I have service scheduled for Oct 15th for several rattles and have a few observations that I am wondering if I should mention to the dealer. If the community could verify or dispute the normality of my observations, it would be greatly appreciated.

1. I hear a clicking and or popping sound coming from underneath the car towards the back. At first I thought it was the exhaust but it has no pattern. I can hear it only when sitting still with the radio off. Never heard anything like it before from a new or used car. Not real loud, but noticible. Normal ?
2. Is this the ugliest shifter/tranny you have ever owned ? It is for me, worse than my VW new beetle, 2000 Miata and even my 1986 Chevy s-10. Getting through the gate to actual gear engagement requires you to very forceably and counciously crash through the last inch or so, resulting in noticeable click or clunck. I am not talking about from the tranny though but from the shifter itself. Repeatably while being casual in my shifting effort I find that the shifter is reluctant to go through this last inch or so but is willing to go into another gear. Attempting rapid shifting will on accassion result in a dreaded GRRRINNDDDD. Is this just the result of cable linkage? Will this shifter never be thought of in the same light as the Miata ? Is it technique ? Or is mine in need of service ??
3. If as BMW claims the Mini is Uber stiff and it's chassis has realy tight tolerances during manaufacturing, why does mine squeak, ratttle and pop going down the road ?? If the chassis isn't flexing, what causing all this noise? My latch, my glovebox, my windows were they touch the molding are all giving me audio verification that in fact the road is not perfect. Is my mini missing some bolts or braces ? Should a car with less than 3,500 miles make this much racket already? Do they all do this ??
4. Lastly, I have question for any H/K stereo owners. In doing some reading on the web (since no real doco is apparently going to be provided by BMW) I was under the impression that the H/K mini mode would turn the back speakers into subwoofers. On my car, turning the fader to the back while in this mode, you can hear that very little power is being sent to the back speakers, and it is definetly not lowend, it is highend. This is not to say that the lowend is missing, oh no, it is obviosly being directed the door speakers. It is nearly overwhelming. When the fader is in the normal position and volume is applied, in this mode, the bass is the overpowering instrument, regardless of the type of music, the midrange is there, it's just getting killed. Rolling off some bass helps but by the time the bass seems normal again, you have cut so much that your midrance is gone anyway and attempting high volume at this setting creates so much treble the whole excercise seems pointless. Is my H/K miswired somehow, or do they all sound like this ??


Any and all input is greatly appreciated.

 

>>1. I hear a clicking and or popping sound coming from underneath the car towards the back. At first I thought it was the exhaust but it has no pattern. I can hear it only when sitting still with the radio off. Never heard anything like it before from a new or used car. Not real loud, but noticible. Normal ?
----------

Normal for the MINI. It's the heat shielding expanding and contracting. It does make a lot of noise.


>>2. gh this last inch or so but is willing to go into another gear. Attempting rapid shifting will on accassion result in a dreaded GRRRINNDDDD. Is this just the result of cable linkage? Will this shifter never be thought of in the same light as the Miata ? Is it technique ? Or is mine in need of service ??
-----------

Mine is notchy, but certainly not hard to shift. I like the feel of my shifter. Yours may need some service. It does make a clank noise when shifting from 1st to 2nd, and this is widely reported, so I'd say it is normal.


>>3. If as BMW claims the Mini is Uber stiff and it's chassis has realy tight tolerances during manaufacturing, why does mine squeak, ratttle and pop going down the road ?? If the chassis isn't flexing, what causing all this noise? My latch, my glovebox, my windows were they touch the molding are all giving me audio verification that in fact the road is not perfect. Is my mini missing some bolts or braces ? Should a car with less than 3,500 miles make this much racket already? Do they all do this ??
-----------------

The majority of noises come from interior plastic bits rubbing against each other and metal. The door panels, speaker housings, dash board, glove box, etc. all are culprits in rattles, squeaks, and pops. Because the MINI is so stiff and because the shocks/springs are so firm, the road surface constantly jars and vibrates the entire body. It's a MINI thing. I have managed to get rid of all rattles/squeaks except for one in my glovebox, and I'm wrapping the entire glovebox in felt this weekend. :smile:


>>4. Lastly, I have question for any H/K stereo owners.

