With a 2-way component speaker set, and the tweeter in the upper door location, it seems that all midrange goes to the tweeter. The lower location seems to only get bass with the HIFI option.

So, I'm wondering whether it would be OK to connect both the upper and lower door speaker wires together to the corssover that came with the speakers?

The Image Dynamics CXS64 V.2 (and I would think most 6.5" speakers) were designed to be mid-range drivers. Seems wrong to turn them into subs and make the tweeters take all the mid-range.

If the tweeters are put in the A-pillars, nothing in the front is driving mid-range. A 4" speaker could be added, but they are mostly all coax with tweeters. So, the system would be over-tweeted--or so it seems to me.

 

The crossover point on the ID speakers using the supplied XO is 3500hz...and i am assuming you are using the supplied crossover?

This is a MINI issue and not a ID issue...i remember reading something funky about the HIFI speaker leads...can i assume you ran the bottom mini speaker lead into the crossover and then ran fresh speaker wire from the crossover to both drivers?

Where did you mount the XO? I put mini in the armrest...

 

What are the crossover points on the HIFI system?

Anyone have a idea what type of amp is used in the HIFI system class d? class t? class AB?

Are you leaving the HIFI amp connected and "bridging" the mid and mid-bass channels? If so that a big no no you will end up messing up your HIFI amp(I can almost guarantee the amp is not made to be bridged).

 

Yes, this is a MINI HIFI issue and possibly applies to the standard audio option as well. I think it would apply to any brand of component 6.5" used in the door.

As of now, I have not used the crossovers. I just connected one 6.5 woofer directly in the passenger door. Unless it is safe to put the two factory speaker wires together, I wouldn't know what to connect to the crossover.

I'm only using the HIFI amp at the moment (contemplating getting a better amp). IIUC, you are saying that connecting the positive lead for the lower door speaker to the positive lead of the upper door speaker, and negative to negative, is a no no, right?

Previously, I had Infinity Kappa 60.7cs with the woofer in the door, the tweeter in the A-pillar, and a Kappa 42.7i in the upper location in the door. Both Kappas have external crossovers. I connected to only the woofer connectors on the 42.7i. I'm not sure whether I should have used the crossover for the 42.7i, or not. However, most 4" speakers (including the latest version of the Kappas, IIRC) are coax with built-in crossovers.

 

Can you explain your overall approach? I thought the HiFi amp has built-in crossovers for each channel and it wouldn't make sense to connect it to speakers with external crossovers.

 

Here is my thinking:

As I understand it, in the door of the HIFI system, the 6.5" location gets bass (not sure where the cutoff is), the 4" location gets the mids and highs not sent to the 6.5". The stock 4" speaker doesn't do highs and they are lost. The tweeter location in the A-pillar gets highs.

So, how do you best upgrade speakers?

Scenario 1: You buy a 6.5" 2-way set that works with the HIFI amp. The woofer goes in the 6.5" location and the tweeter in the A-pillar. The 4" area is empty. Oops, no midrange.

So, you buy a 4" speaker. Well, they all seem to be coaxial with built-in crossovers. So, you are stacking a crossover on top of whatever the HIFI amp is doing. Let's pretend this is OK and the double filtration doesn't mess up the sound. So, you have a bass woofer 6.5" and midrange woofer 4" with tweeter, and a tweeter in the A-pillar. You are over-tweeted.

The old Kappa 42.7i had an external crossover that you could leave out and only connect the woofer. I hear that the new one has an internal crossover.

The perfect solution would be to find a 6.5/4 3-way speaker system. Unfortunately, they are rare. The most well known here is the Focal 165A3, but oops, the HIFI amp doesn't put out enough power for it.

Scenario 2:
Get a 6.5" 2-way component system and put the tweeter in the 4" location. Is it OK to send the tweeter all that midrange?

Eventually, I'll get amp. Then I can bypass all the filtration and set it up with the proper crossovers. For now, I have some brand new Image Dynamic 6.5" 2-way component speakers and I'd like to try them with the HIFI amp.

 

you need to refer back to my original post..here is your wiring plan:

1. You need to find the wire inside the dor that is carying a full range signal. I believe there for sure is one, i just don't know if it is the one going into the 4 or the 6.

2. This wire gets disconnected from the speaker it is atached to and all other speakers get disconnected.

3. Attach this full range speaker wire + and - into the ID crossover. It attaches to the "input" + and -.

4. You then take a fresh speaker wire out of the ID Crossover woofer + and - and attach that to your new woofer.

5. Ypu then take a fresh speaker lead out of the ID Crossover Tweeter + and - and run that to the new woofer.

6. Tuck the ID crossover into the armrest and you should be on your way.

 

If there is one, it will be the 4".

The ID crossover will not fit in the door. It is way too big.

I think you meant run that to the new tweeter.

I going nowhere. If this scenario worked, I'd have been there.

