Sorry to start a new thread on this topic, but there is so much varying info, so i wanted to focus on my specific issue.

Again I have the NON -hifi system and we replaced the front speakers in my 09 MCS today. we used some pretty high end Pioneer premier seperates and installed the included premier crossover.

We have not installed an aftermarket amp, and i am wondering before i do if i have pulled the most out of this install.

We removed both the factory woofer and the factory mid and put a tweeter where the mid was and a woofer where the woofer was and mounted the crossover in the door handle. We wired the speakers correctly and here is where my question is, and why i started a new topic hoping to get the audio guru's to chime in...

We connected the wire that "was" running to the factory woofer to the Crossover input. Is this correct? I have read a few different opnions, so i want to be sure.

Over all SQ is much better than i expected from the factory power....but the woofer is not really putting out as much bass as i think a $700 set of separates should. Its moving like crazy but not putting out much thump or detail.

I am sure we can play with polarity and see if we can't make it better, and ultimately i will probably add an external amp...but i just want to run this buy people to see if i need to connect a different set of speaker wires to the crossover input?



And, No i didn't pay $700 for the comps....

 

Is the woofer sealed to the door? Is the tweeter letting air escape out of the 4" hole? That would really mess up your bass.

 

Under-powering high end speakers will cause distortion and poor audio sound. Your wire connection is cool. Your components NEED more power than the stock 15 or so watts that might be going into them from the factory radio. Bump up to an aftermarket amp that can handle the RMS ratting on you component set. Also, don't expect to get crazy amounts of bass from your 5.25 / 6.5 woofer in the door. It's in a poor location and is not that acoustically friendly. If you want more/better bass in the car, go with better 6x9s in the rear. They sound amazing in there because they sit in an enclosure (the only good thing about the factory system). Cheers!

 

All very true. 6.5" speakers will not really produce low bass frequencies due to their size. They have an inherent rolloff that starts at about 80-100 hz and goes down log rhythmically from there. This is why they make subwoofers in large sizes liek 10" and 12", the larger the speaker cone the lower the frequency it can produce, the real only limit to the size is the pwoer required to drive each gets large as teh speaker gets larger.

There is one major problem with this suggestion. The head unit amplifier on the Non-HiFi has a frequency cut off below 100 haz at at least 12db per octive on the rear channels. This is why there is a thread on the subject of channel swaping the fronts for the rear. The one down side to this is that if you are using bluetooth the voices on the telephone will now come out of the rear speakers.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ust-do-it.html

 

I am pretty familiar with how much output to expect from a front midbass driver. A few that i have used in the past with decent results.
1. dynaudio 17w75
2. seas performance mid
3. image dynamic mid from the chameleon set

The difference here is that all of these have been using active high pass filters and external amplification, this is my first deck power install.

I understand F3 and while i don't know what the F3 of this driver is...i just think something is not quite right here....

From what i can tell there is no active or passive or software HP filter involved in the front speakers of the non hifi system from what everyone is saying....correct?

Yet it sounds to my ears when listening to just the fronts being faded all the way forward that there is a huge amount of music missing below 200hz. It is anemic sounding in the bass area...which leads the overall tonal balance to sound thin. I plan on adding a small powered bazooka tube or something to fill in the bottom freq's....but first i want to be sure i have maxed out the fronts.

I am sure adding an amp will help....but to be honest the speakers get plenty loud...and the tweet is very open and detailed...i am just missing lower midrange and lower bass....maybe i am just not used to listening to a system without a sub...

more listening to go on tomorrow...thanks for the advice and suggestions!!

 

just remember that the cabin size of the MINI is very small compared to many cars and this makes a large difference as well in the frequency response. especially at lower frequencies.

Although there is a slight down turn in the very low freqs on the front channels it is only about 2 db at 20hz and only about 0.2db at 30 HZ so it is not something that will really affect the sound out of a 6.5" speaker, they just cant really produce those frequencies well.

This is probably a combination of the size of the cabin and the speaker choice. Which speaker model did you go with?

 

I would think smaller would yield even more cabin gain???


Here are the model numbers:

MId: pioneer premier ts-m7prs
Tweeter: ts-t3prs
Crossover: ud-n2prs

ON a side note i am going to add a bazooka tube on saturday to see if that makes it all better. 30 years in car audio and this is my first venture into pioneer and bazooka...

 

for the most part this is true except that when you get to small bass frequencies are compromised dramatically. To test this theory make all the 20-30 hz bass adjustments with the windows of the MINI open. Take level measurements. Then close the windows and take the same measurements and you will find the bass has an unexpected roll off.


The TS-M7PRS are designed for Kick Space locations and are thus designed for a very small box volume of 0.175 cubic feet. Being used in a door where the box size is 3 cubic feet with lots of openings means these are now running as almost free air speakers. With the very small box of 0175 CuFt the base response is down to about 30 hz at -2 db. Acceptable to Pioneer. But when putting them in a large box as is done with door installation they will only get down to about 120 hz before hitting a 2db rolloff and down to probably 10db rolloff at 50 hz.

