R50/53 SRT-4 engine swap into MINI?
Thats what im tryin to find out... if its cost effective...
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Brand New, French made 1.6l twin scroll turbocharged engine with DOHC, VANOS Variable Valve control, on-demand oil pump, ac, basically everything on the accessary belt being on-demand, etc.
Which do you think is cheaper to buy on the open market?
#1 is probably about $3-$6k sourced out of a wrecked car or something.
#2 probably costs about $10-$12k to buy new (Doubt there are many wrecked 07-08 MINI's yet)
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
Why would someone want 400whp in a mini anyway?
1st gear: wheelspin
2nd gear: wheelspin
3rd gear: wheelspin
4th gear: chirp
Ya you can use "throttle control" but come on, whats the point in having that power if you can't floor it!
1st gear: wheelspin
2nd gear: wheelspin
3rd gear: wheelspin
4th gear: chirp
Ya you can use "throttle control" but come on, whats the point in having that power if you can't floor it!
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
A lot of us have MINI's with 250+ whp and have no issues with wheelspin. Lets just say Runflats aren't really the best choice of tires, and you need to have a *real* suspension on your car, not just springs and a strut bar.
It's perfectly drivable. I don't get wheelspin putting down the throttle in any gear, and like most cars with HP/Weight ratios under 10, you don't just drop the clutch at 5k RPM's to take off
.
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
Do you really need to see "The Video"?
A lot of us have MINI's with 250+ whp and have no issues with wheelspin. Lets just say Runflats aren't really the best choice of tires, and you need to have a *real* suspension on your car, not just springs and a strut bar.
It's perfectly drivable. I don't get wheelspin putting down the throttle in any gear, and like most cars with HP/Weight ratios under 10, you don't just drop the clutch at 5k RPM's to take off.
A lot of us have MINI's with 250+ whp and have no issues with wheelspin. Lets just say Runflats aren't really the best choice of tires, and you need to have a *real* suspension on your car, not just springs and a strut bar.
It's perfectly drivable. I don't get wheelspin putting down the throttle in any gear, and like most cars with HP/Weight ratios under 10, you don't just drop the clutch at 5k RPM's to take off
.EDIT: ok i just watched the video. That MINI is sweet. In the beginning credits it says 400hp, but throughout the video he keeps saying 300. What is the actual whp of the car? I'll assume its 300. Wow, I never would've thought that more than 250whp would have been usable. Thanks for the learnin.
Last edited by theWING; May 1, 2008 at 11:50 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
Tuls would beg to differ that 400whp "Not very usable". As would Brian, Jan, Hubie, and the rest of the bunch that have built 400+ whp cars over the last 3-4 years despite how "Impossible" it is to put any power down with them.
A set of 225 width Max Performance summer tires and a set of stiff coilovers are about all you need to ensure power delivery to the ground. It's been done, many times over (Jan's dragster puts down 800+ HP with NO2 and weighs about 2k lbs, gets traction just fine).
Check out some old threads, browse youtube, there's plenty of content out there for street driven MINI's with 400+ whp.
Response to Edit:
Tuls (Blue MINI) is around 400 whp (Custom Twincharge w/Front Mount IC and tons more)
The other driver (yellow MINI, forget his name) is around 300 whp (SPi Twincharge kit)
Last edited by Guest; May 1, 2008 at 11:54 AM. Reason: Unable to properly type out emotes -_-
2nd Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
From: Knoxville, TN
Tuls would beg to differ that 400whp "Not very usable". As would Brian, Jan, Hubie, and the rest of the bunch that have built 400+ whp cars over the last 3-4 years despite how "Impossible" it is to put any power down with them.
A set of 225 width Max Performance summer tires and a set of stiff coilovers are about all you need to ensure power delivery to the ground. It's been done, many times over (Jan's dragster puts down 800+ HP with NO2 and weighs about 2k lbs, gets traction just fine).
Check out some old threads, browse youtube, there's plenty of content out there for street driven MINI's with 400+ whp.
A set of 225 width Max Performance summer tires and a set of stiff coilovers are about all you need to ensure power delivery to the ground. It's been done, many times over (Jan's dragster puts down 800+ HP with NO2 and weighs about 2k lbs, gets traction just fine).
Check out some old threads, browse youtube, there's plenty of content out there for street driven MINI's with 400+ whp
.
3rd Gear
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Peoria IL
yeah my DA Integra w/ a fully built turbo motor puts down 386 and it's rediculous trying to get traction. I still think it would be sweet to put the 2nd gen Mini motor in though simply to keep everything within the same product line. I know the cost would be up there but hey it would be cool too keep it all MINI you know?
