I'd like to replace the door speakers on my Clubman HiFi in hopes of gaining some improvement in sound without spending more the $500. I've tried sorting through the various threads. If I buy component speakers there's the issue of what to do with the 4" door speaker. I'm willing to remove the door panel and a-pillar cover to replace speakers but I'm a little intimidated at the idea of putting in a new amp and the required wiring. It seems like the Focal 165 a3's would be a simple solution to meet my needs. I don't listen at loud volumes but would like to have enough power to overcome road noise with the windows down. Any suggestions?
Thanks!

 

Listen to the lower speaker in the doors. Is it just bass, or is it playing midrange as well? This would help determine whether you want a 2-way or 3-way system.

Whatever you do, you will have to go into the A-pillars to remove the tweeters, whether you replace them or not.

Infinity Kappas will work, but I don't like them. Too harsh for me. I have a set I'll be selling soon.

I don't know about the Focals. The 165A3 might be in the right power range. I did have a Crutchfield rep tell me he thought they would need more power, but the've given me incorrect info before.

The Polk MM6501 are supposed to be good, but like the Focals, the HIFI amp might not have enough juice for them. Their DB6501 take less power, and also have silk/polymer tweeters (probably less harsh than the Kappas).

 

The Focals seem to be the only 3 way component. The Polk DB6501 are appealing but would I need something for the midrange? Would a 4" 2 way speaker work?

 

You could use the DB401 - Polk Audio 4" 2-Way Car Speakers, but you would have more tweeters than you need. The Kappa 42.7i, that I just removed, used an external crossover, so I just didn't connect the tweeter. Newer Kappas have internal crossovers. It is very difficult to find 4" with crossovers that will work on HIFI power levels.

The Polk DB401 has a power range that looks like it would work well with the HIFI. You could try not connecting the tweeter that comes with the DB6501.

If I hadn't gone crazy and jumped in with Image Dynamics amp and speakers, the Polk might have been the option I'd choose. This is based on reputation. I haven't had the opportunity to hear them, put more than one source suggested Polk to cure my aversion to "brightness."

 

The Focal Access ;line is designed to work on factory systems , they can work without an amp just would last longer and sound much better with one . My guess you would probably be ok , and that 165a3 would be the best drop in system if thats all you wanted to change . the access line sounds fantastic for the cash.

I would stay far away from a 4" with a built in tweeter,more than one set of tweeters up fron means very bad imaging , even if the frequancy is cut off on the upper end.

Buy the 165a3 and be done with it if you want simple and good sound , if you want the best sound possible then you don't want simple( ask Robin )

 

Thanks for the input. It sounds like the Focal Access components might be the way to go for my needs. I'm annoyed by the poor audio quality every time I listen to my Clubman HiFi. I actually enjoyed the sound on my '04 MCS HiFi. If the Focals will get me back to that level of sound quality, I'll be a happy motorer.

 

Let us know how they work out. I came close to going that way, but was afraid they would be brighter than I wanted, and need more power than the HIFI supplied. If my fears were unfounded, I've gone to a lot of unnecessary expense and cost.

It seems that something close to what you had in the '04 will be available for order in December.

 

You could do what I did and just replace the tweeter and the 6.5" in the door with a good quality aftermarket speaker set. Run those straight off the factory amp using the crossover in the amp and not the passive crossovers that come with the speakers. The go to Radio Shack and buy two 100uf capacitors and add to the 4" mid in the door. I used Diamond Audio speakers I had leftover from systems past and am able to turn the radio all the way up with the bass setting on zero without any distortion. The factory crossover settings on the 4" speakers are way to low and you get to much bass to them stock. This solution solves that problem.

 

How'd those ever work out? Planning on dropping in the same Focal 165 a3's.

 

Keep in mind that the HiFi & h/k systems are not good candidates for drop-in replacement of the factory speakers with aftermarket units.

Crossovers - which divide up the frequencies and send them to the appropriate speakers - come in two types. Electronic (or active) crossovers divide up a low-voltage signal which is then amplified and sent to the speakers. Passive crossovers receive an amplified high-voltage full-range signal from an amplifier, then divide it up and send it to the speakers.

