no. you're twisting it. the logic is yes let's do something but, don't think for one second that the government really cares one way or the other. the only time they do care is when they see profit in it. and when they see profit they milk it for what it's worth and make it into a doomsday scenario. and when it's a doomsday scenario and they create enough panic over something they abuse it and screw the end user. there's nothing wrong with questioning authority and it's TRUE motives. a quick trip to the grocery shelves will tell you what a marketing boom it has all become. don't you find that odd? did they just now catch on?

sorry, agree to disagree or whatever. but, as mentioned i'm done and am letting the thread go back to it's original rant.

 

And you have assumed a lot yourself, we also have retirement accounts and BTW have 2 timeshares, 1 in Lake Tahoe and 1 in Monterey, so no big deal. You came in this thread throwning around a law lesson. Do you actually live in California? The smog laws here are stupid. You can have the cleanest emmisions but still not pass if you don't pass a visual. If one of these cars that were impounded even had a aftermarket intake they could have towed it away, it's insane. And they only reason most aftermarket parts don't have a "CARB" sticker is because of the money California demands from the vendors. It's about money not safety in most cases.

 

exactly, i moved my factory last year and had to pay thousands and thousands of dollars because certain machines where not ul certified, so okay fine lets get certification...what happened? some douchebag came iwht a roll of sticers, stuck the machines that werent cert with a ul sticker and now oh now theyre certified and leaves me a bill for xx,xxxx dollars wtf? ul certified? its alla bout money, and its not "lets do nothing" philosophy, its "lets not focus on the guy who's trying to work for a living, lets focus on the big picture and trying to reduce numbers on a large scale" philosophy, dont twist words, i realize that small changes can have a long term effect, so imagine what BIG changes can do, and wonder why they arent being done, and then ask yourself, are you really content with the small changes?, was it worth it to inconvenience hundreds of thousands of otherwise innocent people? cmon man, you dont HAVE to buy the ******** they are selling....

 

Good for you. Since you have a retirement account, you must be bored as well. Many on this forum think if you are over 50 you lead a boring life. I am glad we both can prove them wrong. I do not live in California. I never have. If you will read again my orignal post #70 on this thread, you can see that I just offered my opinion not a law lesson. There is always more to the story. By the way, I forgot about our 2 Breckenridge Colorado time shares. We never use them.

 

You know, as large as the aftermarket industry is and as many enthusiasts there are in California, how do laws like these stay? It is complete BS that a part like an intake, or muffler, that would have no relation to the emissions or safety of a vehicle needs to be tested and specially certified (at great costs) to get a little C.A.R.B number.
I'm very against most environmentally themed laws, not because I'm against the environment, but because they're only halfway thought out and wind up often times doing more harm than good. The CAFE regulations originally enacted in the 70s did away with the large sedans that most people were fond of back then. So in order to get the space and power they think they need, they flocked to SUVs. Now, when someone rolls down the road in a Chevy Impala, we look at it as a greener alternative to the large SUVs which should never have become popular in the first place. Wouldn't a large move to change public perception be so much better? Most people are really stupid and sheep-like and will believe almost whatever you tell them. We need more marketing telling them need less, not more. You don't need to go buy the Hybrid SUV to save the environment, you need to keep a 91 Honda Civic running an extra decade. Obviously car manufacturers only really profit off of new cars, but if they started a profitable business keeping more of their old cars on the road (like BMW and Mercedes do in Germany where you can build a car from the 70s with all new parts) then we'd really be saving the environment, of course this couldn't happen at a reasonable cost if all the parts that are improvements on original parts need to be CARB certified.

 

Well i'm not 50 yet . Sorry if I came off strong, it's just that some of these California law's are very strange and drive us nuts . It's all good, cya.

 

Yep . I also think a non oem IC is not allowed . It's part of the "intake" system, thats how stricked it is.

 

As a 16 year old, seeing this is scary. How much farther will are goverment go? The police seem to think there badge is a crown. Our politicians seem to be more interested in self gain, than in what is right for society. And it seems to me that half of this country will sit aorund and watch there rights slowly get taken away, and watch new laws that make good ole simple things illegal. I honestly dont know how much longer i want to be living in this "Free" country, a country where Oil producers got 18 billion dollars in tax cuts last year yet made a 123 billion in profits, or a country where we have a president and an administration that has lied to us so many times we dont know who or what to beleive. If this is the land of the free, im not sure we know what free is..

Jack

 

You didn't come on too strong. I understand California has some strange issues to deal with. What is interesting to me is that on these forums, you are out of step if you obey the law. You are out of step if you are over 50, and must lead a dull life. You are strange if you don't mod your car. I have owned Model A Fords, MG's (TF and early B) Corvettes from 62 to 93. I like to keep them stock. There is something for everybody and it's too bad a lot of folks here don't see that. In the Corvette, MG, and BMW car clubs I have been a member of, we always had a rule that on any club drive we must obey all traffic laws. The image of your club is at stake while on a drive. I sure didn't want a front license plate on my 1954 MGTF or my 62 Vette, but is't the law.

 

Pete,

I don't think the boring comment had anything to do with your age, more the content of your post (never break the speed limit or any traffic regulations, put all money into retirement accounts, etc.). There are a good number of people over 50 on NAM.

I agree to a certain extent with emissions regulation. I think if you're daily driving a vehicle it ought to have a functional cat that meets or exceed regulations. That doesn't mean that enthusiasts should be rounded up in dragnet style operations and targeted for illegal searches (if this is what actually happened) because they choose to exercise their right to assemble.

CARB certification and the whole California emissions registration costs seem completely bogus to me. Basically just a way to generate revenue w/ no real application of those funds to address environmental issues as far as I could see in my 5 years of residency there.