For now, I think the only thing I can do is to connect the ID woofer to the 4" speaker wires and see how that does. I'm convinced I need to get an amp, but not yet sure which one...

 

yes i meant tweeter...sorry

You need to get the ID crossover into the mix...i have not seen the new crossover, but my guess it is similar in size to the old one?

Take the top and bottom plastic covers off and it will then fit inside the armrest of an 09 MCS...pry off the padded armrest an there is a ton of room in there.

 

Did someone already try it? The Focal 165A3 seems to be promoted as a high efficiency system that can be driven directly by standard headunits, and it would be even more efficient without its crossover in the path.

 

Didn't know you could take the crossovers apart. Thanks for the tip. Fits fine. Wrapped it in some of that foam matting stuff they sell for tool chests and steel workbenches so tools won't clatter.

Isn't everything promoted as "high efficiency"?

I recall reading here people commenting about Focals needing power, and when I asked Crutchfield for help selecting speakers, the guy recommended against using the Focals with the HIFI amp. After all, the fronts only get something like 20 watts. IIRC, the fronts get 20 and the rears 40.

 

I'll be installing a new set of speakers in my car... but it'll be DIY. Meaning I'll pick a tweeter that will fit on the 4" location, and a midwoofer to match.

The advantage is that the crossover will be mounted next to each speaker and will be small (2 components). So you'll probably be able to mount it next to the speaker.

Maybe this approach will be helpful to you. I'm calculating around $180 in parts before shipping.

 

MINI says HiFi has a 10-way 230w amp with 4 bass speakers at 40 watts (each), 2 mid speakers at 25 watts (each), and 4 trebles at 25 watts. So a 3-way speaker at a left or right front gets 71 watts (although I know you can't just add up the watts like that). In addition, crossovers are a major part of a speaker's power requirement but with the HiFi amp you wouldn't use the external crossovers (the speakers will require less power than they normally would).

What I'm getting at is that the HiFi amp probably has ample power to drive the Focals. The resulting sound will depend on some other factors, such as how well the crossover points of the speakers match with the built-in crossover points of the HiFi amp. Also the amplifier was designed to drive 2 ohm impedance stock speakers. Using a speaker with different impedance will affect the sound characteristics.

 

Maybe they'll work. I wonder how real those numbers are? Are they RMS and CEA compliant?

The Focal 165A3 are 4 ohm. I'm finding there isn't enough power in the HIFI amp to run 4 ohm Image Dynamic CXS64 V.2 speakers with a sensitivity of 91 dB. With 2 ohm Infinity Kappas in the left side, and the CXS64 in the right, the balance has to be all the way to the right for them to balance, and the volume has to be cranked. This is in a quiet garage.

 

The numbers are audio specs from an auto manufacturer. Enough said.

With or without external crossover, and do you have one on the Infinity's? Crossovers eat up some of the power.

 

Just finished a little more testing. Connected the CXS64 V.2* in the driver's door as miniSQ suggested. The ID crossover is in the armrest and connected to the 4" speaker wires (to get midrange). The tweeter is mounted on a black plex disc in the 4" location, and the 6.5" driver is in the lower location.

It takes a lot of cranking up to get to normal listening levels while sitting in the garage. At levels you would use to overcome road noise, it starts to distort. So, not workable.

Earlier, I had connected just the 6.5" woofer to the wires from the 6.5 location (no crossover). It produced nothing but bass. To me, this seems like a waste of a good 6.5" midrange driver. The rear 6x9s should be doing this, or better, a sub should be doing it.

*This is the 4 ohm version. I learned later that it is available as 2 ohm as well. That might be a better choice if trying to live with the HIFI amp.

 

Do you mean the coaxial speaker along with its crossover was connected only to the HiFi's mid signal? It doesn't seem like a good combination to me.

How was the output level when you connected the bass signal to the 6.5" driver with no crossover? I would try connecting the mid signal to the 6.5" driver with no crossover. If that actually sounds decent, the next step would be to use the tweeter in the A pillar, again with no crossover.

If you intend to keep using the HiFi amp, you should start with the assumption that the signals are already split into bass/mid/treble components, and that you'd connect them to appropriate drivers without additional crossovers.

 

This was something miniSQ suggested earlier in this thread. It was something I tried to help discover whether there was a good way to use hi-end 2-way component speakers with the HIFI amp.

Well, it was all bass. I don't really recall exactly how the level was. I was more concerned with figuring out how best to get midrange with these speakers.

I wasn't aware, until you mentioned, that crossovers ate power. I had tried the Kappas with and without crossovers at various times and never noticed a difference in volume.

If I were to keep experimenting, your suggestion of going straight to the 6.5" with the speaker wires from the upper door location would be worth trying. I'm getting a little weary of ripping door panels off. I need to use the car every so often...

I was doing this messing around to see just how necessary an aftermarket amp would be with these speakers. I've pretty much talked myself into it. Probably order tomorrow. See my thread on 4 Channel Amps.