Assuming I can't sort out the battery issue I'm having on my main autoX car, I'm likely to end up taking the MINI to the season opener next weekend. I took it once last year and was honestly kind of disappointed with a couple thing... One of which was the brakes. The damn ABS seemed to kick in at unusually low levels of braking - I'm theorizing it was due to the inside-rear wheel lightening and / or lifting - which really killed my concentration (There are few feelings I hate more than that sickening grinding feel in the brake pedal... Uhg...) I was wondering if I could unplug the sensors for just the rear without causing all kinds of errors to crop up - or is the only solution to pull the fuse and cancel everything (which I hear messes up the bias a lot)?

 

You should talk to S-Driver on NEMINI he runs his MINI in SM and was faster than some of the EVO's and STI's last year. If it really is as bad as you say then I doubt he would have been able to do that (barring really awful EVO drivers of course). I honest dont have the same feeling, but that might be because all my braking is done in a straight line (barring trail braking).

What pads and tires are you using? That would of course play a big role in how the car behaves.

If you arent sure how pulling the fuse affects things (bias wise, which would be weird), you could try a run with the fuse out and see what happens.

EDIT: As I suspected there are other things run off the ABS fuse, see the post below.

 

You can pull the fuse to kill the abs (along with the gauges n stuff...). When I tried this, it gave me way too much rear bias, I ended up putting the fuse right back in.

Jason

 

Yeah, I had read that elsewhere. The pads were stock when I encountered this issue, but they have all been changed to HPS since. They feel roughly the same as stock though, so I'm not expecting dramatic differances The tires are some non-Azenis Falkens, can't remember the model off the top of my head but they're probably in line with ultra-high-performance summers by tire-rack standards. I wasn't overly pleased with them on the autoX surface.

At any rate, does any one know the fuse # off-hand? I might want to at least experiment with it. IIRC it's in the engine compartment, not the cabin... right?

 

The fuse I pulled was in the kickplate. I don't remember which one, but I think the diagram on the panel denoted it as ABS.

In my experience with it, the rear locked up more than it should have - braking that didn't cause ABS intrusion with the fuse caused rear wheel lockup without the fuse.

 

Hey, I'll take my rotation however I can get it, LoL!

 

Do you disable the DSC? Sounds like that is the culprit. Never had a problem with the abs kicking in too hard.

 

Yes, ABS is the PITA and DSC has nothing to do with ABS as far as braking goes. you can pull the fuse that's in the engine compartment. I think it's the bigger one of the two. If you pull the second one as well, your gauges will stop working and also the stability controll will be totally disabled. (for those of you that think that hitting DSC switch turns it off completely).

 

Please explain....

Jason

 

I noticed this in winter when I was running without ABS fuse which naturally kills the need for playing with DSC switch at the same time. I went out and played in the snow with some use of handbrake and very minimal brake involvement. After I got home 30 minutes later my brakes were scorching hot. This led me to the conclusion that there has to be some other system active that tries to stabilize the car during my "fun". So i went out into the snow again and this time i noticed that when I lock up wheels with the car going sideways I can hear and feel some ABS based system applying various pressure to the brake system. Sor of like ABS but little less audible.
After pulling second ABS fuse from under the hood, this is completely gone and car behaves "freely" much to my liking

I did however leave the 2nd fuse for the winter and drove with only main ABS fuse pulled out as I didn't feel like driving around with a lights galore on my dashboard and speedo not working (this is what happnes when you pull the 2nd ABS fuse.)

 

The DSC switch does turn off the dominate DSC functions......traction control and the DSC. It does not turn off the EBC function.

 

I found an adaption in driving style really helped my times - braking harder, more in a straight line, then bringing on the turn. I had been using a more "vintage" style of trail braking which felt good, but didn't carry the speed or use the brakes as effectively as I should. I had to brake harder, felt like braking through the ABS, then get on the gas in the turn rather than try to carry speed through the turn. It was fun hanging with some well-driven 350Z's a couple weeks ago...

 

Maybe it is different in 06, but I can defiantly tell you the switch removes all DSC functions on my 03, without a doubt.

