We have been having a bit of design discussion over in off topic about the new BMW 5 series. That got me thinking about what I'd like to see in the next generation Cooper and Cooper S and I thought it might be interesting to see what people thought about it.

Given that it is still a few years away before this new Peugeot engine shows up, what would you like to see happen the MINI Cooper and Cooper S in the next iteration?

I would like to address the following areas (feel free to add more if this isn't sufficient)


Exterior

- Design: I believe Jack Pitney has said that the MINI design will carry on a similar evolution to the 911 in terms of having classic elements carry over from one generation to the next. Any reason that shouldn't happen?

- Size: should the MINI get larger, stay the same, or become smaller (i.e more mini).

Interior

- Design: should the art deco interior trend continue to the MINI 2.0? Or should MINI offer a more traditional interior for the MINI?

- Materials: does MINI need to upgrade the quality of the interior materials or are they sufficient for the car.

Performance

- Engine: how much power should the Cooper have?
- Engine: how much power should the Cooper S have?

Options

- What additional options would you like to see?

Price

- Based on the changes you would like to see, what adjustment do you think is appropriate to the base price of the car?

Dave

 

Good post Dave. I'll have to respond this evening when I have more time. BTW I've got a lot of info on the next gen MINI on my site - it may be worthwhile checking it out before posting to see what direction BMW/MINI is taking the car.

bridger.us/mini

 

>>Exterior
>>- Size: should the MINI get larger, stay the same, or become smaller (i.e more mini).

Personally, I would like to see the MINI either stay the same, or possibly get a little SMALLER in the next generation.


>>Interior
>>
>>- Design: should the art deco interior trend continue to the MINI 2.0? Or should MINI offer a more traditional interior for the MINI?

Personally, I think the art deco interior should continue, but AS AN OPTION it would be nice to select a more traditional interior (dash / door panel layout)


>>- Materials: does MINI need to upgrade the quality of the interior materials or are they sufficient for the car.

The coatings on the interior plasics need some work for improved durability and MINI needs to work on reducing the number of rattles.

>>Performance
>>
>>- Engine: how much power should the Cooper have?
>>- Engine: how much power should the Cooper S have?

COOPER: 130-140 hp
COOPER S: 200-220 hp and a factory tuning option to 250

>>Options
>>
>>- What additional options would you like to see?

All Wheel Drive on the Cooper S would be a nice option, especially for putting down more power. Also, having the MINI with an AWD option would be a nice way to re-enter Rally for MINI.


>>Price
>>
>>- Based on the changes you would like to see, what adjustment do you think is appropriate to the base price of the car?


Cooper: base price should be kept under $18000 ( in 2005/2006 $ )
Cooper S: base price should be kept under $22000 ( in 2005/2006 $ )
Cooper S AWD: base price should be kept under $27000 ( in 2005/2006 $ )

My $0.019874566 ( in 2005/2006 $ )

 

Size:
Please please please, BMW, do not go down the road you've taken with the 3, 5, and 7-series, and make each successive version of the car a few inches longer, wider, and taller! The MINI is not like other cars, where you keep your demographic by fattening up the car with each new version. We drive it BECAUSE it's small and sporty. I don't WANT a car the size of an RSX or a Golf!

Power:
Remember that the origin of the Mini was as an efficient form of transport. I'd be surprised if the next S didn't have at least 20-30 more hp, but I honestly hope they don't beef up the power on the Cooper very much, unless they compensate with a more efficient engine. 115 hp really is plenty, in my opinion.
_________________

 

Dropping the roof line an inch or two or three would give the car a more classic look...it's too tall for my tastes now. I realize that there are tall motorers out there and my apologies to them, but I generally sit lower in the seat and there is a good 6 to 8 inches between my balding head and the roof...

DiD covered the other generalities and improvements that shouldn't add too much to the price of the car...and keep in mind...size does matter...it's a MINI!

 

There is not much I think they should change. But I would really like to see more adjustability in the driver's seat. Lumbar and seat bottom inclination are my two biggest complaints. Also, a telescoping steering wheel would be nice.
Keeping with the heritage of the originals. I think they should follow a more "form follows function" criteria. I think that some of the more visually pleasing attributes of the interior really hinder their functionality. The armrests on the doors look cool, but they are useless. Also, I find the turnsignal/windshieldwiper stalks are too oddly shaped for practical use. I often fumble with the high beams when oncoming cars approach. Finally, the windshieldwiper stalk seem to get in the way when I reach for the key to turn the engine off. I bump into it a lot and accidently turn on the wipers.
(hmm, much of this makes me sound clumsy)
But, I still love my car.

oh yeah, one last thing. Speaking of the highbeams. I prefer the switch to be push for higbeams, pull for lowbeams. Not pull for switching between the two. (I hope that makes sense) Just my preference.