Setting the bazooka for a cut off of about 120-130 hz should bring in the sound for you.

 

Thanks ...this is my first venture into both a small enclosed vehicle and not using a trunk. so i am in very uncharted waters here...

That confirms what i am hearing....i may look at replacing the woofers with my spare set of Seas performance mids..or using door pods.

Thanks....any thoughts to whether the 6" or the 8" bazooka will blend better in the mini? I have the ability to try both...

 

couple of pics showing off the install skills of my brother!!!.

1. the crossover mounted in the door handle ( i swear he came up with this idea on his own without knowing that a few others here have chosen this same location).
2. the woofer in the door panel.
3. Custom made tweeter mounting plate...he will make one for anyone here...took awhile so it won't be cheap :-)

You can also see on the first pic the tweeter has some foam around the outer ring...this is either to help with dispersion the way it is done in the wilson watt/puppy combination for 30k dollars....

or it is so the gold frame of the tweeter doesn't peek thru the speaker grill

 

NIce pics. Lucky you that you had a crossover that fit somewhere in the door. The ones for the Focals I put in are way to big for that.

As for the Bazooka. IMHO neither will blend with the car visually. I would rather see a hidden unit of some sort. But sound wise the 8" would probably do you better.

 

Not to nitpick, but the foam doesn't help with dispersion - it stops diffraction effects. But considering everything that surrounds the tweeter, the foam effect will be close to null...

 

I was joking around....the foam was just a quick fix because the tweeter ring was gold tone and it showed thru the speaker grill

With the foam it didn't show thru......

 

I think the bazooka is a stop gap....just somethign fast and cheap to stick in there while i decide what to do. It will take a few hours to run all the wires and then i can just connect the tube and be done.
Ultimately i would build a false floor that housed a woofer and a amp, but that should be done with fiberglass to keep the weight down and i don't have time right now for that.

 

I noticed in the head unti sound controls that there is something called s-vol???

Its the last adjustable setting, right after the "bong" setting....

Is this like a input sensitive adjustment?

 

Whenever you accelerate, the system raises the volume in order to cover the engine/exhaust noise. This adjustment is just how "extreme" you want the volume change to be.

Also, if you want to get some ideas on systems, take a look at my setup. It sounds GREAT!

 

Thanks ....that makes sense....any advice on what is a good setting? I would say that less is more here, i don't want the volume moving around on me while i'm driving.

Where can i see your set-up? Your gear list looks very impressive. Is it the link where you ask people to look at your set up and ask questions? I think i saw that last week..i will go look for it.

thanks!!!

 

I have my s-vol set to 6 which is the max and i actually like the fact that it does a very good job at adjusting the volume during speed changes.

Many people that have riden in the car have aasked if there ws anyway to get thier cars to do the same thing

Of course this is my opinion and others absolutely hate this feature, and set it to zero so that it does not change the volume.

 

See, I actually hate that it increases the volume... that's just me though... And you can see the setup here, here and here.

 

Well the Bazooka powered sub did not work out so great...seems that the speaker level out voltage is just too low to drive even the 6" tube. The 8 was not much better...and this is with both the crossover set to the highest (whatever that is...no documentation from bazooka) and the input sensitivity is pegged clockwise...(again no clue where that is either).

Listening to a cd with HEAVY bass can get the sub moving, but most stuff doesn't even touch it.

There must be bass in this mini somewhere...i just need to go out and find it.

 

It sounds as if you have used teh rear channel outputs on your standard system to drive the bazooka. if this is the case then this is exactly what will happen as they have a 100Hz and below cut off of at least 12 db per octave.

If you use the front channels for driving the bazooka you should have no problem getting base out of it just as many others here have.

 

We used the fronts...i did get a ton of bass when playing bass heavy disks....but on stuff like john cougar or john hiatt that should have plnty of tight kick drum...it was almost silent.

now i am considering the Basslink 2 and the expansion amplifier...but with a david navone LOC and a Phoenix Gold EQ215IX that i used in my last install with GREAT results.
I just need to verify that the AUX RCA outputs on the PG will be EQ'd because i am not quite sure how the Basslink2 and amp combo accept RCA signals. If the BL@ wil take my Low pass RCA and the expansion amp will takethe HI pass RCA than it seems like a nice solution.

 

Would a JL Clean Sweep help out? It levels the freq responce for all 4 channels so when you connect from the X0031 plug to you amp everything is flat.

 

I must disagree, the speaker size to frequency thing is a myth. I had 4 6.5" elemental designs EU-700 in a box tuned to 30 hz. that most people thought was a pair of 15's. frequency is mostly dependent on the enclosure and partially on the speaker, that is a fact. My stock Mini amp pushing MB quart 6.5s in the door will do 120db at 40hz on music. (tested it tonight)

This was not meant as an attack but that is one of my pet peeves since I have been installing (over 20 years now)
here is a pic of the 4 6.5's as mentioned. It was in a 93 Celica.

 

I am 99% sure i am going to order a pair of Trio 8's from CSS and do some fiberglassing

Just waitin on an email back from CSS.