I think you'll find plenty of support for "to each his own" on NAM. The subject matter of the original post here seems to go completely against that philosophy, IMO.

 

Actually in our club most of us are either right at 50 or above. And I think most in NAM do obey all the laws of the road . But about the mod thing, come on its a Mini, it has to be modded .

 

you guys are all 50+ ?

 

Not me.

And I must be a weirdo... I like my MINIs "stock".

 

oh...no, not wierd, different maybe...haha jokin.....

 

20 years old here. And have 4 speeding tickets under my belt, as well as a negligent driving ticket. That neg. driving ticket was complete bull, btw... Who the hell tickets for spinning your tires, going up hill, in the beginning of winter?!

Anyways... I'd just like to say... That whole thing about the cops ticketing the gathering of car enthusiasts... Wow. Good thing that here in Idaho, the cops are too busy shooting people 16 times in the back to ticket a gathering or car show...

 

SilverRocket---I think if you read my latest 2 or 3 post, you can see that I didn't put all of my money in a retirement account. I do obey the traffic laws and don't think that is boring. I know nothing about California emissions or CARB certification. I am unable to discuss these items.

 

That's right,there is something for everybody!But to equate modding your car with lawlessness is asinine.As much as I loathe parts of the subculture that is "import tuning",I defend the right to have a high performance car on a budget.I'm sure given the opportunity,each of the arrested and ticketed youths would gladly drive a Ferrari or Lambo.Ironically,I don't see "Officer So and So" interrogating wealthy owners of "super cars" to ascertain why they feel they need a car that does 200mph and gets 7 mpg."What do you need that fast car for Mr.Fortune 500?"
I'm 40 yrs old.
All my mods are legal.
20 yrs of no tickets.

 

Hey, hey now. I might feel like I'm 82 most of the time, but I'm far from being 50 or above.

As far as this thread goes, I agree 100% with Rustyboy. I have nitrous in my car, loud graphics, no front plate, big stereo, etc. & I almost never go 10mph over the speed limit. Why? Well, those of you who know me know my Mini gets <5k miles/year & the longer it takes me to get somewhere the better, ie. more time cruising in the Cooper. That being said, if I go see you guys at a parking lot on a Saturday night and cops roll up to start handing tickets out like candy - now I'm the punk street racer with NO2? You've gotta be freakin' kidding me, I work at bank & my car is my hobby.

Sadly though, I've gotten the crazy "body modification" & "window tint" tickets. When I got pulled over with blacked out windows in my wife's Mercedes (greater tint% than the Mini, btw), the copper said to take it off & let me go with a warning & "have a nice day sir". When I got pulled over in the Mini though, I got to stand in the rain for 15min while the cop wrote me up for a window tint ticket. What the bloody heck? It's all in the name of revenue generating & while it's not the police's fault- it's an absolute tragedy that a few bad apples ruin everyone else's fun. So on that note? RustyBoy....right on brutha.

 

I think most of us would agree:

This IS 1930's Germany.

This IS moving towards Orwellian London.

I think Patrick Henry said it best:
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains or slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death!"


We can all sit here and say "well I don't care, I don't like guns" or "I don't care, I don't write newspapers" or "I don't care if I'm being spied on, I'm innocent!", but the fact is with every little right being infringed upon, we move closer and closer towards a dangerous trend. Giving up freedoms or ignoring freedoms lost by others WILL have an effect. Quote me on that.


Sorry, I realize we are now California bashing (and I'm all for it... keep going!), but I was thinking about that today...

 

It's my thread, and I'm fine with it being somewhat off topic. I consider all of this to be related to the general discussion of California (And other governments) stripping freedoms from their citizens, which is basically what the original topic of the thread was designed to stimulate a discussion about.

 

I don't suppose you have an agenda? What I find true is that nothing gets done until a crises exists. So, of course, if someone suggests action before there actually is a crisis, he/she is an alarmist who obviously has ulterior motives, especially if it impacts a favorite vice. Since when does the Government care about making a profit?

 

I am over 50, and do not at all have a boring life. Nor do I believe having excess sums stored up makes one somehow better or smarter than another. So you have 2 timeshares you pay for and don't use? I'd rather "waste" my money on mods I got enjoyment out of.... I believe in investing in the enjoyment of life and, after 2007, which saw my daughter die at 25, my wife of less than a year almost die and myself having a heart attack and emergency open heart surgery, I am sure a hell glad I have that philosophy.

 

I'm 19 and I'm opening a retirement account. I'm not boring... I'm starting to mod. Best of both worlds! haha

I say, cut him a break. If he drove a 1993 Geo Prism, made 6 figures, lived in a trailer, then you can accuse him of not enjoying life... but seriously, there's nothing wrong with retiring and buying a Bentley with your 401k or IRA!!

 

Not saying there is. Just saying, it doesn't make one a smarter or better person for having done so. Everyone has there point on the line between now and the future.

 

Not the Patriot Act, Project Echelon started back in the early 60's. Intercepts all electronic communications and runs it through computers in 5 different countries. All of which but one, I might add have been mentioned in this thread for their growing likeness to police states.

Create dependency, create complacency, create a "utopia" where you are never questioned and nobody can resist you.

Orwell was right.

that is all they do. the Government does not produce anything they confiscate and occasionally redistribute. They do not care about people, the environment or anything other than their own self preservation and power. I like how we rely on them for answers to things like saving the environment when 99% or more of them are lawyers. Lawyers who can be convinced with partial scientific data that Caddilacs are killing polar bears but the third world industries vomiting pollution into the atmosphere are fine because their country signed on to the Kyoto accord.