#10: It actually almost sort of makes what appears to be some semblance of financial sense of you kind of squint really hard at the numbers for a long time...

1. Cost of JCW: $5500
2. Cost of inevitable
JCW-emulating mods: ($2000)
3. Cost in re-sale of said mods: ($1000)
4. Boost in re-sale of JCW: ($1500)
----------
Remaing Gap: $1000

Value of...
1. Full, unconditional
warranty coverage: ($???)
2. Pride of ownership: ($???)
3. Heritage factor: ($???)
4. Ability to smoke nearly
anything on the road at will
with what appears to be a
silly little clown car: ($???)

----------

$0 ???

 

Squint on, XAlfa! I say beef up the little clown car! I'm considering a number of mods for Wanda: JCW, Dinan (waiting for reviews when it's introduced), or Randy Webb's mod package.

 

I've already squinted myself into a JCW kit, hence the burning need to rationalize. Thanks for listening.

 

Interesting :smile:

Let me begin w/ a simple ....question????.

Has there been (1) single incident of a voided warrantee issue due to the fact that someone chose the warrantee-less mods vs. the JCW kit?????

It seems to me that the $$$$'s are not the real issue here.....instead the warrantee seems to be the big issue

JMHO :smile:

Any..... answers????

Peace,
D


_________________
PM d-mini-ero

 

Great post ~

On a recent visit to a dealer, there was a (gorgeous, but don't know if '02 or '03) IB/IB MCS in the showroom, still quite new looking - it seems the former owner wanted the JCW, and had elected to get it on a brand new MCS rather than the one they already owned, which had some (10,000 miles maybe??) use on it.

This idea made me wonder... Would YOU trade an '02 just to put the JCW stuff on a brand new MINI (as opposed to beefin up the existing ride? I'm puzzling over the economics of it, THAT's why I posted my question in this particular thread (well, plus the original post was a giggle).

Grateful as ever for any of your thoughts, but wondering if the MA made up the li'l story on the spot -

I guess a brand new car would include a brand new warranty too,
Tatt

 

>>Interesting :smile:
>>
>>Let me begin w/ a simple ....question????.
>>
>>Has there been (1) single incident of a voided warrantee issue due to the fact that someone chose the warrantee-less mods vs. the JCW kit?????

I've heard of several yes - nothing widespread though.

>>
>>It seems to me that the $$$$'s are not the real issue here.....instead the warrantee seems to be the big issue
>>
>>JMHO :smile:
>>
>>Any..... answers????
>>
>>Peace,
>>D
>>
>>
>>_________________
>> PM d-mini-ero
>>

 

<<I've heard of several yes - nothing widespread though>>

Now that's an eye-opener :smile:
Can someone please step forward.... and tell their story ...

I'm truly curious...

Peace,
D

 

I ultimately don't think it is even a warranty issue. I think it ultimately goes to a having a car that has some sort of a pedigree, that will increase the value of the car, and which in most ways is a quality kit. That is why people are paying the extra money for the kit. Sure you can get the aftermarket parts cheaper, probably less than $2,000. For the $3,500 difference you can easily get a brand new engine for the car or repair any issue associated with the mods.

After looking at a JCW, I was really impressed with the quality and general look and feel of the kit. I think when th warranty issue comes up, it is more related to the fact that the kit has been tested and shown to not affect the quality of the car.

If all you are trying to go for is performance per dollar, the JCW kit is not for you. But I think those who have bought the kit, shouldn't have to justify it. I think if you are looking for the items I mentioned above, it is worth it. I don't have it and won't be purchasing it because of the cost, but I would never knock anyone for getting it.

