Oh lets not bring up the famous, world class temperature gauges of the 1st gens. Nothing more than an idiot light with a needle

Mark

 

Not true... mine was completely functional...

Here is a posters experience on how his R53 temperature gauge twice prevented serious issues: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...2&postcount=20

I've heard your experience with the temperature gauge... perhaps your failure was catastrophic... your sender unit defective, or MINI made updates in later years.

 

Sorry, means nothing to me what you conjure up, my gauge did NOT function the way I would expect one to. And if it was a fault, well then the perfect 1st gen has one more failure that I don't hold against it, but DOES exist.
Your bias, and your personal opinion mean nothing to me

Mark

 

Greengoblns experience with the functioning gauge is the same as mine. In Greengoblns case, it saved his engine from damage not just once, but twice.

As in Greengoblns case... the gauge is only as effective as the operator who correctly uses it. Proper observation of said gauge is a critical factor... as a gauge is only an indicator of trouble.

Some may prefer the so called "idiot" light... but not me. I understand the principles of a gauge... and the importance of consistent observation and monitoring of said gauges. This usage becomes second nature to the driving enthusiast..

My experience mirrors Greengoblns... the R53 temperature gauge is indeed fully operational...

 

I know this was part of the equation but to tell the truth, driving one every day...they did it pretty transparently because the car feels better, performs better in every way. For this I believe kudos are due. I love the roller coaster ride of my early R50, and I still feel every bit of the road in R56, but it seems as if the ragged edges have been rounded off just enough so it is not nearly as jarring. Some might equate this to an essential part of an enthusiast ride, but I don't think so any more. On certain corners (if driven "spiritedly") my R50 would come off the ground...on R56 the car stays planted. In my driving this is a good thing and I am now a fan. This is not to say the first gen car isn't good and fun...but R56 is too. Really, this isn't news...this all came out on those first test drives by MINI enthusiasts...it's just much more real when you have a time behind the wheel.

 

Neither does yours to us. We are mano a mano. =)

 

I didn't want to imply that there is something wrong with trying to optimize design as to improve manufacturing efficiency (and thus reduce costs). Hopefully, this means that buyers can get better quality or more features without paying more as a result of efficient designs.
But let's call a spade a spade, don't sell me a change in design as a cure for "headlight vibration" -- or as Judge Judy would say "Don't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining".

 

It is far, far easier to accept that headlight stability is improved, as MINI has openly stated, then to believe a conspiracy theory about them hiding/lying about manufacturing costs. C'mon. Yes, I can see where mounting the headlights on the body would help on many, many levels. In any case, does it matter??? The headlights are there, and they work just as well. I suppose it's cool to be able to point your headlights up at the sky...but why? It isn't an element tied to the classic Mini and I say it's fair game to change it. Yes, the headlight look is slightly different (evolutionary), but there are strengths to each and so agruing over it is pointless as one comes up with bundles of pros and cons either way. It's irrelevant, imo...and even if cost was saved, it impacts nothing negatively in real life.

R56 is lighter, has better aerodynamics, gets better mpg, has a lower COG...how can one overlook such things? And yet...I still will not say it is a better car (even though I think so) because that, too, is for me irrelevant. First gen was special for a myriad of reasons, second is too for another set of reasons. That is my only point. If you want to save the first gen MINI, do so on it's own merits, not by harping on deficiencies of R56 which, frankly, aren't real prominent.

There's an old saying: "Don't blow out someone else's candle, just to make yours shine brighter." I think that applies to this discussion.

 

I'd never heard that phrase before. I like it.

Dean.

 

The original series gracefully curved bonnet with integrated lights and flares... a testament to the timeless design that Frank Stephenson delivered. I'm sure the bean counters had heart failure... but Frank held his ground.

Frank's design was not about fugly gaps, flat shapeless hoods, and fake hood scoops... or cost savings at the cost of his design. Frank delivered a timeless modern day classic with the R50-53... that single handedly reestablished the MINI brand.

The R50-53 is about the esthetics of the visual and driving experience... the complete package. It can not be measured in statistics such as HP, torque, aerodynamics or gas mileage! To do so misses the essence of what Frank designed... and what makes the original series so right... and the R56 so wrong.

 

Slaggy....a word of advise. Get that GP. You'll be so happy since you obviously appreciate the art of R53!!!

What you observe as ugly in R56 is strickly an "eye of the beholder" thing and you are welcome to that view. Many of us feel otherwise for many, many reasons.

 

+1

I love my R56 for everything it has...some say that the new headlights where to cut cost, but did anyone ever think that maybe they did it to make it cheaper for us incase or repair?? I think the life of the entire assembly would be longer considering it is not slammed shut along with the hood
There is noting wrong with gaps...they are not unsightly like some feel...They are subtle and at least our pieces aren't rubbing against each other because that would make more complaints (seems like MINI can't win with some people ) And I honestly love the shape of the R56 hood...just the right curves and it seems to project forward more adding to an aggressive look...previous models had a large hump in the center and the (snout) front of the hood/grille pointed down like a whipped dog (i don't mean that as rudely as it sounds)

Anyways yes I love my R56 and everything about it...i wouldn't change it for the world (or an R53) Thats my opinion

 

You can describe it as "a conspiracy theory" to downplay it -- all I was pointing out is that it appears the PR machine has characterized a corner cutting redesign as a "fix" to a vibration "problem" that I'd never heard complaints about or that I had experienced before (or now that I've looked for it). That's why I started out by asking if you, or others reading this thread, had such issues with their 1st gen.