Can't help you there.

See ya,
JS

 

I can help with your last question: Yes, all the H/K systems sound that way. It's not the worst stereo I've ever owned in a car...but far from the best. No matter how I adjust it, the sound is just not....right. Not horrible, but I can't tweak it to be like I'd prefer it to be. Now that I've spent $550 on the H.K...I'm thinking some day i'll replace it with a different system.

By far the best sounding car stereo I've ever owned was in my 1998 Oldsmobile Intrigue...it was a modest 200 Watt 8-speaker Bose system...beautiful sound for any style music.

Rock On,

-MB

 

RE: H/K

Yeah, the bass is a bit arrogant but I find I can adjust it to perfect (for me). I believe, however, that the SPATIAL mode is the one that effectively turns the rear speakers into subs.

 

I had a terrible time with the gear shifting when my MINI was new. This does ease up after a few hundred miles. Now that I'm past the 1200 mile break-in, I don't even notice it anymore and it seems quite smooth.

As for the H/K, I found the Mini HK setting to be mostly from the front speakers, and it didn't sound right to me. So, I use the SPATIAL for all my settings, sometimes adjusting the fader and bass a little. I'm happy with this sound, but the others seem kinda pointless.

Enjoy!

 

I have never heard any heat shield creaking or popping from my MCS.

I find the six speed Getrag to be a smooth shifting gearbox; my only complaint is the shifting gates are a little vague.

I have had so many rattles, thumps, creaks and buzzes in my MCS I have nicknamed it the “Rattle Trap”. The car has been very disappointing in this regard.

I am not an audiophile by any stretch and I use my HK stereo radio mainly to listen to AM talk radio, however when I do listen to the CD, my favorite tunes are piano concertos and if I listen to them with any volume I get an annoying buzz in my door speakers.

My MCS is six months old and has 8,300 miles and will be in need a tires soon, I have enjoyed driving this little car.

_________________
2003 Chili Red/White MCS, sport pack w/white wheels, cold weather pack, black leather w/anthracite dash, DVD-based Navigation w/OBC, HK sound, MFSW, PDC, rain sensing wipers & auto dim mirror.

 

gmack,

do you have MC or MCS?

Regarding your questions:

>>1. I hear a clicking and or popping sound coming from underneath the car towards the back. At first I thought it was the exhaust but it has no pattern. I can hear it only when sitting still with the radio off. Never heard anything like it before from a new or used car. Not real loud, but noticible. Normal ?

I don't have a sound like the one you describe, from the rear (I have an 03 MCS). Based on that I'd say not normal.

>>2. Is this the ugliest shifter/tranny you have ever owned ? It is for me, worse than my VW new beetle, 2000 Miata and even my 1986 Chevy s-10. Getting through the gate to actual gear engagement requires you to very forceably and counciously crash through the last inch or so, resulting in noticeable click or clunck. I am not talking about from the tranny though but from the shifter itself. Repeatably while being casual in my shifting effort I find that the shifter is reluctant to go through this last inch or so but is willing to go into another gear. Attempting rapid shifting will on accassion result in a dreaded GRRRINNDDDD. Is this just the result of cable linkage? Will this shifter never be thought of in the same light as the Miata ? Is it technique ? Or is mine in need of service ??

Do you have 5sp or 6sp?
I have 6sp, and the only gear that is hard to engage is reverse. One reason I chose the MCS was bcs of 6sp, on test drive I did not like the feel of the 5spd at all. My 6spd shifts very well, no problem. I'd say if fast shifting produces grinding sounds, then you have a problem, mentione ot to the dealer! Either your clutch needs to be adjusted, or your tranny has a problem.

