I've been looking around and finding good deals on component systems for my Mini. I toyed with the idea of buying the A pillars to install tweeters, adding an amp, etc.

After much thinking about it, I decided to go the simplest route - I'll begin by changing the front speakers, and as time and money allows, the rears, but not with component systems. I'll be using raw drivers with which I've had experience.

The thing is - I know the performance of the drivers I'm buying. I know they are serious contenders when it comes to distortion, power handling and frequency response. I know I can play with the crossover frequency in order to help with my Mini's odd speaker placement. I can be sure to use the stock wiring, so I can return my car to how it originally was without much problem. And I'll be saving money in the process (hopefully).

I wouldn't be surprised - at all - if the drivers I picked beat the Focals all around. They certainly are some of the best "budget" woofers and tweeters out there. So fear not about their quality - chances are, you may not afford them if they were sold as a brand name kit.

The woofer is the Dayton Audio RS150-4, a 4 Ohm, 6" unit. Aluminum cone, copper rings, and designed for car use.92 db/W efficient, which will come in handy with the low power the stock unit provides.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...95-372&scqty=2

The tweeter is the Dayton Audio RS28a (which is manufactured by Usher). Aluminum faceplate, aluminum dome, copper rings, 4 Ohm, 91 dB (which will work out in the circuit design since the woofer inductors are lossy by nature).

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=275-130

The circuit will use 3 parts on the tweeter: 2 caps, 1 coil. And will fit behind the tweeter in the 4" opening. The woofer has 2 pieces: 1 cap, 1 coil, and will definitely fit behind it.

I'll post the initial circuit design later today with the modeled frequency response. So far it looks very promising.

 

Looks good...i too am a DIY guy...i got sick of the way off the shelf comps sounded and started putting in 17w75's and d-28's....probably before you were born.

 

You sure the stock audio will have enough power to drive those speakers?

You do know that the signals to the speaker wires are already filtered, right?

 

not in the NON-HIFI....woofer is fully range...thats why i suggested you try setting yours up like i did mine.

I get TONS of output out of my factory HU....but i still want to amp the fronts eventually. Right now i am working out the kinks in my subwoofer.

 

Yeah. I should have 15 W to the fronts, full range, on the 4" and the 6". I'll take the signal and filter it accordingly. The speakers I'll be using are surely more efficient than the stock Mini ones, and I'm not after mind-blowing SPL, but a better sounding stereo. 15 W on a 90~91 dB/W system will be more than enough for my needs (theoretically speaking, 102 dB/W at 1 meter for a single speaker - far better than the figures for the stock stereo.)

The rears are the ones that are filtered, and I sincerely have no clue about what to do with them. If I ever add an amp I'll run every set from the front outputs.

MiniSQ, if you were working with those drivers before '74... yes, you are right Do you see any problems with my approach? As it is right now all that worries me is the listening height. When modeling the crossover, I find out that I may need to invert polarity in order to mantain a smooth transition region. This is the first time I'll do a DIY x-over for a car, and I'm sure the challenges are far different than those with home audio.

I mean, if I bring my measurement rig to my car, where shall I place the measurement mic? And stuff like that. Heh.

 

it was in the mid 80's...i think in 1974 people were wedging there home speakers in the rear deck with towels

i see nothing wrong with your setup...i inverted the polarity in my woofers and it seems to smooth out the bass response...i tried reversing one tweeter to try and raise the sound stage but it sounded like crap in my mini.

I do not have any height in my sound stage but it is also not anchored in the floor either..so i won't complain...its right about shoulder height...and on some decent recordings i would describe it as detailed and deep...but i do not have height, and i do not have upfront bass yet...but i have all week off to play with it.

But my current speakers are somethign that i was given and i am very unfamiliar with them. They are made by pioneer and i wold say they are better than average...great tweeter...someone weak midbass. I may swap the midbass out for some seas performance mids i have laying around....but like i said this week i am trying to sort out my subwoofer.

 

OT: I am into DIY tube amps for the home . I always wanted to build one for the car .

MiniSQ ever tried you hand at this?

 

Nope...but there was a bmw back in the day that used milbert tube amps...very cool stuff.

