R50/53 DSC Saved my life...
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: USA
You would do better to "adapt and learn" never to be on sand, gravel, or ice at a stop.
Though it could not be more obvious, I did not state that I always spin the tires when stopped at intersections and do so on dry pavement; I stated that I can reproduce the behavior whereby the system cripples the car immediately after getting it rolling, thus endangering the occupants.
Though it could not be more obvious, I did not state that I always spin the tires when stopped at intersections and do so on dry pavement; I stated that I can reproduce the behavior whereby the system cripples the car immediately after getting it rolling, thus endangering the occupants.
I guess the point of some of the posts...
is that if you know what does bring on the problem, don't do that!
Patient: "Dr, it hurts when I do this".
Doctor: "Well then, don't do that."
Many are pointing out that if you try throttle modulation instead of slam and go, maybe you will still be able to pull out and not risk the power loss.
Just a thought.....
Matt
Patient: "Dr, it hurts when I do this".
Doctor: "Well then, don't do that."
Many are pointing out that if you try throttle modulation instead of slam and go, maybe you will still be able to pull out and not risk the power loss.
Just a thought.....
Matt
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,054
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From: USA
And they would be misunderstanding the problem and/or failing to comprehend what has been posted, apparently repeatedly.
First, I was not referring to what you're calling "slam and go". Second, often the driver cannot predict exactly if/when and how much wheel slippage will occur at a given stop once acceleration starts. Not all of us live in California. Many of us are driving on very busy dilapidated secondary roads, patches of which are often wet, and/or covered with sand, ice, and/or snow. As soon as a wheel slips upon acceleration, the situation I described has already been created.
Maybe not. When pulling out into heavy, fast-moving traffic with the function labeled "DSC" enabled, you do risk power loss.
Maybe not. When pulling out into heavy, fast-moving traffic with the function labeled "DSC" enabled, you do risk power loss.
5th Gear
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 801
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From: Richmond, VA
Since you seem to be geographically ignorant I will explain that central Virginia is in the area of the Mid-Atlantic that, in the winter, typically has snow that falls during the day. subsequently melts, and then when the temperature drops after sundown, freezes. This is what we refer to as "ice".
Since we are not either Mother Nature or God we can't control exactly where this "ice" forms and as such have to drive in a manner that anticipates the loss of traction when a vehicle drives over this strange substance. I have a 42 mile drive on twisty back roads of dubious quality to get to my job; I seem to have acquired this skill. It saddens me that you have not.
Since most of us don't work for VDOT, we don't control the distribution of salt, sand, or a mixture of both. Thus, we don't have the ability to ensure that it lays at all intersections where we need to come to a stop and can't always "adapt and learn" never to be on sand, gravel, or ice at a stop. Again, we have to anticipate slippery conditions there and drive accordingly.
If you insist on driving such that you, "can reproduce the behavior whereby the system cripples the car immediately after getting it rolling, thus endangering the occupants" when pulling out into heavy fast moving traffic, I imagine your "problem" will self-correct shortly.
Good day to you, sir.
Just trying to make things easier - it's not a slam.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,054
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From: USA
I wasn't aware Virginia isn't in the real world; I'll have to have my people look into that...
Since you seem to be geographically ignorant I will explain that central Virginia is in the area of the Mid-Atlantic that, in the winter, typically has snow that falls during the day. subsequently melts, and then when the temperature drops after sundown, freezes. This is what we refer to as "ice".
Since you seem to be geographically ignorant I will explain that central Virginia is in the area of the Mid-Atlantic that, in the winter, typically has snow that falls during the day. subsequently melts, and then when the temperature drops after sundown, freezes. This is what we refer to as "ice".
Since we are not either Mother Nature or God we can't control exactly where this "ice" forms and as such have to drive in a manner that anticipates the loss of traction when a vehicle drives over this strange substance. I have a 42 mile drive on twisty back roads of dubious quality to get to my job; I seem to have acquired this skill. It saddens me that you have not.
If this was not just the result of a reading comprehension failure on your part, then your effort to take my rather specific point out of context has failed. Since most of us don't work for VDOT, we don't control the distribution of salt, sand, or a mixture of both. Thus, we don't have the ability to ensure that it lays at all intersections where we need to come to a stop and can't always "adapt and learn" never to be on sand, gravel, or ice at a stop. Again, we have to anticipate slippery conditions there and drive accordingly.