>>3. If as BMW claims the Mini is Uber stiff and it's chassis has realy tight tolerances during manaufacturing, why does mine squeak, ratttle and pop going down the road ?? If the chassis isn't flexing, what causing all this noise? My latch, my glovebox, my windows were they touch the molding are all giving me audio verification that in fact the road is not perfect. Is my mini missing some bolts or braces ? Should a car with less than 3,500 miles make this much racket already? Do they all do this ??

The MINI is indeed very stiff, and the runflats (if you have them) are also very non-compliant. This will transfer street imperfections to the chassis and all components inside, which on other cars would be absorbed by the suspension. This is onen reason the MINI creaks, pops, groans, squeaks and rattles so much: it's because of the stiff chassis and suspension. The second reason is that the interior assembly is cheaply done, with lots of plastic-plastic contact areas prones to creaking. Some can be sorted out, others not. I've resigned myself to living with all these noises, afterall, it's a british car.

>>4. Lastly, I have question for any H/K stereo owners. In doing some reading on the web (since no real doco is apparently going to be provided by BMW) I was under the impression that the H/K mini mode would turn the back speakers into subwoofers. On my car, turning the fader to the back while in this mode, you can hear that very little power is being sent to the back speakers, and it is definetly not lowend, it is highend. This is not to say that the lowend is missing, oh no, it is obviosly being directed the door speakers. It is nearly overwhelming. When the fader is in the normal position and volume is applied, in this mode, the bass is the overpowering instrument, regardless of the type of music, the midrange is there, it's just getting killed. Rolling off some bass helps but by the time the bass seems normal again, you have cut so much that your midrance is gone anyway and attempting high volume at this setting creates so much treble the whole excercise seems pointless. Is my H/K miswired somehow, or do they all sound like this ??
>>

I have the HK and am very happy with it, of all the car stereos I have played with, it's the best. Having said that, it is difficult to adjust, AND, I believe that some of the HK units or installations are faulty. I have heard people mention that they cannot get much volume from the HK, and mine is so loud it could blow my ears out. I would have the dealer check the connections to the rear speakers. The rear speakers have two voice coils, and I believe one is used for subwoofer function, the other for full-range (or maybe both for full range). It could be that one of the coils is not hooked up, or that some of the connections at the rear power amp are not hooked up correctly.
So, I'd say your HK is either miswired (and several appear to have been) or defective. It is probably not the best stereo you could get, you can certainly get finer aftermarket units for more money, but it is a very, very good stereo for $500.

Cheers,
Markus

 

Thanks to everyone.

I have noticed over the weekend that if the car is traversing uneven terrain, while attepmting to shift, that inserting the lever through the gate can be nearly impossible. When the the road is smooth again, it goes right in. I better have the dealer look at it, just in case.

The rattles and such, will be addressed as well. As far as why there are so many, my next test drive of any vehicle will put a lot more priority into this, since it is apparent that some manaufactures, don't. Inserting felt at the dealer instead of addressing this at the plant ?? Poor testing, very poor. Flexing in the a-pillars ?? Shamefull. Not retrofitting the cars you've already sold ? Unforgivable.

The heat shield making the noises under the car, almost makes sense. I would think if that's the culprit, than I would here it when the car is powered down, and either cooling off or was still heating up. I will have to test that theory. I only recall hearing it with the engine running, but could be wrong.


As far as the H/K goes, I will have to play with it more. I have enough volume, I just can't make any lowend come from the rears. I realy need some documentation. My dealer had none and seemed to believe none was forthcoming.


The only question I have now is whether to postpone my appointment. A ECU reload is scheduled as well. The dealer said he has v.35, but I had heard this was not the fix. I will call them on the 12th. By then hopefully some clearer data will be available on this topic, or they will have a newer version.


Thanks again ...

