The ASC is standard on all Coopers.

 

I find it very difficult to believe that you can't accelerate from a stop with DSC on. You will not be able to "floor it" but you should still be able to accelerate with full power. I do it all the time.

 

Now we just need to go out and get a few beers together.........lol

 

Now that's the kind of "Driver's Ed" I like ! ! !

This should be a regular event at all clubs.

 

It is with ours! :D

 

The reasons I should move from SC, states that have snow, have fun events like that, mine, we get a 1/4 inch and you cant find bread or milk, just a bunch of rednecks stuck with there macho 4x4s in ditches and overturned.

 

Only for the S. On a non-S Cooper, ASC is included only with the DSC option.

 

Not the R50, on the R53 yes, and so it seems as well on the R56s But after all the is the 1st Generation forum
Well here was the common issue, depressions in the road at intersection on the right hand side (because chicago area roads are built like CRAP) there's been snow roads are semi salted after a few weeks so melted snow pools up, it's 20F and colder out, the salt doesn't help any more plus it's thined out, I come to a stop and my right tire is on or just slightly before the ice, my left tire is on the higher dry pavement, I sit wait for the gap in the cross traffic and go...

With ASC on:
Right wheel slips a little, computer sense it to prevent spinning the tires cuts the engine power, both wheels slow I basically get a 3ft lurch (all outward appearances it looks like the car stalled), now I'm sitting in the road traffic barreling down on me at ~60+mph and thank god that lurch I managed to get got me over the ice, now I'm just sitting waiting.....waiting.....waiting...waiting for the engine to reurn power and thankfully I got it back soon enough or it would've been a nasty accident. (I've also had similar situations occur after rain and when gravel/pebbles/etc get kicked up onto the road)

With ASC off:
Right tire slips LSD kicks in , slight steering adjustment I'm off clear and through just as I planned, soon as clear the ice both wheels have power and grip and off I go. No close calls, flashbacks,final prayers,etc,etc.

So yes a MINI with an open dif faces a different control scheme, in which case ASC may be advantageous.

Now note DSC did not play a factor into either of these situations, however a car with DSC WILL ALWAYS have the ASC built in and until BMW changes this I cannot reccomend the DSC, soley because of the ASC system being built in. For the average driver in the average daily driving my experiance has been that DSC itself is a great system to reduce accidents and maintain driver control. For those that do car control, driver training, HDPE, Track days, or regualr AutoX and have a good understanding of their cars capabilities and functions I think DSC is frivoulous because those drivers who know how to control the car near the dge of its envelope should know better than to push the car beyond its limits and know that a letting off the gas, modulating the brakes and possibly a down shift will be just as effective as long as you are within the lmits of physicis.

And DSC cannot overcome the laws of physics regardless of who the driver is.

Basically for those looking for a used MINI all other things being equal, I'd search for a car with an LSD and Auto-off the ASC, if you make a choice with open diff then make the choice according to you're driving style, and if you're putting up with the negatives of ASC then by all means enjoy the DSC advantages, but you're probably better off getting some track time car control clinics (dry/wet and snow as applicable) and having the system off all the time. I know thick as mud.

 

ASC is standard for all Coopers. Just look it up on an order sheet.....I did.

Here is the 2006 order sheet. I could locate my 2004 as fast. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...rder_sheet.pdf

 

How about watching this video and tell me how a driver can possibly do what the DSC system can do.........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akZ9AaFB7Zc

I feel sorry for you Motor On. I don't have the same problems. When I lose traction, I just reduce throttle input a bit and off I go. Not sure why your car is so much different than mine.

 

Maybe I'm missing something... "asct", "asc", or "traction" are not on the order sheet at all.

The 2006 sales brochure from my dealer lists ASC standard for the S and not available for the Cooper (DSC of course optional for both). It still says the same for the cabrio at miniusa.com (and ASC standard for R56 Cooper).

 

The reason you don't see it is because it's standard equipment.

 

ASC does not appear on the order sheet because you can't order it as an option. It is standard on the S, and on the Cooper you can only order DSC (which happens to add ASC).

The attached document is the full features list I downloaded from MINIUSA when I was getting ready to order my car in 2005. It lists ASC as not standard on Cooper (not available), but included with DSC option.

 

some of the ECU hackers can make the traction control less intrusive. It's a real cool feature for sure.

What's sad is our cars have great handling out of the box, but we don't get the cool multi setting traction/stabillity features of higher end cars. There are a bunch of REAL sports cars that go from full nanny to no system intervetion at all... It's just the software that's different. I really wish that Mini/BMW would step up and put a 3-5 level system (including track mode, all off) in our cars. It would just take one more button! heck, it wouldn't take that, just one more indicator, and you tap the toggle to the level you want.

I guess I'll just have to dream....

Matt

 

My only gripe about the system -- I don't care WHAT alphabet soup you want to call it -- is that when I try to accelerate from a dead stop turning left across traffic on a dry road with cars coming from both directions and DSC is "ON", the car often wants to stop midway through the intersection. NOT A GOOD THING!! That is why I turn it OFF when I pull away in the morning to go to work: so that I actually get there in one piece. With DSC "off", I can cross the intersection quickly and without incident. With DSC "on", at least half the time, the car damn near stalls in the way of oncoming traffic!! Screw that!!!

I turn it on and leave it on otherwise; and especially in the wet, I make sure I have turned it back on. But, to date, I have to say that "the system" has never helped me out, and certainly NEVER saved my life, it has only made driving more difficult and dangerous on occasion. But, all it takes is one righteous screw-up to ruin a good life. That is the only reason I ever turn it on (or leave it on).

