the first gen styling also, take a close look at the bonnet detail, cowl vents, side vents, center display. 1st gen is also a tad shorter in both hight an length.

I also prefer the SC, love the whine and the immediate pull. There are mods such as SC Lully reduction which can give you more power.

I had a '05 CP r50 MC and I was devastated when it got totaled at the beginning of this month because I was afraid I wouldn't find another 1st gen I liked, luck had it a CP r52 MCSc came in. I have only had the SC for about a month now, but I don't feel any lag or lack of power.

I would drive a few more sc MINIs.. I would try to test drive a bit newer MINI..03-05.. In my experience with turbo verse supercharger.. IMO turbos always seem to wined up quicker but tend to die off.. But superchargers seem to have good pull through the whole power curve. It just takes a bit to get them going.(rpm) that is why many like to change out the drive pulleys so they get a bit better out of the hole shot. I tend to like the sc MINIs..just because Ive work with a lot of different superchargers.. good luck!!

OK..so that's what I needed. I can mod the sc to perform like the turbo? Generally I would want a sc as well over a turbo. But I drive hard and like the acceleration. Could I get 225 or 250 HP out of a sc MC? That's what the dealer says u can get from a turbo with aftermarket mods. JCW stuff etc.

I've got an '02 MCS and an '08 Clubman S. I was indeed shocked to find how much more oomph the Clubman with the turbo had compared to my '02 MCS with the supercharger. Age may have something to do with it. I added the supercharger pulley and a K&N Typhoon CAI kit when the '02 had less than 40,000 miles on it. There is still no contest - my wife's Clubby will leave me in the dust. She will do that and get 9 mpg better mileage than my '02! I love the '02 and can't envision parting with it but I do dream of a better engine under the hood. That's my '02 bits' worth!

Bside, before you choose, like ZippyNH said, go drive a SC 1st gen car that is not "sick". I really think you will not be saying you want the SC car to drive more like the TC car. It will be the other way around. Good luck with your purchase.

You can get 300 don't know it is really recommended but you can.

http://www.mini2.com/forum/first-gen...ger-300hp.html

And then there is this, which is probably a little more realistic.

http://www.madnessmotorworks.com/min...r-package.aspx

If you do get a 1st gen stick to 05+ just seems like they dialed it in at that point.

Look for a gen 1 R53 Cooper S or JCW from near the end of that era, like a 2005 or 2006 car. They also have better gearing for slightly faster acceleration, and arguably better looking headlamps, too.

And if you want the latest possible 1st gen get a 2008 cabrio like I just did!

gearing was very high in the 02-S' low gears, especially 1st.

you need to know how to slip the clutch without eating the clutch because the car will seriously bog down if you let the RPMs drop

When I went in for a very early test drive the dealer handed me keys and said "slip the clutch or you'll never get out of the parking lot" ...

I seldom used 6th gear below 75 mph because the car needed RPM over 3000 to be efficient ... super charger needed to SPIN

keeping the RPM high and in fifth I could beat the MPG I'd get in 6th at 60-65 mph . . . which was my average commute speed on interstate highway.

The early 02 also had a VERY hard suspension which started being softened almost immediately as customers said it was too harsh. An early 02-S on 17's with runflats was HARD. As MINI softened the suspension the market for thicker sway bars improved! But I suspect any used 02 today probably has very worn bushings and dampers so the 'classic ride' will be gone.

My 02S reminded me more of my 79 (very modified I admit) than any MINI I've owner or driven since . . .

in a straight line my 06 Cooper S beats my gf's 2012 Cooper S almost every time (unless I roast the tires) The power in the SC Mini's is more linear but the turbos do have more torque. I love my 06 Mini S and my gf enjoys it too. I am going to be putting it up for sale soon though :( (I am consolidating my summer car ...the Mini and my winter car for one year round car)

You need to drive an 05' or 06' R53, usually a little bit stronger.
My 06 R53 (modified) has smoked more than a handful of the 56's with the turbo.
IMO when I was in the MINI market a few years ago, I could of bought a 07,08,09... hate the styling, and hate the turbo.
Love the supercharger and the original look, with proper headlights!

If power is your goal stick with the R53.