 

>>Exterior
>>
>>- Design: I believe Jack Pitney has said that the MINI design will carry on a similar evolution to the 911 in terms of having classic elements carry over from one generation to the next. Any reason that shouldn't happen?
>>

The 911 evolution is a good model to follow. I can't think of a better one off the top of my head.

>>- Size: should the MINI get larger, stay the same, or become smaller (i.e more mini).
>>

It definitely shouldn't get any wider. I'd prefer it not get longer, but I also want a little more rear leg room.

>>Interior
>>
>>- Design: should the art deco interior trend continue to the MINI 2.0? Or should MINI offer a more traditional interior for the MINI?
>>

I think the design is good, but tweaking is fine by me.

>>- Materials: does MINI need to upgrade the quality of the interior materials or are they sufficient for the car.
>>

I definitely would like an upgrade here. That may be the key to reducing internal rattles.

>>Performance
I would like to see an increase, but not a large one (in the neighborhood of 10%) and not at the cost of having the powerband at higher RPMs. My S starts to show it's personality around 3K on the tac and I think that's right. My mom's Prelude doesn't show it's stuff until around 5.5K and that's unacceptable to me.


>>- Engine: how much power should the Cooper have?

Between 120-130 BHp.

>>- Engine: how much power should the Cooper S have?

A nice, even 180 BHp. The 163 it has now felt fantastic when I've had the car at sea level, so I'm not looking for much more.


>>Options
>>
>>- What additional options would you like to see?

Can't think of anything that's not available that I'd actually use.


>>Price
>>
>>- Based on the changes you would like to see, what adjustment do you think is appropriate to the base price of the car?

The base price should stay about where it is, if possible. $1000 more, tops.

 

Here is my 2-cents:

Exterior should remain mostly unchanged, and I agree than an evolution of design along the lines of the 911 is a good path to take. A windshield that does not need replacing more often than the oil needs changing would be a plus!

Interior: I would prefer a bit more of a classic look. The current interior design is a bit over the top for my taste, but I still like it. I would like to see higher quality leather available and also would like the interior to be a little less "plasticky".

Performance: I would really love an AWD version as well as more power for the "S". An engine with similar power and tunability of the Audi/VW 1.8 turbo would make me very happy. It does not have to be a 1/4 mile racer, but I would like to see 200-250hp available without sacrificing handling characteristics in the twisties.

Options: Electrically adjustable seating and additional 12V power outlets.

Price: keep it affordable at the base level, but I would be willing to pay $30k for an AWD 220 hp MCS.

 

Exterior

Design:
Keep it very similar. I agree with 911.

Size:
It should only get bigger if they add a few inches to the rear leg room. It would be nice and convenient to carry 4 adults. Otherwise it doesn't need to be any bigger.


b]Interior[/b]

Design -

I personally love the design. I wouldn't touch it but like was said above, tweaking is fine.

Materials:

The quality of materials seems fine to me although I do not have any rattles or peeling trim pieces either. I assume if I did, I would want them to "
clean it up".


Performance

Engine: how much power should the Cooper have?

Honestly, I think the Cooper should stay as a convenient, good looking, fuel efficient car. I think it could use a boost - maybe 130-135HP.


Engine: how much power should the Cooper S have?

Being realistic, I don't see the Cooper S having a whole lot of horses if half the Coopers are going to be the S. I believe BMW underestimated how many S's they were going to sell and might have increased its price more than the $3000 markup over the Cooper. Considering this, I'd say the Cooper S ahould have between 180-185HP and a FACTORY TUNED WORKS model should have 220-225HP.


Options

What additional options would you like to see?

I'll have to come back to this one. I wanted the Harmon Kardon stereo which wasn't available when I ordered and a full toggle with the rear fog light which is now available. I think an aux port should be standard.

b]Price[/b]

Based on the changes you would like to see, what adjustment do you think is appropriate to the base price of the car?

Cooper 135HP $18k
Cooper S 185HP $21k
JCW 225HP $24k
All available from the factory so there is no $1500 for installation and it would be factory and mass-produced.

Dave mentioned an AWD for under $27k. That might not be a bad marketing idea. It really bridges the gap between MINI and BMW and a lot of people have been asking for AWD.

