Thanks for the link. In all honesty, I haven't researched it much, since it'll be a while until I would convert -- but it's good to know that some are already testing the waters, and I'm sure that there'll be more options when, and if, I do make the R57 leap.

 

Thanks for saying so..

These are Outmotoring's gauge faces in dark gray - the idiot lights are stealthed in this design on both the speedo and the tachj, making them VERY clean-looking. He has several colors as well as a silver/black Union jack and (I think) checks. I have a How-to for the installation (which is about a 4/10 difficulty IMHO) HERE.

 

Contrary to some peoples opinion... there really is a steep downward trend in R56 sales in the US market. BMW is surely puzzled (to put it nicely...) with this phenomenon, and must be actively seeking to understand how this has occurred. The trend of R56 owners moving back to the R53 must also be startling to BMW... it is a huge abnormality, even with the relatively small numbers we are experiencing.

BMW took a huge gamble bringing the MINI brand to market. And they are surely watching the R56 sales saga very closely, especially given the absolutely phenomenal success of the original R50-53 series. Going out to social sites like this one and others... BMW marketing will be attempting to discover the "mood" of their audience, in an attempt to understand exactly what has occurred to their US market to cause the erosion of the R56 sales position. Conversations like the ones in this thread will assist BMW in understanding where they went wrong with the R56... and corrections will be made. BMW is not going to let the MINI brand dissolve away... we will see changes, not in the R56, but in the follow on release.

The electronic social media... it is a huge market driver... this thread is likely printed out and hanging on some BMW market managers wall as I type this... it's just how it works in this day and age...

 

I am not being rude, but could you tell me what your sources are for this statement? I would really like to know more about that and perhaps read it for myself if available.

 

According to this article sales are up in 2007. (Doesnt break out US Sales.)

MINI also recorded a robust rise - in comparison with the previous year (188,077), the brand increased by 18.5% to 222,875 units sold to customers.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/01/...s-up-for-2007/

Also sales are up by 20% in the US this January compared to last January.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2008/02/...0-for-january/

I couldn't find any R56 numbers but I am sure they are out there.

 

Me too - I hope this is not the case, actually... As much as I prefer the R52, I'd still like to see MORE MINI people on the roads. I guess all we can do is what we've BEEN doing: wave to other MINI drivers, drive with a big grin on our faces, always be courteous to other drivers and, above all, whenever someone asks you "What kind of car is that?" say, with a mischevious grin:

"Why, it's a MINI - the best damn car ever built. Wanna know more?"

 

US sales for the R56 have nose dived... with January 2008 sales down nearly 25% from the R50-53 era. World wide sales are being carried by the diesel (nearly 1 out of every 4 MINIs sold world wide)...



http://www.gbmini.net/wp/mini_sales/

Sales are only "up" for January 2008 compared to January 2007, due to limited factory output in January 2007. Production was limited by factory retooling between November 2006 through January 2007... with the R56 not fully in the pipeline until mid February 2007. When you compare January 2008 sales (factory in full production) to the other years when the factory was in full production (2003-2006)... the January sales are actually down nearly 25%...

 

I notice that the biggest dramatic sales drop is the convertible. The engine in that thing must be awful.

Seriously though. As I look at the sales figures, I can't conclude that the R56 is the problem. I see that convertible sales have been dropping each year since 2005. The 2007 hardtop sales were up significantly. The only figure showing a dip is January 2008. I think it is perhaps a good guess that sales were down in January and I will guess February as well in anticipation of the Clubman. I know that me for one, I wouldn't buy a MINI in Jan or Feb knowing the Clubman is coming out. Even if I wasn't sure I wanted a Clubman, I would want to at least take a look at it before buying anything.

If you wanted to twist the sales figures to back up an argument for the R53 versus the R56, just look at 2007 sales figures. Convertible sales were down big time and so the R56 carried the brand into overall improved sales figures.

Just like the year they made an automatic available for the R53 and then the year they introduced the convertible, this year I would be surprised if the intro of the Clubman doesn't once again boost overall brand sales for the year. With almost constant lineup intros and changes, I think BMW knows what they are doing as far as sales go. They are in business to sell cars by the way.

 

It could be the Clubman... or it could be the piston slapping Peugeot engine.. or it could simply be demand is down due to the redesign. The only absolute is that the sales are significantly down for January 2008 as compared to the original series. Again... I predict more of the same for February. I will go so far as to predict a significant drop for overall first quarter 2008 sales. IMO, demand for the R56 peaked in 2007... unlike the original series which stayed strong through our its 5 year production run.

 

I would agree with your predictions about the first quarter. But I am thinking by the end of the year, with the Clubman, overall sales will be up. At least they will for the remaining quarters. We`can only wait and see. With no insult intended, I would put my money on BMW over your opinions. Their track record for boosting sales has been very good in recent years.

I feel the need to add that perhaps the 1 series will impact MINI sales. And anticipation of the 1 also could impact MINI first quarter and beyond. Once again, just for me, I want to see and drive the 1 series before I buy another MINI. So this could have a downside impact on MINI sales for this year and the future. I am not sure. Could be just me.

 

I think you should re-think that 25% sales drop figure. Most of the drop is the convertible, not the R56. Jan 2006 hardtop sales were 2,242 versus 2,157 for January 08. That is only about 4%, not 25%. I think your bias is affecting your analysis.

 

i fn hate the new MINIS 07+ theyre bigger and heavier i swear. ugly too.