 

On the H/K issue. It sounds like your system has not been set up correctly. I would have the dealer recheck the system. My dealer had problems initially with the installer programing/activating the system in the test mode which was not correct. There is some excellent info on MINI2.

Here is the article. I hope you get it to the point where you enjoy it. I keep mine on the electronic mode with the bass turned down some.
"
A combined review and tutorial....

Because there has been some controversy and apparent misunderstanding of the nature of the upgrade H/K audio system offered by MINI, I thought it might be useful to explain some of the features and the apparent design philosophy behind the system for users and prospective purchasers of the system. I suppose the situation is only exacerbated by the scant information in the MINI stereo manual. As a recording engineer by trade, I have worked for years with Harman Kardon and Harman Group professional equipment and have developed a respect, and a certain trust, for their products. Given that, I stuck out my neck and ordered the H/K stereo sight-unseen. I, for one, wasn’t disappointed. After listening to and analyzing the system, here are my observations. Please understand that all the information contained in this document was acquired through “reverse engineering”, meaning the information came from listening to and experimenting with the system, rather than from Harman Kardon. Where the heck is the manual that should have come with this thing?


EXPECTATIONS
Everyone goes into a stereo purchase with his own expectations. Let’s define some relevant terms to make things easier to discuss:
Imaging: How we perceive or “visualize” the physical location of individual sounds in a program.
Point source: One end of the imaging philosophy spectrum preferring an ability to easily pinpoint the physical locations of particular sounds in a program.
Diffuse Field: The other end of the imaging philosophy spectrum preferring to spread sounds throughout the listening area to make them fill the space and sound “bigger”.
Flat response: Uncolored sound. Reproducing all frequencies within a program at the same loudness level. In the real world this isn’t possible but it is one goal for which some manufacturers strive.
EQ: Equalization. A tool designed to make a sound system reproduce all frequencies at the same volume level and reproduce uncolored sound. The moment an equalizer got into a user’s hands, it also became a creative sound-shaping tool, allowing the user to color the sound to his tastes. It’s a little bit of audio democracy.
Hollywood Curve: A frequency-response coloration that adds volume at the low and high ends of the frequency range to make a program sound more exciting.
“Loudness” Contour: A circuit designed to be used while listening at low levels which superimposes a curve similar to the Hollywood Curve onto a signal to compensate for the ear’s reduced high and low-end response at low listening levels.


PHILOSOPHY AND INTRO
Now that we are all talking the same language, lets dive into the apparent design philosophy of the H/K stereo and learn to match its capabilities to our expectations. The Harman Kardon Stereo system available for the MINI has been specially designed to acoustically compliment the interior of the MINI. Armed with a little information, the user can choose from a variety of combinations of sound dispersion patterns and broad frequency response curves to suit his needs. The apparent design goals for the MINI H/K were:
1) To create an extremely high-quality audiophile-type sound system
2) To create a moderately high-powered sound system.
3) To create a system with the flexibility to handle differing music, listening situations, and tastes.
4) To create a system which takes up no more precious user space in the car than the base-level system.

In order to achieve these goals, the system is built around a multi-channel amplifier which hides in the right-rear trim panel of the boot, a digital signal processing (DSP) preamp (contained in the amp), and eight high-quality speaker elements, some of which are dual-tasked. There were some compromises, but there always are. The DSP system is controlled by menus within the “Boost” head unit that is standard in the US. and an upgrade in the UK. The H/K system provides for both Point Source and Diffuse Field dispersion patterns with its menu-selected MODES. It also provides a mode that allows front and rear-seat passengers to hear roughly the same sound.

I should mention that there are also diverse philosophical approaches to frequency response in stereo design. The two ends of the philosophical spectrum are represented by:
1) Attempts to create the most flat and neutral reproduction system possible, and
2) Creation of a system which “flatters the music” by deliberately adding and subtracting volume at various frequencies in order to create a rich, “bigger than life” sound.