 

Ver 2.0

Drop roof line by 3"

Increase windshield rake accordingly

Cut 4" from behind front seats

Eliminate Rear seats (2-seater all the way)

Keep Supercharger, but increase capacity to 2.2 ltrs, 5 valves x cyl.

my $0.02

 

I think v2 should come after another 40 years. Maybe when some company we haven't heard of yet buys BMW, parts it, but keeps the Mini/MINI names.

v2 would no longer be MINI, but M!N! I'd start m!n!3.com

_________________
-goin440 IB/IB MC on 17" Volks

 

Generally, I would be in favor of little if any change.

EXTERIOR - Horrors! - do not add one inch to any dimension. The present design is its very best feature. It's the major reason I bought mine. Why change anything? Why get bigger and boring like the rest of them?

INTERIOR - (1) I agree with the poster who wanted better armrests. Really needed. (2) Redesign the rear view mirror to yield a wider viewing surface, and perhaps add a few square inches more of viewing surface to the outside mirrors. A more comfortable and safe driving venture will result.

PERFORMANCE - plenty good now. Keep it near the same for both models. Let the drivers who race put in their mods for peak performance and don't forget, most of us get our fun in A to B trips.

OPTIONS and COST - two of the options are excessively high - the leather seats and the GPS navigational units. GPS units will be going (down in cost) the way of personal computers and digital cameras. Mini should get a good vendor who can supply a GPS at a copetitive price with the market, and with all the bells and whistles. Right now my GPS will be an after market unit.

My 2 cents,

John

 

Great idea for a post Dave!!!!

My thoughts:

>>Exterior

I'd say very few changes needed. The current shape is fabulous, a very gradual evolution would be much better IMHO than anything radical.

Size:
I think it's near perfect right now. For a 4-door version, a slightly stretched MINI might be better, the same applies to a pickup-bed MINI or a wagon MINI, both of which may be useful version to introduce, esp. the wagon one.
One consideration that may be worth while would be to have an ever so slightly stretched 4 door version, and then keep the 2 door one as short as it is, but introduce the option of having it as a 2-seater.

>>Interior
I like the current interior design quite a bit, but the quality of the interior MUST improve, as that is one of the weakest parts of the current MINI: better feeling textures, better plastics, and most of all better fit and finish (peeling trim paint, etc..) and not the myriad of squeaks and rattles so many MINIs have right now.
I'd vote against a traditional interior. More color choices would be great!

>>Performance
I am happy with the current choices in performance of Cooper and Cooper S.
I'd like to see THREE additional versions in US, on top of the ones currently available here:
1) the MINI One D as currently available in Europe.
2) a second Diesel version that has more performance that the current European MINI One D, but still better mileage than the Cooper. One that has the performance of the Cooper, but mileage in the mid-40's (mpg)
3) A super Works car, maybe around 220-235 hp.

I'd say stick to supercharged engine (not turbo please), but maybe up size to 1.8 L (I'd say not any larger than 1.. Up the rev limit a bit to at least 7k rpm. Ideally I'd like to see an engine with a 7.5k rpm limit.


>>Options

see my notes on engine above.
Give us a decent windshield, please!
As much as I support the whole idea and safety of runflats, I don't like mine any more, the ride is just too bad on our substandard US roads. I'd say have at least the option of a space saver spare tire on all MINI versions, for those who do not want to drive on runflats.

>>Price
Price should stay as is, it's a good compromise.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot to add...

Instead of wheels the M!N! now hovers. v2 would be Jetsons' meet Back to the Future (hover boards yo)

Interior: The center mount speedo turns into holographic projection. Standard is the MFSW, optional is the HFSW (hella functional). Seats are actutally comfortable. No doors, but you get to tap your chest and say "Beam me in Scotty." Added to the toggles are VHC (variable hover control).

Performance: The outdated Peugot engine gets replaced by ole Luke's ion drive. The "S" comes with R3D3 (starwars reference). JCW adds C4-PO.
-------------------
In all seriousness, I hope its quite a while before we see a redesign v2.


_________________
-goin440 IB/IB MC on 17" Volks

 

BTW here's that thread from my site about this topic. It's from early July this past summer but I think it's still a good read. http://www.bridger.us/mini/?Y=2003&M...eID=TheMINIR56

 

Exterior

- Design: Basic design should remain as is. Though small changes could be made to distinquish year models (every 3 yrs. or so)

- Size: should the MINI get larger, stay the same, or become smaller (i.e more mini). No larger than it is now. I'd say slightly smaller, but I don't think it would be viable with all the required safety equipment. The shedding of 300 to 400 lbs would be nice, but the above reasoning applies here too.