You've misunderstood that the "adapt and learn" quote I posted was a paste of a sarcastic reply to this: Yet again, the challenge of reading has proven too much for you. I never said, nor did I ever refer to either insisting on driving in such a manner that would cause wheelspin from a stop or being unable to prevent the wheels from slipping in general.
So you've misread/not read and misunderstood and then formulated a reply that started off by calling me ignorant based on your lack of understanding of the content.
Good work and welcome to my ignore list.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,054
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From: USA
You make an excellent point, but there is only one reason: In reply I don't want multiple, competing posts of multi-paragraph explanations of how DSC and ASC+T are not the same thing, how wonderful they are, and what specifically is turned off when the DSC switch is toggled. I am already aware of what each does, the difference between the two, and their benefits and drawbacks. So it's better just to avoid the onslaught of useless rehash that has nothing to do with the point that might result from saying "traction control."
But hey - like I said before, just trying to make things easier... you post the method that you prefer.
Now, you two have it all wrong...
If you'd noticed, I'd made the transition from attempting to add information to purly sarcastic input!Now to counteract what I just wrote....
If you really hate the system, file a complaint with the NHSTA (I think that's the acronym). You can also disconnect one of the wheel sensors and be done with it forever!
Matt
ps, I learned that if you multi-quote backwards and then hit quote at the first post, at least two will be in the wrong order! Not a bug, but an undocumented design feature!!!!!!
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,054
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From: USA
To you and I but perhaps not to the next random user who has a different opinion or just wants to needlessly re-educate the readers of this thread with his/her perception of a subject you and I already understand. Just trying to keep that to a minimum by instead simply referring to using the toggle--which results in easily reproducible, predictable behavior; whether users believe it affects traction control, orders pizza, or summons the dead.
I don't think of it as something I'm having problems with. It is just the way the car works. And it's easily mitigated.
I don't think of it as something I'm having problems with. It is just the way the car works. And it's easily mitigated.
Last edited by mcs22004; Jan 31, 2008 at 07:27 PM.
I tried demonstrating understeer/oversteer and DSC to my girlfriend in a closed course wet condition. DSC did nothing for understeer, little or no measurable difference. However in an oversteer situation, it does keep you stable. 
to DSC !
to DSC !
Last edited by second to none; Feb 1, 2008 at 06:48 PM. Reason: .
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 1
From: Middle Earth
And they would be misunderstanding the problem and/or failing to comprehend what has been posted, apparently repeatedly.
First, I was not referring to what you're calling "slam and go". Second, often the driver cannot predict exactly if/when and how much wheel slippage will occur at a given stop once acceleration starts. Not all of us live in California. Many of us are driving on very busy dilapidated secondary roads, patches of which are often wet, and/or covered with sand, ice, and/or snow. As soon as a wheel slips upon acceleration, the situation I described has already been created.
Maybe not. When pulling out into heavy, fast-moving traffic with the function labeled "DSC" enabled, you do risk power loss.
First, I was not referring to what you're calling "slam and go". Second, often the driver cannot predict exactly if/when and how much wheel slippage will occur at a given stop once acceleration starts. Not all of us live in California. Many of us are driving on very busy dilapidated secondary roads, patches of which are often wet, and/or covered with sand, ice, and/or snow. As soon as a wheel slips upon acceleration, the situation I described has already been created.
Maybe not. When pulling out into heavy, fast-moving traffic with the function labeled "DSC" enabled, you do risk power loss.
I do not live in CA. I live in the pothole capital, called Connecticut. Where we live with rain, oil, ice, snow, and sand along with patched roads and crazy drivers. I have never been able to understand what your, you know who you are, problems are with the DSC/Traction control. I drive every day and keep my DSC ON all of the time and never have a problem pulling out into traffic or entering a highways, even when I have to get onto Rt 15 (the Merrit Parkway or Wilbur Cross Parkway, depending on where I am) with notoriously short entrance ramps. Try standing starts, merging into 70mph traffic. That will get your blood flowing. I have never had the DSC interfere.
Driving around town the DSC is never a problem. The only time that I disable the DSC is climbing very steep hills covered with snow. However, ever since I acquired some real snow tires I do not even have to do that as often.