I am setting up a budget my own turbo-only build. I know what I am going to be using so I have that covered but to get me started I want to have 300-350whp. Then work up to my ultimate goal of 500+whp and still keep the interior and also be a DD but with the full 500whp at the turn of the boost controller. For daily driving i will have the boost turned down.
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
Ask Tuls about that... and Kalbone as he is well on his way to 400... I believe he's around 330 now...
And as regards this thread... Wow... so much to question and answer...
I myself have looked into this swap just as much if not more than those previous with help of the "big boys" of the community... Jan and Chris worked it out and came to the conclusion its not worth it... As Jan went on to do the stroker and make that power without a swap and so did Chris... and its daily driven to beat the boot
Anything can be done... Its what you want... Not sacrilidge as stated... Its called innovation... And a member in Colorado has already performed a B16 swap so thats do-able for sure! And his is daily driven and passes emissions and everything!
You can pick up a used 2.4 motor and trans for around $3k all day... than you gotta consider wiring, motor and trans mounts, axle position, custom axles which in themselves run around $750-$1100... But it would be awesome! If any are considering doing this, SERIOUSLY considering doing this... Best of luck and yes, keep us all updated and a plethora of pictures!!!
And as regards this thread... Wow... so much to question and answer...
I myself have looked into this swap just as much if not more than those previous with help of the "big boys" of the community... Jan and Chris worked it out and came to the conclusion its not worth it... As Jan went on to do the stroker and make that power without a swap and so did Chris... and its daily driven to beat the boot
Anything can be done... Its what you want... Not sacrilidge as stated... Its called innovation... And a member in Colorado has already performed a B16 swap so thats do-able for sure! And his is daily driven and passes emissions and everything!
You can pick up a used 2.4 motor and trans for around $3k all day... than you gotta consider wiring, motor and trans mounts, axle position, custom axles which in themselves run around $750-$1100... But it would be awesome! If any are considering doing this, SERIOUSLY considering doing this... Best of luck and yes, keep us all updated and a plethora of pictures!!!
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
Let's see what someone can come up with...
We know the block are not the same or interchangable... Just made by the same manufacturer...
What about the wiring?? Is it as simple as just hooking up sensors and getting a signal? Who here can shed light on the wiring and onboard computers of the Mini?
Can i maintain its functionality or will it be a straight drag car with all custom wired gauges and an AEM??
We know the block are not the same or interchangable... Just made by the same manufacturer...
What about the wiring?? Is it as simple as just hooking up sensors and getting a signal? Who here can shed light on the wiring and onboard computers of the Mini?
Can i maintain its functionality or will it be a straight drag car with all custom wired gauges and an AEM??
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
The Yellow Mini and fellow speaking is 300...
The blue beast filming and flying by it Tuls car... currently 420 to the front wheels...
Any questions? Haha...
Im sure he'll be more than happy to attest to drivability...
The blue beast filming and flying by it Tuls car... currently 420 to the front wheels...
Any questions? Haha...
Im sure he'll be more than happy to attest to drivability...
EDIT: ok i just watched the video. That MINI is sweet. In the beginning credits it says 400hp, but throughout the video he keeps saying 300. What is the actual whp of the car? I'll assume its 300. Wow, I never would've thought that more than 250whp would have been usable. Thanks for the learnin.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,902
Likes: 2
From: SoCaL (Agoura Hills)
I am setting up a budget my own turbo-only build. I know what I am going to be using so I have that covered but to get me started I want to have 300-350whp. Then work up to my ultimate goal of 500+whp and still keep the interior and also be a DD but with the full 500whp at the turn of the boost controller. For daily driving i will have the boost turned down.
Neutral
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
i happen to have a heavily modified 2gn neon (non-srt). my wife has an 05 mini (non-s) and i'm amazed at how similar things are under the hood. same coil pack, same engine torque mounts, etc. it is true that the euro neon had the same motor as the 1gn mini so it stands to reason that they would swap. the tranny in the neon is the same b/w us and euro neons so again it stands to reason that the larger pl motors would bolt up to the getrag in a mini. the srt-4 motor is merely a longer stroked version, so it should fit as well. the only problem that i see is the deck height. i believe you'll run into significant clearance issues with the srt block hitting the hood. what i've not understood is why someone hasn't put a dohc head 2.0 motor in a mini. sure it will take some fabricating, but it should bolt up to the tranny and fit without clearance issues. there are many 2.0 dohc n/a neons making 210hp at the wheels. just a thought.
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
You will need to clearance the hood 1inch or lower the motor 1inch and sacrifice that to speed bumps...