 

There is one BIG flaw with your analysis of the data from your source....THE R56 WASN'T EVEN SOLD IN JANUARY 2007

If you actually look at your data under 2007 sales, and then look to the far right there is a specific category for R56 Cooper and Cooper S...January has a big gap because they didn't start coming out yet...i think you got your big january R56 nose dive from the numbers for the 2007 R53 sales which were at a nose dive (down to 800s from 1000s)

 

Which is why I removed January 2007 from the averages... it an abnormality... Did you read the complete post where I specifically call this out?

 

Again, some like to focus on one particular month. When the data for the year is examined from the data source, the real drop in sales was in 06 from the 05 model year. 06 sales were down almost every month from 05 indicating stagnation. 07 sales were up from 06 in most months except for the few noted. Selective data mining, again. The exec is probably glad to take down the 06 figures.

 

Focusing on the current sales trend is hardly "selective mining". In a few weeks when the February 2008 sales numbers are published, that will be the focus month. I predict more of the same... downward spiral.

 

Companies also look at the year bottom lines. And the year bottom lines are clear. 06, OMG, we lost ground from 05, wow, good thing we have a refresh coming. 07, whew, glad to see the numbers rebound!

 

Wrong... companies measure quarter to quarter... and we are mid way through first quarter 2008. This is how dividends are paid out... quarterly.

 

And if you are wrong, you will no doubt find yet another reason to blame R56 for some other catastrophe.

Honestly slag, you are too transparent here and this thread has mainly become about giving a platform for your tirade against R56. You want to save R50/53 because you want BMW to hear your plea and return back to a platform more suited to an enthusiast? An ill-motivated scheme in that the Mini is more than a purely enthusiast car...it also has a rightful place as a darn good, well sorted peoples car. R56 is very good at that, and if you like JCW and GP, which apparently is your taste, I suggest you start comparing apples to apples and study the R56 JCW which.....I believe....is strictly targeted at enthusiasts. What a shock as that's the same trajectory the first gen JCW offerings took???

We have presented many, many positive points on R56, established that many hard-core enthusiast really do appreciate the car, and re-explained what MINI rightly did in revising the car. Why all the pro-56 input here in a thread about R50/53??? Because this thread is largely not about enjoying, or appreciating, or saving the first gen car (which I'm fine with)...it's been about trying to field your wild claims...some of which even gbmini (your statistical source) questioned using in the way you are. And in the end...all the pros of R56 that have been articulated, all the attempts to illustrate the rationale behind the car, all the detailed explanations showing that all is well with the MINI.....have been flatly overlooked and ignored (at least by the prime mover here)!!

Therefore.....since this is in the first gen forum (and I respect first gen owners), and since I have more than given sufficient time to this (as the owner of a first and second gen car), and because I can see it apparently will do absolutely no good, I hereby declare it is, for me, a waste of my time.

Have fun in your little playground of delusion.

 

Dude...they're actually lighter. But I'm an R53 fan too.

 

But weight distribution is lower in the original series...

 

In addition to some valid points by Electric Shock regarding sales lag due to the introduction of a new product (and to points made many pages before that US sales may be skewed by other factors such as a crappy economy), I find unconvincing slag's dismissal of the bigger and more relevant data set: worldwide sales.

So what? Is there any showing that the 18+ % increase in 2007 MINI sales was all due to a huge upsurge in 2d gen diesel MINIs? If the petrol R56 were really tanking worldwide, diesel sales would not save it. Afterall, how can we say that worldwide consumers hate the 2d gen petrol MINIs, yet they flock to buy the 2d gen diesel (overlooking the HUGE flaws of the 2d gen) over the many other options available in Europe?

Even if this is true, how does it prove the argument that BMW is, or should be, concerned about sales of the 2d gen MINI?
On the one hand, slag, you argue that BMW has tried to appeal to the masses, but that the numbers clearly show a devastating blow to sales which has BMW execs posting this thread on their walls. On the other hand, when confronted with numbers showing quite the opposite, you write the data off as driven by non-enthusiast diesel drivers. Even if this is true, so what? The data shows that the transition to the 2d gen (whether for diesel, petrol or both) is a sales success for BMW. I don't think BMW is upset that, although sales are up, a lot of those are to non-enthusiasts. I'm pretty sure the conversion rate of the non-enthusiast Euro to the enthusiast Euro is still 1:1.

 

At this point... for me to be wrong... the R56 would have to put together 2 months of back to back sales higher than anytime during the entire MINI 6 year run.... just to salvage 1st quarter sales.

 

Funny how they got plump and lost weight at the same time. Someone needs to tell Jenny Craig about this.

Dean.

 

I presume the following quote is an acknowledgment that the above quote is an overstatement.

Of course as you and I seemed to agree, first quarter sales could be down much as a result of anticipation of the Clubman and then I threw in that the 1 series anticipation and eventual release may also affect MINI sales.

No, but focusing on one month and way overstating the difference as 25% rather than 4% is selective mining and distortion.

2007 R56 sales were up over previous R53 sales figures. Does that count for nothing?

The convertible, which has not yet had its update, is the one that is seeing a downward spiral in sales. 2007 convertible sales were down 20% over 2006 and 34% over 2005. For January 2008 it is down a whopping 57% over January 2006 and down an even bigger 64% over January 2005.

No offense, but I think you have lost some credibility here at least as a data analyst. Painting yourself into a corner on these sales stats isn't going to help. I still maintain that it doesn't mean as much as you think no matter what the numbers are.

But really, I don't understand your logic. At the risk of getting a groan from others, let me help you out a little. If the argument is that BMW ruined the MINI with he R56 by making it more a vehicle for the masses and less a vehicle for the "enthusiast" shouldn't you be showing us how sales of the R56 have increased, not decreased? But of course I suppose that would tend to disprove that the R56 is objectively "fugly" (although that is a subjective not objective characteristic).

I am glad I asked for your sources.