All of the complaints about "power robbing DSC" sounds just like someone who does not, or refuses to, understand what causes wheel spin and refuses to adjust their driving style to make allowances for changes in road surfaces, traction, and other road conditions.
The only time the DSC or Traction control activates is when the wheels are spinning or the car is "yawing" at a rate that activates it. This can be prevented, in most cases, by smooth driver inputs. Smooth application of power and smooth steering inputs.
I say, put down your cell phone and pay attention to your driving. Maybe you won't have these issues. Pay attention to the road and your surroundings and forget about your cell phone, your job, your girl friend or anything else that distracts you from driving. You will have plenty of time for those things when you arrive at your destination.
I certainly do not want to meet you on the road while you are thinking about anything but your driving.
Rant over. Flame suit on.
JOHO
Last edited by Bilbo-Baggins; Feb 1, 2008 at 07:55 PM. Reason: clarity
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: USA
which would be saying usually it is not possible. And I've said neither. So you've deliberately misrepresented what I posted in order to say the following
Therefore, there is just no way I can take much of the remainder of this post seriously. (You've gone from "your" to "one" and now to "He". If I was actually going to see your reply--which I won't--I would ask to whom you would be referring in your rant.) ...problems are with the DSC/Traction control. I drive every day and keep my DSC ON all of the time and never have a problem pulling out into traffic or entering a highways, even when I have to get onto Rt 15 (the Merrit Parkway or Wilbur Cross Parkway, depending on where I am) with notoriously short entrance ramps.
I say, put down your cell phone and pay attention to your driving. Maybe you won't have these issues. Pay attention to the road and your surroundings and forget about your cell phone, your job, your girl friend or anything else that distracts you from driving. You will have plenty of time for those things when you arrive at your destination.
So now you are implying that not being in full agreement with you must be the result of talking on a cell phone or being otherwise distracted while driving. This is a desperately moronic reach on your part. As someone who never talks on a cell phone while driving I am certain that you do not get to decide whether or not I am doing otherwise. Moreover, anyone could easily take your paragraph above, replace "put down your cell phone" with someone equally irrational and presumptive but vastly more heinous, and direct it right back at you, like this:
Bilbo-Baggins, [stop committing <reprehensible_act_here>] and pay attention to your driving. Maybe you won't have these issues. Pay attention to the road and your surroundings and forget about [<target(s)_of_reprehensible_act>,] your job, your girl friend or anything else that distracts you from driving. You will have plenty of time for those things when you arrive at your destination.
And thanks to the Ignore List checkbox I will never have to even be bothered with your false assertions about either what I have posted or how I drive. 
6th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,589
Likes: 2
From: Oregon, USA
So you're saying "usually...it is possible", then this
which would be saying usually it is not possible. And I've said neither. So you've deliberately misrepresented what I posted in order to say the following
to score some points with your friends based on your false assertion. Therefore, there is just no way I can take much of the remainder of this post seriously.
(You've gone from "your" to "one" and now to "He". If I was actually going to see your reply--which I won't--I would ask to whom you would be referring in your rant.)
So your mysterious "he" cannot "modulate or control his actions" if "he" encounters wheel slip. Someone who has never driven a car might even believe that. (Goodness what might your "he" do next--urinate in public, fail to pay his taxes, cheat at poker?)
Ah, back to talking down to (possibly) me based on your deliberate misrepresentation of what I(?) posted. Kudos to you for wiki'ing throttle, though.
("...your, you...you..." Uh oh. We're back to second-person. At this point, the reader can only guess to whom your comments are directed.)
Such a shame there is no medal for keeping it turned on. Since I keep mine on almost all the time, I might qualify for second place to your first.
Finally, a semi-interesting statement to chew on and that might warrant discussion among other participants in this thread--merging into 70 mph traffic from a standing start and "never" experiencing the "DSC interfere." On snow, oil, ice, sand, or broken pavement, merging into 70 mph traffic without "DSC" interfering could require a rather long ramp, since every time that light illuminates, "DSC" is interfering--even if you do not otherwise notice the interference.
I guess it depends on how one defines "steep," but my car will not climb a steep, snow-covered hill with the switch labeled DSC toggled on, even with new WS-60s, no matter how gingerly I "modulate" the throttle. However, I was able to traverse the same hill driving a friend's 05 MCS under the same conditions with the switch labeled DSC toggled on. There are threads other than this one covering supposed differences in DSC/ASC behavior among different cars. Other MCS owners who have driven my car have claimed that mine is too aggressive. But my car cannot be the only one that exhibits that behavior.
