I saw earlier in the thread that a theory behind moving the radio up is to make the center stack narrower. This holds no water with me, as the stack could have been narrowed below the radio and still had the radio conventionally located. I think the problem with the R56 is that it isn't a Stephenson design, which was so complete on the R53. However, I respect the car for what it is, it does drive nice, and has grown on me quite a bit. I will say that at first I thought it looked odd though, until seeing some cars that were dropped, etc... Funny thing, I pointed one out to my wife that was driving right next to us, and she couldn't tell the difference.

As for performance, I AM a driving enthusiast, and I love the way the R53 drives, despite the numbers being slower than the R56. However, I have driven the new one, and though it was more of a subdued experience than my car, it still IMHO beat the crap out of cars like the GTI for driver involvement and fun around town.

One of the things Slag said that was damn true though is that no matter how fast a car gets around a racetrack, it's the driver experience that counts. I work with a lot of automotive testing, etc.., and the fastest cars aren't always the most fun, involving. Some are just pigs with big horsepower and stiff suspension. In this sense the R53 wins in my book, but the R56 didn't get morphed into some pig either. One thing I give MINI HUGE credit for is that the car actually got slightly lighter, which this day and age is virtually unheard of.

Now to the spirit of the thread, yes, save the R53. It IS a modern classic, and I don't plan on letting go of mine anytime soon. The car hit it out of the park right off the bat IMHO. The R56 suits many people obviously, like I said it's grown on me, but that's just it -- the R53 never had to grow on me.

 

I hear you... I noticed the extra knee room as well when I drove my friend's R56 - it IS nice. I'm just over 6' as well.

All I can say is that I drove my current car from Los Angeles straight through to central Ohio (a 3 day trip, driving 8-9 hours a day) and never once felt cramped or crowded. I have to slide the seat forward a few inches for proper pedal operation, and the central column in no way interfered with my outer thighs or knees. When you factor in the plusses of the "old" style center column (better stereo compatability, better-looking controls and an all-around more attractive design - IMHO anyway), it's a no brainer. Swap out the somewhat Sci-Fi-looking gauges for something more understated like these from Outmotoring and you have a classic!

 

My comments in Red pen...

Now back to the discussion... I find it some what ironic that the pie sized speedo gets spun as a by product of gaining leg room. This goes along the same logic that the goofy front end design is a result of European pedestrian laws.

I guess Stephenson had it easy... I guess there were no safety regulations to deal with just a few years ago? Or could it be that Stephenson was a master designer, that found ways to work his designs in concert with the laws and regulations at that time?

 

Sorry - I hope I didn't imply that the huge speedo was a by-product of the additional leg room - I have NO IDEA if it was or not. All I can say is that I think the MINI just ain't a MINI without the center speedo (I think the Chrono Pack on the R53 looked awful - center speedo baby!) but even still, the second I first sat in the R56, I saw the huge speedo and hated it. I think it's because it's only PARTIALLY circular - the bottom third is taken up my the stereo, ruining the circle (IMHO).



Of course, it's easy for us all to play Monday morning quarterback and grouse on the R56 - the engineers DID have to deal with ever-changing safety regs and all that, which is a great point. I'm more in the camp that Stephensin was indeed a master designer, though. Not saying the 56 is UGLY - hell, I'd rather drive a MINI of any vintage than practically any other car out there - I'm just saying I prefer my R52 (2005 cabrio).

 

Kitsch.

 

+1

 

Interesting... yet another R56 -> R53 convert... seeing more and more of this.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=124001

 

Actually, the entire interior of R56 makes a great deal of sense...at least as much as R50/53 did...if you drive one every day. I find myself appreciating it more and more...so many little tweaks. The controls are nice, great materials, everything where you really need it....no problems. Frankly, for function I would not be criticizing R56 especially when there was plenty faux in the first gen car....R56's design turns out to be very direct, straightforward, and functional. Many of the critical comments seem to demonstrate a pretty keen lack of day-in-day-out familiarity.

 

Again - I would urge people to check out the cold start noise issue on Motoring File. This is the piston slap that Slaggie and ClubmanS are referring to. Regardless of your feelings of the re-design, it should be a rallying point for BMW to address known issues with both the R53 and the R56.

Fact: The Prince Engine has an issue with this noise.

Fact: The Prince Engine has heat management issues.

Fact: BMW severed their partnership with Peugeot on these engines less than a year after the car hit the market.

Fact: The issues that some misinformed people are attributing to the Tritec had nothing to do with the engine. Get your facts straight before posting.

As for all of you who have abandoned this discussion to take personal potshots at people because you cannot separate your cars from your ego - grow up.

 

Man! Those faces are absolutely GORGEOUS! How much and how difficult to install? Yum yum!~

 

Are we throwing stones again? Don't be too quick to canonize R53. Its' distorted bonnet comically had a baluga-whale look about it...always looked a bit off. The split grill was styled after a dog (why?) and the lower part was totally faux....still makes no sense. The body-colored grill never looked right with the chrome trim, especially on dark colors...the trim just hung out there visually connected to nothing. Inside, the dash was plasticy and bloated-looking. The faux "roll-cage" styling in the rest of the cabin was gratuitous at best and never worked properly, especially in the arm-rest department. Nevermind all the rattles. The ride was twitchy, nervous, and lacked poise...and remained a source of owner complaints. The car also lacked overall balance, especially in the braking department. Folks liked modding it (JCW or aftermarket) because...well, they pretty much had to. If it was a MINI on steroids...it sure acted like one.

Folks can save it with my blessing, of course, let's just not get too high and mighty here. R56 has been an all too easy target to the MINI-laggards. No, they don't have to like everything...but some have painted themselves into such a corner in which some cannot like anything!!! That, my friends, is what comes off as pretty rediculous.

