R50/53 06 MCS manual shifting question
06 MCS manual shifting question
I just know that this question will be seen as crazy, but I am not sure that I know the answer and I am hoping for some help here.
I have been driving cars with manual transmissions for many years and have never burnt out a clutch. Knock on wood. But it seems I read a fare amount about clutch issues with these cars. I know that one is not to ride the clutch, but I read comments here about, "learn to rev match, heel & toe, not ride the clutch." My question involves the "rev match" and "heel & toe". What exactly does that mean and how is it best accomplished?
I drive an 06 MCS, JCW and I am really enjoying it. Have owned it for about two months.
Thanks for your help,
Lon
I have been driving cars with manual transmissions for many years and have never burnt out a clutch. Knock on wood. But it seems I read a fare amount about clutch issues with these cars. I know that one is not to ride the clutch, but I read comments here about, "learn to rev match, heel & toe, not ride the clutch." My question involves the "rev match" and "heel & toe". What exactly does that mean and how is it best accomplished?
I drive an 06 MCS, JCW and I am really enjoying it. Have owned it for about two months.
Thanks for your help,
Lon
Rev-matching...
When you depress the clutch to downshift, most people let go of the gas pedal and engine slows down, but your transmission is still spinning to whatever rate your wheels are turning. When you release the clutch with the next lower gear already engaged, the engine is near or at idle. This causes a jolt (pull back) as the clutch disc is grabbed by the clutch & flywheel. Not smooth or good for the engine/tranny and a lot of wear on the clutch disc. So... before releasing the clutch, blip the throttle to increase the RPM to "match" the tranny speed. Hence, the term "rev-match". It makes for smoother gearshifts and stable weight transfer of the car in mid-corner.
Heel-n-toe... mostly for performance driving, this method minimizes the amount of time it takes to downshift into a corner in preparation to power out in a lower gear.
Approaching corner... depress the brake pedal (right edge) with your toes while leaning on the gas pedal (to increase RPM) with the ball of your foot.... while doing all this depress the clutch, engage lower gear, release the clutch.... the increased RPM matches the lower gear for smooth mid-corner power out. Depending on how the brake and gas pedals are positioned, this can be awkward on some cars. That's why F1 cars have automated shifting by using sequential gearbox. VW Group has been offering the twin-clutch DSG gearbox on some models (including the $1million Bugatti Veyron, 1001HP). The shift is almost imperceptible!
Now go burn your clutch!!!
When you depress the clutch to downshift, most people let go of the gas pedal and engine slows down, but your transmission is still spinning to whatever rate your wheels are turning. When you release the clutch with the next lower gear already engaged, the engine is near or at idle. This causes a jolt (pull back) as the clutch disc is grabbed by the clutch & flywheel. Not smooth or good for the engine/tranny and a lot of wear on the clutch disc. So... before releasing the clutch, blip the throttle to increase the RPM to "match" the tranny speed. Hence, the term "rev-match". It makes for smoother gearshifts and stable weight transfer of the car in mid-corner.
Heel-n-toe... mostly for performance driving, this method minimizes the amount of time it takes to downshift into a corner in preparation to power out in a lower gear.
Approaching corner... depress the brake pedal (right edge) with your toes while leaning on the gas pedal (to increase RPM) with the ball of your foot.... while doing all this depress the clutch, engage lower gear, release the clutch.... the increased RPM matches the lower gear for smooth mid-corner power out. Depending on how the brake and gas pedals are positioned, this can be awkward on some cars. That's why F1 cars have automated shifting by using sequential gearbox. VW Group has been offering the twin-clutch DSG gearbox on some models (including the $1million Bugatti Veyron, 1001HP). The shift is almost imperceptible!
Now go burn your clutch!!!
Last edited by Cadenza; Aug 22, 2009 at 01:34 AM.
+1 ^ Cadenza
The other reason for rev matching or heel-toe is to prevent upsetting the suspension as you are entering a corner. By rev matching you are speeding up the rotating mass of the engine to match the speed of the wheels so that when you let out the clutch while down shifting you do not get a lurching forward, and forward weight transfer, that can unsettle the handling of the car.