In my opinion this was not a positive change. I do prefer the earlier design and the lack of gaps around the housing. Yes, this is one opinion . . . and it doesn't take away from greater mpg or arguably better engine (but neither does it contribute to it).

A lot of this forum is about discussions of design elements . . . some may prefer some things (whether OEM options or mods) over others, and we have a place where we can discuss those things. That's all -- I don't think my opinion will bring about drastic changes at BMW: it's just one man's point of view. It's also not intended to be a personal attack. I'm not saying my R52 is better than the coming R57 simply because I have different headlights. It's merely a discussion of a design feature I wish had remained unchanged (in spirit of the thread's title), just like some (including myself) could say "Gee, I wish MINI USA hadn't decided to kill the burble."

Take it for what it's worth -- apparently, not much, but so be it. Just don't take it as a personal insult, as some seem to do. I'm not questioning anyone's intelligence or enthusiasm for purchasing an R56 -- just discussing one design feature in what ultimately "gasp" is just a car .

Save Midnight on the Dragon!

 

Just as eager2own stated:

The fish eyed fixed headlights is the result of cost cutting... the loss of the cowl... cost cutting... the flat sided curtain glass is a result of cost cutting... the loss of the temperature gauge... more cost cutting...

The R56 is a series of cost cutting compromises that resulted in unsightly gaps, fake hood scoop, flat hood, and the Peugeot engine itself. BMW reestablished the brand with the original series.. it had to be right. With the R56... the design goal was maximum return on their initial investment.

 

No, that's fair enough...I got your comment confused with the more irrational claims, of which there have been many. Sorry.

FWIW, Frank liked R53 when he saw it, but did comment on the new headlight shape. Then he turned around and put them on his Fiat 500. I guess he is a genius!!

 

So slag, are you going to completely overlook and ignore each and every improvement to the car??? Wow.

 

I hope that Frank liked the R53 when he saw it... after all he did design it!

And from a driving enthusiast perspective and that of the driving experience... what improvements were made exactly?

 

Ah...good catch. I did mean R56...yes, he did like it!! Frank understood evolutionary design! As for the rest...brakes...do you not like the uprated R56 brakes??? Surely you must like that.

 

My R53 JCW... and the GP I'm now in the market for... have these same brakes. They are not "new" with the r56... they are a carry over from the R53.

 

One thing that makes me a bit shy of jumping in to buy an R56 is the sound system. The head unit being incorporated into the speedo makes upgrading all the more difficult.

Of course one reason I am sensitive to this is I have never been happy with the sound system in my R53. I had the HK "upgrade" in mine and I don't like it and it is difficult to upgrade. But it can be upgraded, it is just an expensive and pain in the rear proposition. Had I had it to do over I would not have ordered the HK. The R56 has no choice that makes upgrading easy. At least not the head unit. This may not totally stop me from purchasing an R56 eventually.

I know it is not much of an enthusiast issue, but sound is somewhat important to me.

But BMW has gone this direction with most if not all of their models. Same with the key fob. But other luxury car makers are doing the same things it seems to me.

I still can't believe that the beauty or lack of beauty is something worthy of argument. They are like nearly identical sisters to me. Neither is a dog in my opinion. Opinion being all that matters and not arguable.

 

From the uprated JCW...and now they're standard issue on the R56 MCS, isn't that nice??

Since your only interest is JCW/GP, I suppose there'd be a few tidbits of interest in the R56 JCW package.

 

That is a tough one. I love how the controls work from a user/convenience perspective, but fiddling with it....I mean where is it? Part is here...part is there. Not my thing fortunately.

 

+1. I would want to upgrade the hi-fi sound system in the R56 as well, but don't see how that's feasible (without installing a hidden second head-unit elsewhere, which I don't like).
I have the HK in my R52, and frankly think it sucks (sorry, best word I could come up with). I got it because the HK in my 325 BMW is one of the best options I got, and I expected to feel the same about the HK in the MINI -- the two sound systems are night and day. I haven't replaced it for 2 reasons: 1) harder to do (and to justify) than replacing the base sound system and 2) OEM look. . . but if I jumped into the R57, I would like to be able to get the base system and upgrade. Not a deal breaker, but certainly a minus. . . and a surprising negative for a car that caters to modders.

 

Here is one way to upgrade the audio;
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=127328

I've heard this set-up, sounds great.

Mark

 

Slag,

I can honestly see where you're coming from. I wouldn't get rid of my r53 for anything (87 Porsche) **joke**). I love this car and have been able to compare it to the r56s, and would still choose it after the comparison. There is a deep connection that you get with the whine of the supercharger, the back burble of the exhaust. The r53 is phenomenally fun! But let's be perfectly honest. You showing how displeased you are with r56 isn't going to make BMW bring the r53 back. I also highly doubt that you are going to change the mind of an r56 or r53 owner. Everyone is entitled to their own likes and dislikes, but one man,..hell! everyone on NAM isn't going to bring the r53 back. I think about it from time to time, "what if I total my car? the newest car I would get is an 06!''. Your fight to bring back the r53 isn't going to have a happy ending. It's awesome that your voicing your opinion, but I feel that your doing so thinking that your going to make a difference.

I would love if you commented on this^^^

Thanks, Dan