Haven't posted in awhile.... quick question.

My '06 MCS which i took delivery in Dec '05 only has about 16k miles on it. I'm still about 8500 miles short of the next service and since the 1 year anniversary of my last (the first!) service was in Feb of this year, my dealer won't take me until Feb of '08. I drive my Mini every day and do kick it in the *** a little bit but since i work close to where I live and have 2 other cars between me and my wife i just can't build up mileage (a good thing i guess).

Here's my question.... Is it ok to go so long between services? 1 year on the same oil (even if it is synth and looks clean on the dip stick) seems outrageous to me. what do u think?

 

I think a year is just a little too much for my tastes, although I had an 02 Accord that had schedule oil changes at 15k and the manual said to replace the filter every SECOND change!
I ordered a Blackstone oil analysis kit to test the oil in my Mini. Its sitting on the table next to me waiting for me to go out and take the sample tomorrow. Last change was in Feb of this year and I still have 9000 left on the oil change indicator. Should be interesting to see what they send back. I'm thinking it will be the best $20 I'll spend.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

 

If you want to attempt to keep your car for a long time, change the oil. Take a look at these pics. You can spend money on an analysis, or just spend about the same money on fresh oil. Your choice.

http://www.pvgarage.com/id12.html

YD

 

Wow! now that gets you thinking

 

i would change it every 5K... even if you can't do it yourself they only charge about $75 at the dealer....

especially if you plan on keeping your mini for a long time.

 

A quick google on the topic yields a few tidbits:

"Q: Who benefits from the 3,000 mile oil change?



A: The Oil industry, not the consumer."

+++++++++++++
The implications of the extended drain interval on the automotive aftermarket are mixed. There are two clear losers – the quick lube industry and the oil filter industry. According to a past National Oil and Lube News, Marc Graham, then president of Jiffy Lube International, said that for every 100-mile reduction in fast lube customers’ oil change intervals, the industry could realize $105 million in sales. Clearly, the converse is true, so a widespread extension of drain intervals would have an immediate and negative impact on the industry. This could be partly offset by the need for synthetic oils which traditionally command a premium that might help compensate for the lost volume.
+++++++++++++

http://aftermarketsuppliers.org/cmsp...tch.php?id=102

++++++++++++++

"Assuming that the current oil change interval for DIFMers is approximately 5,200 miles, every 100-mile reduction in fast lube customers' oil change intervals delivers $105 million in sales for the industry," said Marc Graham, president, Jiffy Lube International, and chairman of AAIA. "If consumers had their oil changed at 4,200 miles, the aftermarket would realize an additional $1.1 billion."

 

If you have gone a year without a service you should be entitled to a "low mileage oil service". You can get that if its been a year and you have not met the service mileage. but yes, pretty much everyone else tries to change the oil in between services.

 

Holy sheep sh**. Yuck!!! I'm one of those in the "between interval's" crowd. German Castrol 0W30 or Mobil1 0W40.

 

Yikes, those are ugly pics. I'd sure like to see some documentation before drawing too many conclusions though. Seems to be multiple motors pictured.

 

I know this is hearsay and doesn't count, but I have two personal friends who are:

the service manager for one of the largest Honda dealerships in my area, possibly the eastern US.

the other owns a private repair shop specializing in semi-boutiques such as BMW, Jaguars, Alfas, etc.

Both of them consistently tell me stories of customers who have followed the rules and are paying the price big time later (75K mile on up) with worn out engines, sludge, high oil consumption, tail pipe smoking, etc.

Apparently, according to the BMW mechanics who visit him, there is a definite BMW sludge issue going on that they are not supposed to talk about. Just google "BMW sludge".

There are also issues going on at Honda that isn't talked about regarding oil change intervals and sludge build up.

I personally don't care what anyone does, it is your car and your right to do anything you want. I just hate to see hard earned money go away too soon. I read all the posts about people who only change their oil according to the OBC, or their oil analysis and are getting wonderful results. I am truly happy for them. But I also see the opposite on this forum and in real life.

I also wonder how many people who profess the long oil changes have actually removed an engine, taken it apart, cleaned all the sludge and crusted residue from the inside of an engine. I wonder how many have even dropped the oil pan for any reason.

I hear "the oil on my dipstick looks clean". My oil looks pretty good on the dipstick, but when you drain it (my personal interval is 5k), it is black, ugly stuff. I don't do oil analysis, and if I did I'm sure the analysis would indicate that the oil would have some measure of useful life remaining. But the analysis can't tell me how much sludge is building up in small passages and coating everything inside. At least I don't think that information is discernible from and analysis. Please correct me here.

The engines we have in our MINIs are modern and technologically advanced. But it is still an internal combustion engine. We push them hard, if we have an S, the combustion pressures and blowby are even higher. A lot of us track and/or race them in some fashion. They receive very high stress and abuse. I do it too. This is the nature of a car with a fairly good power to weight ratio.... it accelerates quickly and we a male humans, enjoy that visceral feeling of acceleration... most of us do it with our MINIs every chance we get.