Interior

- Design: should the art deco interior trend continue to the MINI 2.0? Or should MINI offer a more traditional interior for the MINI? I've no problem with the current design. Ergonomics are great. After 7 months of ownership every control is easy to pinpoint and operate. The armrests would be better if they protruded more, but it would also increase the chance of injury on a side impact. Talk about trivial, the only thing I keep wishing for is a stronger spring on the headlight switch. I keep inadvertantly flashing people when I operate the turn signals.

- Materials: does MINI need to upgrade the quality of the interior materials or are they sufficient for the car. Better materials would be nice. I'm old school. I like the use of metals instead of plastics. The 2 drawbacks are weight and price. Plastic wins both categories (less weight and price)

Performance

- Engine: how much power should the Cooper have?115 to 125 bhp should be sufficient. It is after all, the economy model.

- Engine: how much power should the Cooper S have? 180 to 200 bhp.

Options

- What additional options would you like to see? A competively priced 240hp JCW kit that's factory installed and includes an LSD and larger brakes. Also a less restrictive ordering system. Any color or option should be orderable on any model. And lastly, though, I'd never by one, bring the MINI-D into the country.

Price I think MINI would be hard pressed to offer many improvements to the current base models without a price increase. It's a very competitive price for what's offered. Staying under the magical 20k mark is almost essential, especially in light of the competition being introduced in this market. Right now there are cars out there in the same range that are faster, or have nicer interiors, but none of them offer the total package that a MINI offers. Improved quality control would be the biggest improvement that MINI could offer with little or no increase in cost.

Lastly, not that I really care, but someone's going to mention it, BIGGER FRELLING CUPHOLDERS!!

_________________
03 B/W S model; Madness intake; Cibie 45 lamps; Magnaflow exhaust; H&R springs; Helix swaybar

 

sorry, double post

 

Exterior

It's darn near perfect.

Maybe replace the black plastic wheel flares with painted wheel flares or at least offer that as an option.

Add some new wheel designs. Coming up with a slick way to carry a lightweight spare tire for the S would be nice.

Removable rear sunroof panel.

The rear end of the MINI could probably be improved in some way. It's presently the least attractive element of the design. I have no idea how they'd improve it, though.


Interior
I like the funky interior, though many non-MINI owners don't seem to like it. I agree that the door arm rests need improvement. I'd like to see a nice arm rest as an option for the center console, as well.

I'd like very much to have about 2 to 3 more inches of foot well room toward the right (in left-hand drive cars). I find the foot well just a tad cramped and my leg often pressing against the downtube.

A seat extension like on BMW's would be great for longer-legged drivers/passengers.

Definitely improve the interior painted surfaces and put an extra yard of felt in the car to kill ALL of the rattles. :smile:

Add water temp, oil pressure guages...maybe even boost for the S.

The glovebox should have something like the aftermarket organizer built in.

Add 5's tick marks on the speedometer...as in 35, 45, 55.

Do something with the steering wheel emblem over the airbag. It's much too fragile. I rarely use my horn, but when I do, I habitually go for the center of the steering wheel, not two little buttons.

Put in a full set of toggles (if they are kept) regardless what options are ordered. Missing toggles is no good visually.

Add criss-cross (don't know the tech name for it) stitching on the leather steering wheel like BMW's have. It's more durable than the single stiching the MINI's have.

Improve the air conditioner outlets to reduce wind noise...while you're at it, improve the AC a tad. It should blow one's hair with noise levels under 80 decibels.


Performance
I'd like to see a little more low-end torque/power. I'd like to see the Getrag transmission modified to eliminate the 1st to 2nd gear clank. Otherwise, I think it's great.

Of course, have to say it, NO STUMBLE -- NO YO-YO. No weird engine mgmt issues.

I'd love to see a real BMW engine in the MINI, but I doubt that will ever happen.


Options

Good hands-free cell phone integration with stereo.

One-touch UP windows (add the sensor to prevent squished fingers/heads).

Locking glovebox and locking hidden storage area in boot.

Garage door opener.

Infrared windshield with heads up display. (OK, just kidding)

Price
+$1000 max for what I've listed without the BMW engine.