Oh, and btw, I really can a argue both sides of this whole thing...I just think over-idealizing R53 is a questionable practice. If you like it, though, and it suits you and your driving expectations...fine.

 

Frank Stephenson left BMW because he felt his talent as a car designer was being restricted by the prevailing corporate culture (Bangleism) and the bean counters. Reading the R53 development history, Stephenson did not have it easy at all. But the man had the ***** to stick to his principles and it shows in the final product. Even the beer can shaped exhaust tip has a very funny and remarkable story about it (Let me know if you want to hear it). In the end, Stephenson promptly left BMW after the R53 was introduced in 2002 and moved to Italy and went to work for Fiat. he was the head designer for Fiat, then was promoted to Ferrari and now days he is the head of Maserati/Alfa Romeo design. Frank Stephenson is considered to be one of the 10 best auto designers of all time. He also was responsible for the BMW X5 SUV, but the MINI is clearly the work that made him famous with his portfolio. Stephenson was born of an American mother and I think a Moroccan father. He was born in Casablanca, Morocco, but has lived all his life all around the world. He went to school at the famous auto arts design school in Pasadena, CA and his first job after graduation was with Ford Europe in Germany. He speaks several languages fluently..English, Arab, Spanish, French, Italian, German. A smart man and quite accomplished at 43 years old. The MINI and Frank Stephenson are the design anti-thesis for the horrendous design promoted by his ex-boss Chris Bangle. The MINI was the best looking BMW product back in '02 because Bangle could not touch it (But he had to approve it). The current MINI design director, Gert Hildebrand, was also very involved in the conception of the R53 but that was Stephenson's project from beginning to end. Hildebrand is a very nice man and passionate for the brand, but he is no Frank Stephenson. Hildebrand plays better with the BMW corporate culture and the bean counters. He is not a revolutionary like Stephenson was. In my honest opinion, Hildebrand is a run-of-the-mill car designer. Before coming to BMW he worked for VW. He created such gems as the Jetta/Golf III and other bore mobiles, forgotten in time. However he was also responsible for the previous generation Jetta/Golf 2 decent looking cars. He started his career with Opel. Unfortunately, a miracle and a juicy salary offer would lure back Stephenson to BMW. But he is clearly enjoying his tenure at Maserati and the man much rather speak Italian day in and day out than German.

 

Frank Stephenson is also responsible for the Fiat 500, the Maserati MC-12 and the Maserati Quattroporte among many other high calibre rides.....

 

Two excellent posts!!! Obviously someone who has owned and experienced both generations. I agree and can myself argue both side quite well.

 

Your post has quite an angry tone to it. All the things that you mention as "negatives" in the R53 are EXACTLY the reason(s) why I love this car. Sorry but I simply will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

I have experienced both generations as well. Still prefer the R53 hands down. But I can see the positives of the new one as well.

 

+1

No, make it 2

 

Frank is great, yes, but the first gen MINI design does have it's oddities...lots of them. I think BMW itself gives MINI (both gens) a lot of latitude (to their credit) to keep the MINI brand seperate and unique. Remember, the rear Clubman doors had to be fought for, too. If one understands R56 design, it all makes sense...as much sense as the first gen car does, and I think the designers deserve just as much credit for their work. I'm not trying to sell anyone on R56 if their preferences leads them elsewhere...all I'm saying is that it's not as cut and dried (or pure) as some may try to portray.

 

Ouch! another one lost to the R53..... I have seen his posts before. He had a '06 MCS, sold it, got a Porsche Cayman, got bored of the car, came back to a fully loaded '07 R56 JCW MCS Stage 1, hated the car, bought an used bone stock '05 MCS and now is trying to unload the R56 JCW MCS and...no one wants it! Quite frankly, $36K for a R56 JCW MCS is serious dough... For a few thousand more, you can get into a basic '08 BMW 135i coupe. Ian Cull, Ryan (Ryphile) and the list is growing...

 

Actually, Markus Syring was responsible for much of the Clubman design work and it shows. Whereas the R56 was mostly the work of Gert Hildebrand. I think Syring is a pretty good designer and more Stephenson in philosphy than Hildebrand. I have said this before... The Clubman addresses many of my personal dislikes of the R56 exterior design, with the exception of the front. I simply find it a much more attractive proposition. 1 year later and I still can't get used to the R56 rear end or tall side beltline...

 

That's fair. I would hope the first gen car always has it's fans...and I, too, fully expect MINI will not forget the type of enthusiast that really appreciate the qualities of the first gen car.

The second gen car has it's fans, too, though...and a good number of enthusiasts who find it's qualities very beneficial and very engaging, albeit in a dirrerent way. That's just the way it is and to deny that is crazy.

So what....we just have to go on and, I would hope, recognize that each car attracts enthusiasts and that too narrowly defining this just doesn't hold water.

 

Short attention span??

 

No, Too much money to spend on expensive toys..

 

Hey do you guys ever do work, sleep or have a life??? LOL! We all have been here debating all day long! Wish I could buy a round of beers for everybody. Its really been ENJOYABLE!

 

I do understand this as I never, ever got certain first gen MINI features at all. It just happens. On the other hand, some of us stand around the showroom staring at the back of the R56 coupe and, with negative comments in mind, just wonder what in the world could be the problem??? That back end is really well done and the attention to detail (given the aerodynamic improvements) is astounding. I really don't think they could have done any better....in fact, I don't think Frank could have done any better!!!

Then again, now some folks are puzzling over the Clubman rear end. At some point you just have to go with what you like.