 

What kind of pioneers? I was looking at the A1702C or so components. Seems the woofer fits perfectly in the lower cavity. But I guess the X-over point is close to 4KHz. My current plan is to cross over to the woofer at 1.5 KHz, raising the soundstage as much as possible.

Yeah, the Dayton tweeters are really sturdy...

 

pioneer premierPRS
ts-m7prs...mid
ts-t3prs .....tweet
ud-n2prs....cross

They i think they retail for around $700 for the whole set...i got them for almost free from my brother who owns his own CAR AUDIO store...i think they sound pretty decent...i will be getting an amp and then i believe they will open up more. I just need to be patient until i can find a Mint soundstream class A or D100.2 amp...or maybe a PPI 2075 or a300.

1.5 seems kind of low for a 2-way comp.....you want to be sure to stay above the range of the vocals....thats getting close....and so you would be smearing your imaging.

I have never heard that a low crossover point raise the image....i think it would be hard to find a tweeter large enough to play down that low and still fit it in the door...maybe horns?

 

Hi Mini,

The Dayton RS28 has an Fs of 600 Hz or so, and it's distortion profile and Xmax allows for a really low crossover point. It has been used on some designs as low as 1.2 KHz with a Cauer-Elliptical 8th order filter. I have used it at 1.5 KHz with a pair of 7" woofers, and it worked well. I'm sure it won't have any issues keeping up with a single 6" woofer at that frequency.

I'm not sure about car audio, but from what I've learned at home, lowering the x-over frequency helps with woofer - tweeter integration, since CTC spacing can be wider. Also, it'll help me avoid woofer break-up modes. I supposed that with the tweeter covering a wider spectrum I'd raise soundstage a bit, but then again, I could be wrong.

 

miniSQ- you are bringing back memories of the 80's. I owned a car audio
shop back then and Dynaudio separates were really cool- I have the actual
car versions now- but I have a box with a bunch of drivers from back then.(24w100's anyone?0
You are correct about the phasing of these cars. I finally got my system in last week and the woofers are out of phase at the drivers seat-switching one around makes a ton of difference. The car almost actually images. The stock tweeter placement sucks in this car- I was trying to avoid going to the kicks but I don't think it is avoidable. BTW if you are interested I have Soundstream A50 in my collection of car audio that worked flawlessly last I used it (probably 18 years ago).

And I agree- I have never heard of a lower crossover point raising the soundstage unless you are doing compression driver horns which can play a lot lower but obviously are mounted and utilized differently. I have found
soundstage with door mounted woofers gets better if you use woofers that have a lot of off axis response.

 

I had my dynaudio d28 2's in my kick panels point right up at me....loved that sound. Not a fan of pillar mounted tweeters....unless done by a true professional with a minimum of 100 hours tweaking the sytem

This mini install i am doing is totally bring back some great memories. I lived in san diego back then and remember driving up to Orange county and walking into SpeakerWorks....but never sat in the Buick

 

Don't even get me started on pillar mounted tweeters- I'm just trying to deal with the door placement. I got to sit the Grand National twice after Richard Clark bought it- it was great for it's time. So much so I bought a set of the original Speakerworks horns and Dynaudio 8" midbass drivers in the doors of my Suzuki Sidekick. I had PPI make me a custom extruded art series amp that had 3 a600's in one heatsink custom painted. Ran the whole width of the car. Oh to be young again and not have a mortgage.

 

I've checked out the fit of the Dayton RS150 (I have the 8 Ohm version around).

It won't fit. It's too small!

I could build a plywood baffle, but I'm not sure 1/4" is thick enough, and whether I'll have enough clearance to install it.

Dang, I thought I had it all figured out. :(

Maybe this Pioneer system is a better bet? I could just disassemble the crossover and add the parts behind the drivers.. what do you think?

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSA7...2C.html?tp=106
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...emier/TS-A702C

Apparently the woofer will fit without any issues. The only thing I'm worried is that the tweeter won't go as low as I'd like. But it's also 90 dB/W and 4 Ohm. It could be an easy replacement.

I'm amazed that I can't seem to find a bass speaker that fits in a 5.5" hole. They are all either 4 15/16" or 5.75", or are 8 Ohm. :(