 

possible. Also, to summarize my findings:
- not touching any fuse or switch - car will not unersteer, nor oversteer freely as the systems are doing their job. Also, systems limit your wheelspin on take off and ABS is working.
- flip the DSC switch - you can understeer now but extreme oversteer is still somewhat controlled by small brake pulses to the rear and front wheels. ABS is still working, and DSC does not controll our wheelspin.
- pull the big ABS fuse from under the hood panel - essentially car behaves the same as with the DSC switched off per above but also the ABS is not working during braking. Extreme oversteer is still somewhat controlled by small pulses.
- pull the big ABS + small ABS fuses from under the hood - None of hte systems are working (ABS, DSC) and there is no more small brake pulses during extreme oversteer.

Here. This is what I observed.

 

Interesting, maybe the ECU changeover from 04 to 05 implemented different DSC settings...

In our Canadian winters with a 25mm rear sway theres no interaction when my DSC is off, makes for fun times

 

For the records, I shall provide this update:

I went to the aforementioned autox today, and after getting my chassis and tire-pressures set where I wanted them, I decided to pull the ABS fuses. I pulled 2 in the engine compartment – one 20A blade and one 30A block. I experienced no major rearward brake-bias shift as others had mentioned, though they did lock once or twice (but so did the front on other occasions, so it seemed OK to me). It seemed much easier to modulate the brakes and I felt like overall the car preformed more to my liking without ABS intervention – But that could just be my own preference, since my proper autox car has no ABS and therefore that’s what I’m used to. Side effects were mild and included a non-functioning speedo, ABS, brake, tire, and SES warning lights. Replacing the fuses cured all but the SES, which I presume will go away in a day or two.

Vehicle data: ’05 MCS, Hawk HPS pads, Falken FK something-or-other (not Azenis) summer tires, TSW springs, 22mm RSB on full stiff, and other un-related mods.

 

After all my years of driving this car, most of them with the DSC off, I can say pretty confidently that the system is truly off when I flip the switch. However, since the last thing I'd do in an oversteer situation is hit the brakes, I cannot comment on the 'small pulses.'

As for the electronic brake distribution system, that seems to be always on since my rear brakes heat up more with the car loaded with people than without. It might be just the normal physics of a loaded car, or it may be the system increasing brake pressure back there.

Furthermore, I have no way of testing the right/left corner brake distribution so I cannot comment on this part of the system.

On the whole, even if DSC is still on when it's "off," I can still have loads of fun and can sustain serious oversteer.

 

I gave this a try today. Was my first time ever driving a car without ABS, and I can say it is definitely an interesting experience if you have never done it before. I may have dropped half a second just by pulling the fuses, I cant say for sure because I dont have a data logger, but up until that point I had basically hit a wall with my times. The rear end was definitely more lively under braking, suggesting a "bias shift". The tendency for my rear to get squirly under braking was likely a function of 4 things that were exacerbated by the lack of ABS, and not actually a bias shift:
1. worn tires on the back
2. insane tire pressures in the back (45psi)
3. Different pad compounds front and rear (rears are stock, fronts are slightly less grabby Axxis Ultimates)
4. First time driving a car without ABS

In any event, I am convinced that no ABS helps enogh that my next AutoX will be with it disabled for the entire event. I did get a code as a result of doing this, which I think I was able to clear with my scan gauge. I will report on whether or not it is actually gone tomorrow.

 

I'd have liked to see how it would have worked for me at an FCSCC course, since they're typically way, way bigger than the CART stuff I've been running - It didn't get too spicy for me on the little course, but I could imagine it could be real lively on a faster stuff... I'd NEVER try it on a road course for sure.

But yeah, good stuff, right?

 

Indeed. The FCSCC course was pretty fast, my top speed was 47mph (logged with a ScanGauge). The nicest thing I found was that it made it really easy to get the car rotating. It is very hard to trail brake well with the ABS on, ABS off lets you do that.

And I was able to clear the code up with the ScanGauge, so no problem there either.

 

+1 with my '04.