Maybe it "sounds" that way to someone who has had no experience driving MCSs other than his/her own, including models of different years, but to others it might sound like something else. Apparently the small portion of your post that was worth discussing seriously is over.
Yawn. Another tired, needless DSC/traction control lesson.
So now you are implying that not being in full agreement with you must be the result of talking on a cell phone or being otherwise distracted while driving. This is a desperately moronic reach on your part. As someone who never talks on a cell phone while driving I am certain that you do not get to decide whether or not I am doing otherwise. Moreover, anyone could easily take your paragraph above, replace "put down your cell phone" with someone equally irrational and presumptive but vastly more heinous, and direct it right back at you, like this:
Rhetorical: It would suck to have people make things up about you, wouldn't it? You might want to keep that in mind before you make something up about someone else again, but if I was going to see your reply, I admit that I might even be curious as to what nonsense you are going to make up next.
I certainly would not want to meet you at all. And thanks to the Ignore List checkbox I will never have to even be bothered with your false assertions about either what I have posted or how I drive.
which would be saying usually it is not possible. And I've said neither. So you've deliberately misrepresented what I posted in order to say the following
to score some points with your friends based on your false assertion.
Therefore, there is just no way I can take much of the remainder of this post seriously. (You've gone from "your" to "one" and now to "He". If I was actually going to see your reply--which I won't--I would ask to whom you would be referring in your rant.) So your mysterious "he" cannot "modulate or control his actions" if "he" encounters wheel slip. Someone who has never driven a car might even believe that. (Goodness what might your "he" do next--urinate in public, fail to pay his taxes, cheat at poker?)
Ah, back to talking down to (possibly) me based on your deliberate misrepresentation of what I(?) posted. Kudos to you for wiki'ing throttle, though.
("...your, you...you..." Uh oh. We're back to second-person. At this point, the reader can only guess to whom your comments are directed.)
Such a shame there is no medal for keeping it turned on. Since I keep mine on almost all the time, I might qualify for second place to your first.
Finally, a semi-interesting statement to chew on and that might warrant discussion among other participants in this thread--merging into 70 mph traffic from a standing start and "never" experiencing the "DSC interfere." On snow, oil, ice, sand, or broken pavement, merging into 70 mph traffic without "DSC" interfering could require a rather long ramp, since every time that light illuminates, "DSC" is interfering--even if you do not otherwise notice the interference.
I guess it depends on how one defines "steep," but my car will not climb a steep, snow-covered hill with the switch labeled DSC toggled on, even with new WS-60s, no matter how gingerly I "modulate" the throttle. However, I was able to traverse the same hill driving a friend's 05 MCS under the same conditions with the switch labeled DSC toggled on. There are threads other than this one covering supposed differences in DSC/ASC behavior among different cars. Other MCS owners who have driven my car have claimed that mine is too aggressive. But my car cannot be the only one that exhibits that behavior.
Maybe it "sounds" that way to someone who has had no experience driving MCSs other than his/her own, including models of different years, but to others it might sound like something else. Apparently the small portion of your post that was worth discussing seriously is over.
Yawn. Another tired, needless DSC/traction control lesson.
So now you are implying that not being in full agreement with you must be the result of talking on a cell phone or being otherwise distracted while driving. This is a desperately moronic reach on your part. As someone who never talks on a cell phone while driving I am certain that you do not get to decide whether or not I am doing otherwise. Moreover, anyone could easily take your paragraph above, replace "put down your cell phone" with someone equally irrational and presumptive but vastly more heinous, and direct it right back at you, like this: Rhetorical: It would suck to have people make things up about you, wouldn't it? You might want to keep that in mind before you make something up about someone else again, but if I was going to see your reply, I admit that I might even be curious as to what nonsense you are going to make up next.
I certainly would not want to meet you at all.
And thanks to the Ignore List checkbox I will never have to even be bothered with your false assertions about either what I have posted or how I drive. Glad you had fun.....
Banned
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My motoring statement was a heads up to the life span of this thread if it continues to be a pointless quoting match
sly:Mark