 

>>I ultimately don't think it is even a warranty issue. I think it ultimately goes to a having a car that has some sort of a pedigree, that will increase the value of the car, and which in most ways is a quality kit. That is why people are paying the extra money for the kit. Sure you can get the aftermarket parts cheaper, probably less than $2,000. For the $3,500 difference you can easily get a brand new engine for the car or repair any issue associated with the mods.
>>
>>After looking at a JCW, I was really impressed with the quality and general look and feel of the kit. I think when th warranty issue comes up, it is more related to the fact that the kit has been tested and shown to not affect the quality of the car.
>>
>>If all you are trying to go for is performance per dollar, the JCW kit is not for you. But I think those who have bought the kit, shouldn't have to justify it. I think if you are looking for the items I mentioned above, it is worth it. I don't have it and won't be purchasing it because of the cost, but I would never knock anyone for getting it.

Well said!!!

 

>><<I've heard of several yes - nothing widespread though>>
>>
>>Now that's an eye-opener :smile:
>>Can someone please step forward.... and tell their story ...
>>
>>I'm truly curious...
>>
>>Peace,
>>D

I too have sinned, done bought it, almost lost my marriage over it (or the sex within it anyways...just kidding) and am atoning for it every day. (Finished basement, neat and orderly pole barn, snow blowing every f....time it snows which where I live means a lot!, etc. etc.)
Why did I do it, cuz it is there. Are there better and cheaper ways, yes. do I care, no. will I do some, you bet. suspension mods coming right up.....

Now, as to warranty: A MANUFACTURER cannot, BY LAW VOID ITS WARRANTY AT WILL. A voided warranty requires an awful lot of negligence on the consumer's part and installation of aftermarket components cannot be considered that. There is a law, the name of which escapes me, that deals with this, it is pretty straight forward.
I will rresearch it and get back to you, but basically warranties are by law, pretty solid (materials and workmanship warranties).

 

Wow. I did not intend for this to flame out into yet another of the heated yet ultimately evidence-lacking "do mods void warranty?" debates. Sorry.

Based on my admittedly deluded calculations above, I was basically giving the lower risk of the JCW about a $300 value over the life of the car. This would cover the hassle factor alone of having to argue/litigate a warranty claim on a mod'ed car, whether or not you won, let alone the cost of repairs if you lost.

All that being said, I'd think a manufacturer would have a pretty solid argument if they claimed that a mod'ed car was not covered by warranty when it came to problems with the drivetrain - bottom end of engine, clutch, transmission, differential, cv-joints, etc. A clearly unrelated problem - alternator, AC pump, "automatic rain sensing" wiper sensor, etc. - is another matter.

 

What??? What the heck is that????

The difference between aftermarket mods and JCW only $1000? If you can find a math that really gives you only a $1000 difference, then heck yeah - the JCW is worth it. The warranty is worth $1000 no prob.

The JCW is nice and so is 200HP in a MINI, but that's not going to smoke much as far as sports cars go. Sure the MINI will leave most cars in the dust in the twisties, but you can do that with a 115HP Cooper.
Also for around $2000 in the aftermarket world, I'll have around 25lbs more torque than a JCW - 200lbs (Me) vs 177 (JCW) vs 155 (stock). So I'll have twice the performance gain over stock that the JCW gives.

 

>>>>What??? What the heck is that????

Just factoring in that modified cars get hurt in the secondary market. On average, a mechanically modified MCS is going to be worth something less than the identical car totally stock. This is why many folks return their cars to stock spec before selling or trading them in. I think $1k is actually pretty conservative.

 

>>The JCW is nice and so is 200HP in a MINI, but that's not going to smoke much as far as sports cars go.

Totally true. But it will smoke a far higher percentage of the cars on the road than my MC does. When you drive 80 miles a day in aggressive traffic, this is actually worth a lot... :smile:

 

When I mod'd my VW Jetta, I returned it to stock before I sold it. The mods I parted out at about 1/2 their original price. So I still recouped value out of the mods and didn't take a discount on the car itself.

I'll be curious to see how the JCW cars hold their value over time. MINI seems to be making the kits available enough that the "exclusivity" factor is getting watered down. We'll see how much of that $5500 premium for the JCW kit is actually around when it comes to reselling the car 3-5 years from now.

_________________
David Bunting :: North American Motoring :: Send me a PM

 

>> We'll see how much of that $5500 premium for the JCW kit is actually around when it comes to reselling the car 3-5 years from now.