So just swap the head? this would work out you think? how much is the estimated cost? sounds interesting! If the motor swapped straight up id buy it instead of twincharging!
i happen to have a heavily modified 2gn neon (non-srt). my wife has an 05 mini (non-s) and i'm amazed at how similar things are under the hood. same coil pack, same engine torque mounts, etc. it is true that the euro neon had the same motor as the 1gn mini so it stands to reason that they would swap. the tranny in the neon is the same b/w us and euro neons so again it stands to reason that the larger pl motors would bolt up to the getrag in a mini. the srt-4 motor is merely a longer stroked version, so it should fit as well. the only problem that i see is the deck height. i believe you'll run into significant clearance issues with the srt block hitting the hood. what i've not understood is why someone hasn't put a dohc head 2.0 motor in a mini. sure it will take some fabricating, but it should bolt up to the tranny and fit without clearance issues. there are many 2.0 dohc n/a neons making 210hp at the wheels. just a thought.
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
It dosnt... thats why no one has done it... and the neon head dosnt bolt on either... not without a major adaptor! Just buy Jans "Jeses" head!!
Neutral
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
i don't know whether or not the head's would swap onto a 1.6. but, the dohc heads from neons are interchangeable with the sohc on 2.0 blocks. there would obviously be some fabricating needed to ensure the 2.0 fit, but think about it, 1.6 to 2.0 is a 20% increase in displacement. the stock dohc neon 2.0 made 150hp. with basic port work, a decent intake, cams and header the motors routinely make 180+hp. if you're looking to make big power n/a it's a good option. the reason the neons were so popular in scca racing was b/c 1. they handle well 2. they made a lot more hp than other similar class cars ie: civic, mazda, etc. i'd also like to quote an article from allpar.com just to defend the viability, performance and overall value of the lowly neon.
Tommy Boy wrote this encouraging news: "I'd like to point your attention to the May 2002 issue of Grassroots Motorsports. This was no highbrow, stuffy whine-fest... they [took] 7 'pocket rockets under $20,000' to the local autocross to see how they matched up. While they were there, they put each car on a chassis dyno and also measured 0-60 times. The cars included 2002 versions of the Mazda MP3, VW Golf GTI turbo, Nissan Sentra SE-R, Focus SVT, Civic Si, Hyundai Tiburon V6, and the Neon ACR. ... When all was said and done, the Neon finished mid-pack in 0-60 (7.9 seconds). But on the road course the Neon spanked the others like a cruel stepmother. It finshed the course at least 1.5 seconds ahead of the Focus, and 2 or 3 seconds ahead of everything else. They loved the handling, saying if I remember, that with the car dialed in right (bear in mind it has adjustable suspension pieces from the factory) it had as close to perfect handling as it gets in this class. They found some complaint with every other car in the test, concerning handling. All this, gents, and it was easily the cheapest car in the test to boot!"
"BMG" noted that Motor Trend ran a 2000 Neon ES in the slalom at 64.9 mph... Considering a Neon ES is only riding on 15 inch Goodyears, that's impressive. The Neon ES beat the AWD Suburu Impreza WRX -- which only managed a 61.4 MPH slalom! The Neon ES was also faster than a Pontiac Trams Am WS6 which only managed 64.6 MPH! (We suspect the Impreza out-accelerated the Neon, but since Neons start at $11,000 and the WRX is in the $20s, that's okay, right?)
"BMG" noted that Motor Trend ran a 2000 Neon ES in the slalom at 64.9 mph... Considering a Neon ES is only riding on 15 inch Goodyears, that's impressive. The Neon ES beat the AWD Suburu Impreza WRX -- which only managed a 61.4 MPH slalom! The Neon ES was also faster than a Pontiac Trams Am WS6 which only managed 64.6 MPH! (We suspect the Impreza out-accelerated the Neon, but since Neons start at $11,000 and the WRX is in the $20s, that's okay, right?)
Last edited by sgt brad; May 14, 2008 at 06:41 AM. Reason: an addition
5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
I don't see anything on there about a Mini Cooper... I think you joined the wront board there buddy.... nobodies knockin the performance of the Neon engine obviously. But if your gonna start comparing handling on this, maybe you should find the article that talks about the Mini S beating not just the SRT4, but the STi, the Evo, the Viper, the Porshe, the Ferrari, all in handling thru the sloalom... This thread refers to a motor swap into the Mini as it is a Mini Forum... Yes? Let's keep articles about a neon on the neon forum... Shall we...
Neutral
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
I don't see anything on there about a Mini Cooper... I think you joined the wront board there buddy.... nobodies knockin the performance of the Neon engine obviously. But if your gonna start comparing handling on this, maybe you should find the article that talks about the Mini S beating not just the SRT4, but the STi, the Evo, the Viper, the Porshe, the Ferrari, all in handling thru the sloalom... This thread refers to a motor swap into the Mini as it is a Mini Forum... Yes? Let's keep articles about a neon on the neon forum... Shall we...