The H/K system caters to both, providing a fairly flat mode and some colored modes to allow the system to appeal to differing tastes. Due to my profession, you can probably guess which type of system I prefer. At home and in the car, I like for my stereo systems to be fairly flat but have just a tad more bass and treble (a slight Hollywood Curve) because those additions flatter most music.


OPERATIONAL NOTES
As a starting point it would be wise to choose the dispersion pattern you desire. First set the MODE to achieve this pattern and then tweak the EQ to your tastes. Descriptions of each of the modes follow. Because each of the modes features its own frequency response curve, it is likely you’ll want to tweak the EQ after you change modes. The reasons for this will be obvious in a moment. As you may already know, the Boost head unit which is used to control the H/K system offers individual tone settings for each input to the system (Radio/CD/CD changer, etc.). On a side note, the “Tone Lin” feature neutralizes all the EQ settings you’ve tweaked up so nicely in one “fell swoop”, by resetting the EQ controls to their middle position. Be careful!


SPACIAL CONSIDERATIONS
Point Source
If you wish to preserve the spacial integrity of the stereo signal, you should use the “H/K MINI”, “Electronic”, and “Instrumental” modes. These modes use the rear speakers as woofers and sub-woofers, and the front systems as midrange and high-frequency drivers. The result is a front stereo soundstage with exceptional left to right imaging and tonal clarity and strong, deep, and clear bass response reinforced from the back. Because bass frequencies are much less directional than mid and high frequencies, from the front seats the bass is not perceived as coming from the back. Because the MINI interior is fairly small and because mid and high-frequency sounds reflect from hard surfaces, as volume comes up, the mids and highs spread throughout the cabin pretty well. At lower levels, however, the back seat passengers may not hear much high-end sound.

The Point Source programs offer a further spacial enhancement, “Driver”. By employing minute delays and volume adjustments, “Driver” setting optimizes the soundstage for the driver, simulating the sound you would hear when seated centered between the speakers. To my ears, it appears to collapse the sound field a little towards the center a tad. You will have to decide if you like this mode for yourself.

Diffuse Field
If you wish to spread the sound around the cabin and create a “wash” of sound which surrounds you, or if you will be carrying passengers in the back who care about the quality of the sound, select the “Spacial” mode. This mode uses the two rear speaker systems as full-range systems and thus presents to the back and front similar material. Similar, but different, because the frequency response of the two systems is different. “Spacial” mode provides the basic four-speaker car stereo array with enhanced spacial spread added by surfing the tone differences between the front and rear speakers. To demonstrate this, with the car parked, the stereo playing, and you in the driver’s seat, turn your head to the right and look out the passenger window. You should be able to hear the front-to-rear spread. You’ll probably notice a little drop in bass and lower-midrange frequencies in this mode as the rear speakers are used as full-range systems. You can, however, adjust the frequency response of the system with the front-to-rear fader.

“Festival” mode blends delays into the front speakers and sends a reduced front signal plus reverb to the rear speakers to create a “concert hall” type of sound. You can hear the delays when transient sounds are played. During the silence while changing CD tracks you can hear the reverb ring out in the rear speakers. Oh, wow, man.


POINT SOURCE MODES AND TONE
Each of the point source modes offers a slightly different response curve. Of the Point Source Modes, “H/K” provides a smooth and open midrange sound with solid bass and crisp treble which makes it excellent for vocal music and a good starting point in experimenting with EQ curves. It also has a very natural but full bass response with plenty of dynamic range. As you raise the volume, the bass becomes more and more solid. Don’t be surprised if you find yourself adding a little treble. The better the recording, the better it will sound in this mode. Break out the wine and cheese, this mode has “audiophile” written all over it.

On the other hand, “Electronic” mode applies a generous Hollywood Curve, much like switching in a “Loudness” contour. Those who listen at lower levels may find this compensates for the ear’s non-linearity down there. At louder levels, you’ll find thick bass and sharper highs. Do you have any recordings that are weak in the bass and treble? Remember the ‘60s and early ‘70s? If so, were you really there? How about the boxy, electronic ‘80s? “Electronic” can make them sound more alive by bringing out the cymbals, bass, and kick drum. Make it jump off the speakers, man.