Definitely not the full $5500. I was figuring about $1500 out of $5500 would still be around after a few years. A modest premium above a stock MCS. Even if 1 out of 5 cars has the kit (I think it will probably be more like 1 in 100 at best), that would still merit a small premium, I'd think.

 

Dennis,

Everytime I go to Classic's service dept., they notice that I have mods, but don't care, really. They say as long as they don't obviously cause a problem, its fine. I don't see how a new intake and exhaust could hurt anything. ECUs and pulley, maybe... but I'd still pick Randy's package over them all... you get good power and performance for relatively cheap.

Don't forget the installation charge for the JCW kit. $80/hour adds up fast.

 

>>
>>Don't forget the installation charge for the JCW kit. $80/hour adds up fast. this wink is supposed to go by the word "hottie" to show I am just kidding, but it won't do it!

 

Here's why I would not get the JCW package. This is a list of 3 performance packages that my dealer gave me that they can install:

Cooper SX205 Performance Package:
Reprogrammed ECU
Cold Air Intake
Borla Stainless Steel Exhaust
upgraded pulley
Cost: $4200
Increase in HP: 42

Cooper SX220 Performance package plus:
all of the above plus Cat-Back header
Cost: $5900
Increase in HP: 57

John Cooper Works Package
Supercharger w/ coated rotors
Cylinder head
re-calibrated ECU
Cat-Back exhaust
spark plugs
engine cover w/ JCW identification,
supercharger belt
front bumper and boot emblems
Cost: $6900
Increase in HP: 37

So, as you can see, besides the fact that my dealer rapes people for the JCW package, as far a sheer horsepower goes, you can get much better increases in HP for less than the cost of the JCW package. It would be nice to have the JCW package for the pedigree and all that, but I'm a cheap-*** so I'll be doing my own mods and getting better performance boosts for less the cost.

 

There have been many shoot-outs by now w/ various modded MINI's competing, the most comprehensive probably being the write-up in last November's Evo. A couple of things some modded MINI's get knocked for is an uneven torque curve, and how not all of the increased horsepower gets translated into performance numbers you can see and feel. One thing which always comes up when the Works MINI is driven hard is how smoothly and seamlessly it performs: it feels like a car straight from the factory. For those that like a bit of the raw edge, that's not a selling point, but if the idea of a smoother high performance along w/ the warranty is appealing, then the extra price is less of an issue.

 

My hands are getting sweaty, can hardly sleep at time, bonus time is upon me! Once safely in my checking account, a portion will fly off into the hands of my kind dealer and I will be in nirvana, somewhat poorer, somewhat looked down upon by super modded Mini's but I will TAKE on all comers, particularly in the twisties. and if I get beat, I know it will be my terrible driving and not my JCW Package.

 

Hi,
I'm new to the forum. Have ordered from MINI of Sterling (Va.) a 220hp engine package called the SX220. Does anybody have performance specs on this? Or any other comments about the SX220 or Sterling dealership?
John of Reston, Va.

 

I'm sure Sterling will do a fine job on the kit, and you will be happy with it. The problem I had with it, and the reason I didn't do it, was that the kit includes about $2,450 worth of parts tops, and essentially another $3,450 in labor costs. Most of the items (except pulley) are rather easy to install for a do it yourselfer, and I couldn't see how they charge what equates to 34.5 hours of labor time to install those 5 items.

 

Here is the bottom line. If you want to retain the re-sale value of your car then JCW is the only way to go. aftermarket mods drop the re-sale dramatically, the JCW actually raises the value of the car.

If you just want the best performance, then go aftermarket it will cost you initially cost much less to go much faster. you will have the fastest MINI around but it may be in a junk yard in 10 years.

The dollars and cents say JCW, If you have lots of extra money and are not to concerned about the cost of things. aftermarket is the way to go it will be more fun right now.

 

How about Dinan upgrades? They're covered under the warranty. Would going in that direction still maintain the MC's value as well as a "cheaper" performance upgrade?