A sudden forward weight transfer takes weight away from the rear wheels increasing the likelihood of over-steer. Without rev-matching a slow turning engine would try to skid the drive wheels and make for a messy and maybe entertaining corner entry.
News flash! Major recall on the DSG transmission for VW and Audi. Apparently some people are ending up with a "box full of neutrals" on some very new cars. Makes entering a highway quite a gamble.
I'll stick with a good old manual, thank you very much. Too much to go wrong with the DSG.
Heel-toe also allows you to continue to brake while changing gears. Without this you would be moving your right foot from the accelerator to the brake and back as you try to slow down and select the correct gear for exiting the corner. This increases the distance from the corner that you have to start to brake compared to being able to have a steady application of the brakes.
News flash! 2009-8-21 Major recall on the DSG transmission for VW and Audi. Apparently some people are ending up with a "box full of neutrals" on some very new cars. Makes entering a highway quite a gamble.
I'll stick with a good old manual, thank you very much. Too much to go wrong with the DSG.
The other reason for rev matching or heel-toe is to prevent upsetting the suspension as you are entering a corner. By rev matching you are speeding up the rotating mass of the engine to match the speed of the wheels so that when you let out the clutch while down shifting you do not get a lurching forward, and forward weight transfer, that can unsettle the handling of the car.
A sudden forward weight transfer takes weight away from the rear wheels increasing the likelihood of over-steer. Without rev-matching a slow turning engine would try to skid the drive wheels and make for a messy and maybe entertaining corner entry.
News flash! Major recall on the DSG transmission for VW and Audi. Apparently some people are ending up with a "box full of neutrals" on some very new cars. Makes entering a highway quite a gamble.
I'll stick with a good old manual, thank you very much. Too much to go wrong with the DSG.
Heel-toe also allows you to continue to brake while changing gears. Without this you would be moving your right foot from the accelerator to the brake and back as you try to slow down and select the correct gear for exiting the corner. This increases the distance from the corner that you have to start to brake compared to being able to have a steady application of the brakes.
News flash! 2009-8-21 Major recall on the DSG transmission for VW and Audi. Apparently some people are ending up with a "box full of neutrals" on some very new cars. Makes entering a highway quite a gamble.
I'll stick with a good old manual, thank you very much. Too much to go wrong with the DSG.
Last edited by Bilbo-Baggins; Aug 21, 2009 at 02:29 PM.
Yeah... I heard about it. The recall is actually not for older units but '09 model year. Apparently, it's a faulty temp sensor (for the tranny fluid). My guess is too high or no temp reading would cause the Transmission Control Module (TCM) to go into limp mode to protect the clutches from overheating. It works similarly to temp sensors for the engine coolant, but limp mode here means low power and/or lousy gas mileage.
I don't own one with the DSG yet but have test driven a few (GTI, TT, Jetta TDI). For convenience, it's great... especially if you have to deal with SoCal traffic. Down side, like you said, may not hold up to 200k and costly maintenance (every 40k fluid change).
I don't own one with the DSG yet but have test driven a few (GTI, TT, Jetta TDI). For convenience, it's great... especially if you have to deal with SoCal traffic. Down side, like you said, may not hold up to 200k and costly maintenance (every 40k fluid change).
Last edited by Cadenza; Aug 21, 2009 at 04:23 PM.
Are you not thinking of double clutching? Rev-matching usually only refers to matching the speed of the clutch to the flywheel. This is something I do while driving regularly, easier on the clutch and a smoother ride.
Double-clutching is an extra step in a rev-match down-shift in older vehicles w/o synchros and big rigs. The objective is to match the input shaft speed to that of the output shaft, which is connected to the wheels.
1. push clutch in
2. move gearshift from 3 to N
3. clutch out
4. blip throttle to match revs
5. push clutch in
6. move shift lever from N to 2
7. clutch out
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I always kind of wished transmissions had a tach so that way when the two lined up you could just shift it.
Though i can shift my corvette without a clutch under light load ive never been able to do the same with the mini.
Though i can shift my corvette without a clutch under light load ive never been able to do the same with the mini.
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