I am not a professional mechanic, but I have torn down and personally rebuilt more engines than I can count. I admit most of these were engines run and abused on dino oil. As for the pictures I found on the net... just google "oil sludge" and you will find many more just like it.

I just paid too much for my car to extend the oil change interval as long as BMW and others want me to. I keep my cars as long as they still meet their function and their repairs are cost effective. I keep cars 300-500K miles. I realize not many, if any of you would want to do that.

I have spent my career in the environmental business, and I don't want to pollute the environment any more than any other good citizen. But it is my belief that the extended drain intervals that we are now seeing on a lot of vehicles is due to the ISO 14000 governmental regulations.

Those regulations require that any manufacture of anything sold in the US produce a life cycle pollution index for that item. Basically, anything that the product will put into the environment during its life must be estimated.

This not only means exhaust emission, it means how many bald tires, gallons of coolants, transmission and engine fluids, oil filters, fan belts, etc. In order to get a good rating, all manufacturers want to reduce what goes into the landfills and recycling centers, such as coolant (hence the extended coolants now in use), sealed or never change transmission and differential lubes, and the topic of our thread, engine oil. Extended drain intervals, means less used oil into the environment. Good for the manufacturer's ISO 14000 number, not good for long engine life.

All modern engines using modern oils and most likely make it through their warranty periods with very few oil changes, maybe none. And if that is all you want (apparently a statistical risk issue) that is your choice.

I'm a maintenance anomaly. I do more than most people, but as stated above, I routinely keep my cars to a minimum of 300K miles. And they are running fine, and using very little oil. Usually, it is the seats and trim and paint that is showing the age, not the running gear.

I apologize for the long post, I just wish all the people that profess long oil change intervals would actually sit down and take an engine apart and see all the small passages that send oil to various places and think about what happens when those passages get clogged, just like heart arteries. Not good... and maybe there are many of you out there who are professional mechanics who do this everyday and profess long oil change intervals... I'm not trying to step on your toes in any way. This is just my opinion and it has worked for me. Hard to teach an old dog, etc.

If you are willing and concerned enough, stop by a reputable engine rebuilding shop in your area and buy one of the mechanics a coke on his break and ask him his opinion on oil change intervals.

I'll shut up now, NOT,,, hehehehe

If you read all of this and want to talk privately, just PM me... I'd love to hear you opinions.

YD

 

best post in the whole thread

 

Yes, any condition that's causing synthetic oil to break down and sludge like that will show up in an oil analysis. If anyone's concerned about whether their oil is doing that, take off the oil filler cap and examine the valvetrain with a flashlight. It's not the same as totally disassembling the engine and taking bottle brushes and compressed air to all the passages, but if sludge is forming, at least some will be evident on the valvetrain (just look at the pictures Yo'sDad linked to for examples).

I'm not one of the "OBC slaves", but I am one of the people that sends oil samples out for analysis. We have two identical MINIs that are driven in basically the same manner, and we're planning on keeping both of them for a LONG time, so there's some financial benefit *for me* in finding out experimentally what a good change interval is, rather than just picking some arbitrarily-short interval that I know is safe.

As for the OBC-recommended intervals, my last oil sample I had analyzed was from a dealer-performed oil change, after the oil had been in the car for 9,000 miles (half of which was long-distance freeway driving). The oil was about at the end of its service life, but the OBC said I still had 8,000 miles left to go, so take that for what it's worth.

 

Those pictures are NOT normal wear and tear. There is something else going on there that we are not privy to. There is no way that much sludge built up with synthetics.

As Scott posted, sludge will show up in the analysis.

I think that 8 to 10 is good for an oil change or once a year if you must.

FWIW, I type in "BMW Sludge" in Google and this link came up in the search.

http://www.landsharkautomotive.com/t...sludge_monster

Notice the last sentence.

"The sludge monster's invitation can be repeatedly rejected. To keep the sludge monster looking for a dinner date in someone else's engine, use a quality fully synthetic oil in recommended viscosity and change it at recommended intervals."

So I looked for their intervals...

http://www.landsharkautomotive.com/s...hed_maint.html

Seems that they recommend the BMW intervals to combat sludge.

I really think that the link from above is not based on "normal" driving or maintenance and is nothing more than a scare tactic to drum up business.

 

A DIY Mini oil change (between services) is also a very simple affair, mine used 5 paper towels and about 10 minutes - and that was my first time!

The canister oil filter came off without a drip spilled (thanks, 5-minute wait after breaking the "vacuum" by partially unscrewing)

Dipstick was "clean oil", but drained oil was pretty black. Not saying that's a technical term for contaminated oil, but I was glad I changed it!

Total cost = $10 for filter, $23 for Mobil1 (say what you want), $0.05 for paper towels. I'll recycle the oil at the local PepBoys and be done.

Small cost for potential big benefit later. Made me feel good too. I'll change at 7500 mile intervals, it's synthetic after all.