One very real fact....
While the motors are different, so is the rest of the car....
The look, the feel....could go on and on....
The differences are huge....similar shape, similar emblem.....
Before you pick based up two cars....decide what is important...luxury or a drivers car....
Some say the gen1 cars (sc) was a happy accident...mostly designed by rover, then partially reworked by BMW.... Ended up as an amazing car...IMO.
I would suggest NOT getting an 2002...various items are plain odd, even for a mini...and some components are NOT standard...like suspension parts.
Build quality carried greatly, as did the motors....
Most say, and I agree, if you can afford it, get a 2005+, and if you get a turbo hardtop...skip the 2007's...similar issues to first year of a new model of the 2002's....
Both the cars, turbo and sc, both have issues....but a good prebuy can help limit some risks associated with them....
Good luck!!

two totally different types of power delivery. there is more of a kick feel in a turbo esspecially when tuned, cause the turbo has to spool up. same amount of torque in a shorter amount of time will feel faster. although with a fast spooling turbo, it will loose all effieciecy at the top end. the SC produces torque whenever you put your foot down, but in a much mroe linear fashion. the only thing i have to wait for is the bypass valve to close.

also i only enjoy turbo noises with a catless straight exhaust

whereass the SC make a delicious whine that can be heard before you even see the car. yes the roots style SC is not as effiecient as a twin screw, but it does sound better, if i wanted a fast straight line car i wouldnt have gotton a mini, i wanted the whole package, that includes corners, ride quality, speed, brakes, effiency, and sound. and thats how i ended up with a R53

my GF has the 2nd gen r56 non S, granted it is the non S, but you can tell the quality isnt quite the same, and is much softer IMHO, even the S version

just my two cents..i just pick up a 06 mcs..and i love driving it every time..i make excuses in my day just to drive it..bc its just that fun of a car..i have driven a 09 mcs and the turbo (with sport button on) kind push me back in my seat also it seem more luxury .....but like others said it's not the same feelen that u get out of the 1st gen nor style.i like the r53 b/c its looks a hell a lot better,lighter and quicker..but that's just me....in my words mini whent ***** in the newer minis instead of alil hardcore..i do a few highway runs in mine..but i'm not out here try be the fastest guy in the world..kind like have a pissing contest..don't need prove anything in my mini but its all mine..hope this helps some....

You're comparing a John Cooper Works edition turbo with a very early model supercharged standard S. On top of that it sounds like that '02 car was in bad shape. No surprise you saw a big difference.

I drove an '07 MCS (first of the turbo models) for a few weeks, then went to an '05 MCS (late model supercharger), and didn't notice any immediate difference in power. The turbo definitely had much more low end torque, but power kind of trailed off at the top end. When I drove the '05 MCS for the first time, I noticed very little power below 2.5K, but very strong pull after that all the way to 7K. The fact that you say the '02 you tested didn't have power below 5k means there was probably something wrong with it.

I did drive an '08 MCS that had some 2011 updates on it and that was a little faster. JCW turbo is probably very quick.

But if you are planning on modding it, there is lots you can do to the supercharger. Get a later model one to begin with, it's probably much faster than the '02 you drove that sounds like it was in bad shape. You can get the car to 200 hp very easily with just pulley, intake, and exhaust. That still won't be as fast as a turbo JCW (has a lot more torque), but if you have the cash, you can definitely get it up to 225, 230 hp like you want.

It will take a lot of mods to get a supercharged MCS to perform like a JCW turbo, and if you just want that performance right out of the box, go with the jcw turbo. But the bottom line for me is that the supercharger is just more fun to drive. I much prefer the styling, the feel, and the noise. It sounds to me like you want to pay less to buy the car, and don't mind modifying it later, so I say get the supercharged version.

mine beat a 2009 JCW turbo with just pulley intake headers exhaust cam injectors and tune not a WHOLE lot

That's a decent list of mods IMO, maybe the other driver couldn't drive also. Just sayin..I've not driven the supercharged version but I would like to.

Exactly, I guess it depends on what's your definition of "a whole lot," haha! SPDinNY, how much hp does your car have with that set up?

Beachnmini, In my opinion people exaggerate the difference in driving experience between the turbo and he superharged mcs. There are a few things I prefer in the old model, but there are some things I prefer in the new ones. I think it comes down to styling for most people, which is an entirely personal thing.

last dyno was 226whp 199tq