The problem is that the HiFi & h/k systems use a mix of both for the front channels. Only 4 channels of the amp run the 6 front speakers - each door woofer gets a channel, and the midrange and tweeter share a channel. There is a ~100Hz electronic crossover between the two amp channels - the door woofer gets everything below 100Hz and the tweeter and midrange get everything above 100Hz. The midrange has no passive components on it - it gets everything above 100Hz (this is a huge oversight, but that's another story). The tweeter has a capacitor in series that limits frequencies below 4.5kHz. In this system, the small 3.5" midrange speaker handles everything from 100Hz to 4.5kHz, and does double-duty with the tweeter from 4.5kHz on up.

Aftermarket component speakers like the Focal's mentioned above come with passive crossovers. The midrange in these systems is typically designed to handle from ~500Hz to ~2.5-4kHz. They are NOT designed to handle down to 100Hz - you will really get a lot of distortion from them if you try. This is why JENGLAND above needed to put a capacitor on the midrange - the 100uF capacitor limits frequencies below 400Hz and is about right for the midrange. The problem with this setup is now NONE of the speakers is receiving the signals from 100Hz to 400Hz. You are missing a massive amount of music content. The only practical way around this with the HiFi & h/k systems except to use a separate amplifier. This has the added bonus of giving you more the the 3 WATTS TOTAL the HiFi amp is delivering to each midrange/tweeter pair.

If you were to elect to do this anyway (?!?!??), keep in mind that you would still need to use the Focal's passive crossover to divide up the signal between the midrange and tweeter.

 

Has anyone looked into modding the amp to remove or change the frequency range.
I think this is done with a ic chip i could be wrong

Any one familair with class d circuit design care to comment?

 

It is done with an IC, though I'd have to dig through my notes to tell you which one.

Folks upgrade ICs and OpAmps in quality amps all the time, but in this case I can't see any possible benefit to replacing or attempting to reprogram the IC. For one, the rest of the amp is of very low quality - transistors, capacitors, etc. And two, the DSP and gating that is applied isn't too bad given the constraints of the rest of the system. You could improve it by reducing the bump in low-frequency response, but that's about it.

In other words, if you were replacing the speakers, the amp isn't worth the effort of removing or modifying the frequency gating. And if you are keeping the existing speakers, it seems like a lot of effort for not much of an improvement.

 

I understand ur point

If this is simply $5 worth of parts and and few screws and someone making a diy here

to get the full frequency range back

then

maybe it would be for those on a budget

I would be curious to test this out with a simple A-B comparison or maybe I should say before and after .

There is a benefit of keeping things stock and simple which is extactly what you are going to be offering with the soundstage kit. As you mentioned just on a nicer scale.

This could be a decent upgrade with the right speakers , did you play around with this to see the results ? I know there are many EE that are of the mind that internal components dont matter , a cap is a cap or there is no improvement done when you go from a normal resistor with same tolerences as a high quality one . You get what I am saying . Again I would not have replaced my Caps in my tube amp at home with Black Gates if I was on thiat side of the fence .

I am just curious as your response to this .

Do you plan on offering some easy plug in harnesses (for signal and possibly power) for those of us who want to step it up a notch and go with something even higher end than your stuff? I have seen Mikey's stuff overseas and thought that was a great idea.


Oh and when are you going to make a box for the Clubman ?

Thanks for all the work you have done to make the Mini sound better !

 

Well, your best bet would be to try the NCS Expert route. Strobeyprobey and others have posted extensively on it. But no one, to my knowledge, has actually reprogramed the DSP curves, or even begun to figure out how.

If you are asking if we played around with replacing individual components in the amp, no - it's a non-starter from our perspective based on the rest of the amp. Better to replace the entire amp with a good one, and bypass the old one with a factory-style plug-n-play wiring harness - which is what we are working on.

The Clubman and Countryman Subwoofer Systems are slated for development this summer.