“Instrumental” mode seems designed with classical music listeners in mind, with very little “hype” and very flat response as its hallmarks. This lack of hype allows you to jack up the volume to hear low-level passages with little fear that a sudden swell will blow the speakers out of your doors. A recording that is too brittle on the high-end and too boomy in the bass can be mellowed out by this mode. The flat response will also minimize the little irritations classical recording can manifest (hall rumble, string razz from the violins, page turns). This would also reduce the problems in those PBS classical broadcasts. Put on your black tie and enjoy.


WHOOP-TEE-DOO! WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN, BASIL?
If you are looking for an earth-shaking, modern, extremely high-powered system designed for hip-hop, and you plan to run it at 110db or above, maybe this isn’t the system for you. If you are looking for the type of system that can be heard from within your living room as a car passes out on in the street, this possibly isn’t the system for you. If you are looking for an “attack” system that can be leveled on the other motorists around you at stoplights, this probably isn’t the system for you. That isn’t exactly “Motoring”. Do I sense an attitude from the author here? Sorry. At any rate, those systems typically need a separate sub-woofer, which takes up extra space in the foot well or boot, space that is at a premium in our MINIs. If you are hoping to have a system with four similar-sounding speaker locations, this may not be the system for you.

If, on the other hand, you are looking for a reasonably powerful, musical, wide-range stereo, one which can be configured to optimize the front seat listening experience or provide music for all, this might just be the system for you. If you enjoy “audiophile” stereo systems at home, this may just be the system for you. If you don’t want to loose foot room or trunk space and want to keep the nondescript (though excellent) Boost front-end unit to deter theft, this might just be the system for you. Also remember, when installed at the time of purchase, this stereo is also covered for the duration of the MINI’s warranty.

As in most things audio, the final result is very subjective. Some will love this system, some will hate it. You’ll want to go down to a MINI dealer with your favorite disks in your hand and ask to spend an hour with a Harmon Kardon-equipped car to find out. You can listen with the car turned off, but the system will automatically shut down every twenty minutes. Just turn it back on. Bon appetite’!



Point Source modes with “Driver” feature available:
Name Sound Notes
H/K MINI Gentle Hollywood Curve Rear speakers used as subs
Electronic Generous Hollywood Curve Rear speakers used as subs
Instrumental Flat response Rear speakers used as subs
Diffuse modes:
Name Sound Notes
Spacial Gentle Hollywood Curve EQ and slight delay (?) to rear
Festival Gentle Hollywood Curve Delays in front and reverb to the reat


Review by: Bob Womack AKA 2nd Mini on the MINI2 forums.

 

Motor On,

Thanks. I have read that article. This is were I came to believe that something is wrong with mine. You seem happy with yours, right ?

I was wondering then if you could repeat my experiment, please. With the mode set to "H/K Mini", try putting the fader all the way to the rear. I am no audiophile or cerified installer, but, it would seem to me that what I would should hear should be almost exclusively lowend, if in fact the back speakers are acting as subs. All the high's should be filtered by the crossover and all that should be left are the low's, I would think.

What I here is a very faint representation of the whole range of the song, with the obvious deletion of any lowend. Not what I would expect from a sub, but like I said, I am no expert.

The gentlemen who wrote that article should be praised for his contribution, but he is Not Mini USA nor is he Harmon Kardon, so I can't hold Mini to his impressions or his opinion.

If another H/K owner observes behaivour different from mine however, than I know something is wrong. My salesman, as nice as he is, knows as much as I do, only what he learned from that article on mini2. So the quest continues. If anyone could verify that nearly no sound is being sent to the rears when conduction my little experiment, that would be a big help, since the dealer nearly never has a H/K to compare mine too. Thanks.......