 

I plan on doing the "mid-cycle" oil changes as well. I have already bought the oil filters for both MINIs ('06 MCS and 07 MCS Conv) and the Fomoto valves to replace the standard oil drain plug. Being old school myself (used to 3500 mile oil changes), I figured 7500 miles was a good compromise over 15,000 miles.

I agree with one of the earlier posts, the photos are not telling the full story. There is no way to know what the oil change interval was for the engine illustrated...if there was an interval. Climate, driving habits, change interval, and oil quality all play into the equation, not oil change interval alone.

I think we as MINI owners can drive our vehicles a little harder provided we use a quality synthetic and adjust the change interval according to the conditions and our driving habits. To say 15k is good for all situations is foolish. Even the older oils used the catch phrase "depending upon driving conditions" on the can. I think that is a good tagline for all oils, synthetic or not.

 

I'm with Yo'sDad.

5,000 mile changes for me.

Three simple reasons:
1. 5,000 is easy to remember (I keep a log but can just look at the odo to know when to change)
2. It gives me peace of mind. I know there is good logic for longer changes but I sleep well at night with 5,000 mile changes
3. Total costs is low. If I change at 5,000 vs. 15,000 that means I will do 20 changes vs. 6.67 (call it 7). At $30 per change that is $390 over 100,000 miles. For me with 1,000 miles a month $3.90 per month. I spend much more than that on impulse items at the checkout.

To each his own.

 

Exactly what my Toyota PU's mechanic said, 7500 to 10k for fully synthetic oil is fine--closer to the former for harder city and stop/go and the latter for easier highway driving. Anything more is a waste of perfectly good product. But then we're soooo ingrained with the more frequent requirements of Dino oil it's hard to think about going even more between changes!

 

I have a question for cars that rack up less than 3k a year. I have driven about 2500 since last Dec. It would not make any sense to change oil between the 12 months period, would it? I understand the point that it never hurts to change oil more frequent than needed, but would syn oil break down over a 12-month time with very few miles?

Any input is welcome.

 

Tis true! However, living here in Germany for the last few years will quickly convert you. 1 Liter of oil is close to 20 Euro! So for me 10K changes are fine.

FWIW, I have had the oil tested here and there was plenty of life left in it to make to 15, but I decided to change it.

 

I have always heard either the millage or one year. Now, the new MINI is millage or two years. With the older oil, they would break down over time naturally but synthetics don't readily do this. So as long as you are using good synthetic oil you should be fine for a year.

 

I'm just waiting for BMW to change their reccomended intervals to before and after service contract length. <grin> Shorter intervels after the contract to keep up the service dept. $$!

The materials cost to service oil in the MINI's engine isn't too bad. I don't worry about going 10k or 2 years on, say, my Explorer which never high revs, and only sees winter/grocery/dirt road driving. I figure something catastrophic will happen elsewhere before the engine croaks. Considering the high revs, and dramatic changes in engine load I put on the four banger it's worth the intermediate and/or yearly change.

As far as the cost goes, meh, recommended oil for the e36 M3 is Castrol 10-W60 synthetic and that thing gulps about 7 quarts. That's about $80 just in oil if you can find it on sale. heh.

-/flea

P.S. I can't afford a new M3, I buy my 'fun' cars when they reach the 20-25k range. There was a little sticker shock on the $160 oil change at the dealer. <grin>

 

I know what you mean - the 1972 Mercedes I had up until recently was an *eight*-quart fill, and unlike modern cars, it actually burns oil between changes. The owner's manual said that something like one quart per 1,000 miles was considered "acceptable" oil consumption, but thankfully I never burned near that much oil in it.

 

My first dealer oil change here in Germany was 200 Euro and that was me providing the oil!

Needless to say, I let AAFES (military auto shop) do it now with me watching.

 

Short answer: no it won't break down lubricity-wise, but that's not the whole story. Any low mileage car is going to have aging problems different from a higher mileage car. Why? Temperature and humidity.

Water and volatiles can build up in the fluids through simple temperature and humidity changes. They also build up in engines/exhaust/.brake systems that don't see routine usage, through dew point/humidity changes (yes, even losed systems have ways that humidity can get in). These nasties are mainly burned off / vaporized in a car that sees routine usage.

Ditto exhaust systems - the OE exhaust on our Honda Odyssey is now 113,000 miles old and shows little wear, because whenever it's driven (frequently) it's driven long enough and gets hot enough to burn off the water that's inside - not just atmospheric humidity or the occasional carwash squirt, but mainly the acidic water that's a byproduct of combustion. Hot exhaust on shutdown means the water goes away - leaving little to rot away the exhaust.

Ditto tires, actually - there are waxes in the rubber that work their way to the surface under use, but don't under lack of use, resulting in "dried out" tires (and belts, and hoses)...

Learned the hard way: Low mileage does NOT necessarily equal better mechanical condition. (within reason, of course!)

That said, Mini approves annual changes. I'm not saying "monthly", necessarily, but at least every 6 months. There's also some wisdom in "turning the engine over" to be sure the oil doesn't settle away from parts in the northern regions of the engine, resulting in an oil-free condition on eventual startup.