 

>>- Size: should the MINI get larger, stay the same, or become smaller (i.e more mini). No larger than it is now. I'd say slightly smaller, but I don't think it would be viable with all the required safety equipment. The shedding of 300 to 400 lbs would be nice, but the above reasoning applies here too.
>>
YES YES YES! Try and find a way to maintain the safety features and lose some weight. I forgot all about that.

 

Carbon fiber backed bucket seats clad in tan italian leather.
Wait... this isn't the Ferrari thread.

But a bare metal shifter gate would be wicked cool.

_________________
-goin440 IB/IB MC on 17" Volks

 

Exterior

The MINI is the maximum size I find acceptable and still be called a MINI, V2.0 needs to be a few inches shorter especially.

Interior

I love the Art Deco/Industrial styling, however a more simple, more minimal interior like the Mini would be appropriate too.

Performance

Since the next gen MINI should be a bit smaller, a few hundred pounds lighter, the horsepower should remain almost the same. Cooper get's 120HP with similar curves, and the Cooper S get's 175HP, and the MCS JCW get's 208HP with tons more torque. Oh yea, I want Bosch to do the next ECU!!

The Suspension will remain similar, however progressive rate springs will be standard on both SS and SS+, with SS having a 18mm rear swaybar and SS+ having a 20mm rear swaybar.

Options

Toss the PDC, it's virutally pointless on the nations shortest hatchback! Other than that, I'd love to see a ROUND screen for the NAV

Price

Of course, the price should only adjust according to the market

That's my take,
Ryan

 

Hopefully MINI has already figured out that MINI owners want to see the car stay mini.

 

here's my thoughts on what would make the exterior of the MINI even better.

The car is much too tall. Shorten the cabin height. The seats could become more recessed into the floor to allow six inches of roof drop. Ever pulled alongside an older Honda car? Notice how much shorter those cars are and yet they're still roomy inside? The MINI could be the same!

More vertical cabin lines from the rear. Look at the new MINI and the classic Mini. I'd love to see the side cabin walls more vertical than leaning in as they are currently.

The front and rear bumpers should not "round under" as much. Take a look at front and rear profiles of the MINI. Those bumpers should be more vertical.

Make the boot have a tail-gate much like some of the originals had. Still can have the top part lift up to open.

 

Great thread idea!

>>- Exterior:
>>- Design:

I like the gradual evolution idea and definitely prefer the 911 approach to that of the Thunderbird, for example. With the 911, you can still see the relationship not only to its recent predecessors but to its very early ancestors. The Thunderbird changed a bit every year or so as well but unfortunately by the time Ford dropped it there wasn't the slightest resemblance to the excellent original design.

>>- Size:

First and foremost NO BIGGER! If there have to be 4-doors, pickups, etc, that force extra external dimension, leave the original model (original MINI model, that is) the same. Don't change the width, length or height one jot please. If the height must be lowered (the only dimension mod I think I wouldn't complain about), keep the change minimal and compensate somehow to ensure no loss of interior headroom.

>>- Interior:
>>- Design:

I generally like the style of the interior - except for all the cheap looking shiny plastic surfaces - and the ergonomics are great. Given the sporty nature of the car (and the spirited driving it inspires in some of us), it seems reasonable to offer at least one more seating option with more/better support, lumbar adjustability, etc, and not just for the leather seats. Also, for many of us the rear seat is just something other people use that we might remove later....how 'bout a 2-seater option in the same body style? Readjust (stretch?) the interior just a bit in the 2-seater to take advantage of the extra room. I'd also like to see airflow improved and made a lot quieter.

>>- Materials:

See above....cheap looking shiny plastic surfaces. Add a more cloth seat color options.

>>- Performance:
>>- Engine: how much power should the Cooper have?
Well, since the MINI One is the econo version, the Cooper should bump up a bit, but only around 15%....maybe 135. More important than the peak hp though is raising the entire curve-torque as well-especially at the lower end.

>>- Engine: how much power should the Cooper S have?
I'm one of those heretics that believes performance isn't all about power. I think the S needs a bit more though, make it 180-185, and add an LSD option.

>>- Options: What additional options would you like to see?
One touch UP window controls.

>>- Price: Based on the changes you would like to see, what adjustment do you think is appropriate to the base price of the car?
Very few of these things should add to production costs, with the obvious exception of power train improvements. The rest should be no-cost changes or charges for options rather than base price changes.
Cooper <17K
Cooper S <21K

 

It's really interesting to read through all of these. People seem to have a lot of common thoughts, especially related to the size and design of the exterior. Here's to hoping MINI has an appreciation for these factors already.