 

rkw, Weird about the ASC on the 2005. All of the info I was able to find on the 2004 stated was that it was standard. This was everything from Carfinder, Yahoo, and many more.

Mark, I can't see how your 04 is worse than mine. I just modulate the throttle and it gets me going just fine. Not sure why your's would be different.

 

I thought so too....but I now think maybe that's wrong, and the Cooper only comes with CBC, (Cornering Brake Control), and EBD, (Electronic Braking Distribution).

So, no ASC-T or DSC for you and me....you see.

On the S is there a toggle for ASC?

 

ASC and DSC use the same toggle. The label on the panel says DSC if you have the DSC option, or ASC if not. On a Cooper this is a blank switch position when the car has neither.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottinBend
Mark, I can't see how your 04 is worse than mine. I just modulate the throttle and it gets me going just fine. Not sure why your's would be different.

I'm quite certain that my '04 is neither better nor worse than -- nor even different from -- yours. You must be a better throttle modulator than I. But since I haven't lost control and crashed into any big ol' bad ol' trees or curbs or ditches, with the "DSC" "off," on dry pavement, I guess it usually just doesn't matter to me. I hope neither Ralph Nader nor Al Gore are reading this.

I used to drive cars back in the bad old days before electronic Otto Pilots and Guardian Angels started running with us to keep us out of "trouble," so a little wheel spin doesn't bother me. I've been spinning my wheels all my life, one way or another.

On the other hand, my car's controls not allowing me to tell my car what to do -- even for an instant -- DOES bother me. Makes me feel as though we might as well just move right along to that system where no one drives anymore: the vehicles are all tied in to the road and to each other, and all you or I do is sit in them and read the paper (on the LCD, of course) while the vehicle -- and "the system" -- take us to the GPS map coordinates we've entered. Clearly, there would be no place for individuals to control their own vehicles in that future.

It isn't all that far off, you know. DARPA's field trials show that folks resolve more issues and, literally, overcome more obstacles every time. Once they finally get it "right," it will only be a matter of time before the only places that one will be able to "drive" a car will be a track (if such things are still allowed) or Disneyland. "Control" will be something that only the more affluent will be allowed to experience. Members of the "middle class" need to savor every fleeting moment of meager controls that we still have while we still can.

That alternative future sort of gives me the creeps. You see, I don't value safety bubbles as greatly as some others might. I LIKE spinning my wheels and even getting a LITTLE sideways. The MINI's system isn't quite sensitive enough to let me do that and still save my *** without being "overbearing" and intrusive. A little adrenaline makes life better, although, statistically, sometimes shorter. I'll take better, thank you.

I think you and I are just different in this way: you might prefer to modulate throttles, while I might prefer to throttle modulators. Does that make me dangerous?

Yes, I know that the electronics are faster than my aged mammalian reactions, and more sensitive than my butt; but, in my opinion, that does not make them "better" in ALL situations for all drivers.

I think this system represents a classic case in which it is good to have an "on/off" switch. The engineers were smart to design it that way.

 

Yes, that video I watched it when it was posted on the first page Well first I'd enter the animated fantasy world, but this time in a MINI not a pontiac, then if for some reason when another lane was availble to me I decided to stay behind a vehicle with a precarious load (something I avoid as much as possible for the very reason illustrated) and I was traveling at a steady state, it would be a simple matter of foot off the gas while checking the lane next to me, quick tap of the brakes to transfer weight load to front wheels, slight adjustment to the left enough to change one lane (Not make a knee jerk over reaction, typical of many 16year olds as over reaction is the highest cause of their accidents) straighten out and power up and I'm on my way, with a heck of a lot less fishtailing. And since all MINIs come with EBD I could even adjust my actions to brake while turning and the ECU would distrubute the brake force in such a manner I wouldn't run into any loss of traction issues.

And don't be feeling sorry for just me, based on my experiance with 3 loaner MINIs and 2 test drives of other MINIs, I'd say you're driving the exception to the rule.

 

besides the fact that every one is the same echo of opinions and the like, is that I never see any of the naysayers actually look at the statistics of accident avoidence that these systems provide. They are out there, you just have to look and read. And the system benefits are impressive.

Couple other things too think about...

The Mercedes A class wasn't originally fitted with the system, but it couldn't pass "the moose test" (And accident avoidence manuver), and had rollover issues. Add the system and it's gone.

Also, those that pontificate about active electronic managment parts of the cars biatch about not being in control, yet happily accept the knock sensor electric nanny, or a system like ABS.

It all comes down to the fact that we have a less then perfect implementation of a very, very beneficial system.

Matt

 

As I said before, I think it can be a very benifical systemfor the average coffee drinking cell phone chatting makeup applying person sitting behind the wheel, but for a driver in a drivers car, I just don't think it's there yet.

Grassroots Motorsports did an interesting test a while back with a BMW 3-series; they separated it out between ABS on and off, ASC on and off and DSC on and off. Between the two drivers the only system that actually proved benifical on the TireRack's course was ABS

 

That is it, in a nutshell.

Here we have a system that can save your life, or throw you in harms way.

dean.

 

Yes there is. I don't have DSC on my 2006 MCS, but have ASC & a toggle switch for it.

 

Oh good Doctor, have you looked at an A class? Short wheelbase, narrow with a high center of gravity. I'm no rocket scientist, but even a dumb old fart like me could tell you what the results of that moose test would be by just looking at that thing. Yep nanny helped that car & will help those ill-handling SUV's that folks like to drive like sports cars. Those cars need it & need it bad.

Some folks feel they need it in their MINI's. Great, then they should have it if they want it. I thank MINI for making it an option. Like you said there are some cars out there that implement the system in a much better way than MINI does. On one of those cars I'd be glad to have that system, but not what's on a MINI today.