I want to upgrade my speakers, but I want to keep the stock head unit. I do not want an amp, unless it is absolutely necessary. I do not want to add subs, I do not like bass you can feel; I want to feel the car, not the music.

Front:
Infinity KAPPA 60.9CS 6.5"
component system
power range: 2-90 watts RMS (270 watts peak power)
Impedance: 2 ohms; "viewed as 4ohm by HU, claims Infinity"
sensitivity: 93 dB
External crossover


Rear:
Infinity KAPPA 692.9I 6"x9"
2-way speakers
power range: 2-110 watts RMS (330 watts peak power)
Impedance: 2 ohms "viewed as 4ohm by HU, claims Infinity"
sensitivity: 96 dB
Built in crossover

 

Do you know what the impedance is for the stock speakers? I know that the Harmon/Kardon system uses 2-Ω speakers, but they're being driven by the H/K amp, not the head unit, so I don't know if the standard Boost radio uses 2-Ω or 4-Ω speakers.

If the stock head unit by itself can safely drive 2-Ω speakers, then that's the way to go. The Kappas are good speakers and pretty darned efficient (95 dB at one watt & one meter), so you should be able to drive them to adequate levels even with the built-in head unit amp.

 

I herad somewhere in the forum that the stock speakers are 4ohm, but the website for Infinity has this to say:

-----------
True Four Ohms— All Kappa speakers feature two ohm voice coils. Original factory-installed speaker wiring in many cars is 18-22 gauge. This wire, and heating in the voice coil when power is applied, increase the impedance “seen” by the amplifier or head unit. The impedance of Kappa Speakers has been adjusted to compensate for this increase and can be safely driven by any head unit.
-----------

I'm inclined to trust them.

What about the watts? Peak is only for earsplitting, right?

 

nabeshin- although it's MUCH easier to install the coaxials like the
one you show, i recommend you do separates. the imaging is not
nearly as clear as when the tweeters are closer to your ears.

 

What Infinity is basically saying is that "our speakers are only 2-Ω, but the connecting wiring in your car is probably so crappy that the combination of speaker and wiring will appear to be a 4-Ω load to your stereo". The part about impedance changing when you heat the speaker's voice coil is true for any speaker, not just factory speakers. Still, if they're claiming it will work even with head units designed for 4-Ω speakers, you'll probably be okay, especially since it doesn't sound like you're going to be playing the stereo full-blast.

As for the power, it's possible to get poor sound if you drive an inefficient speaker with too little power, but at 95 dB/W-m, the Kappas should work fine with your stock stereo. The lower end of the power range is only 2 Watts, and your stock stereo puts out a good more than that.

 

I saw something on Infinity's website about ideal speaker location, and it listed our car's set up as one of the worse. The best would be both speakers down low in the kick plate. Am I just falling for marketing? I trust what you are saying though. If I do that, I could get the Infinity Perfects, the ones with aluminum cones, but then I'd need an amp.

 

The reason that kick-panel installations can work so well is that it can help equalize the distance from your head to the speakers. Look where your speakers are now. See how much closer you're sitting to the left speakers compared to the right speakers? If you don't have some method of time-correcting the speakers, that can cause imaging and phasing problems. So yes, I'd have to agree with Infinity that mounting the speakers in the doors, especially with the tweeters high in the doors, is probably the worst possible location. (Actually, I guess mounting the speakers in the B-pillars would be even worse, but thankfully no one does that).

Considering that the interior of a car is a pretty lousy listening room to begin with, I don't know how much of a difference you'd notice in the car between coaxial speakers and component speakers.

 

Thank you for such great information, ScottRiqui. You too, kenchan. I still have to weigh cost into the decision, but it is nice to know that the difference would be slight.

I have my stereo set up balance/fade-wise such that the sound is centered around me. I closed my eyes and adjusted it so it seems centered to me. If I remember right, it's been awhile since I adjusted it, it's shifted left and forward.

 

Unfortunately, the balance/fader controls can only adjust the relative *volume* between the speakers - they can't time-correct the signal to compensate for unequal distances between the speakers and your head.

As an example, let's say that you're playing a 280 Hz musical note (slightly above "Middle C" on a piano keyboard), and you have two speakers, one of which is 2 feet further away from your ears than the other speaker. That 2-foot difference is almost exactly half the wavelength for a 280 Hz note, so the sound from the two speakers will be almost perfectly out-of-phase when it reaches your ears, causing cancellation. And the difference doesn't have to be exactly a half-wavelength for cancellation to occur - that's just when it's the worst. As a result, there's a wide variety of frequencies that will be partially or totally canceled if you're not the same distance from all of your speakers.

Now in a car, you have four (or six, or ten) speakers all over the place, plus reflected echoes, so the cancellation won't be quite as obvious, but it's still there, and it can make the overall sound "muddy" and make it sound as if not all of the instruments/voices are coming from the same place. This is why the competition stereo systems that focus on sound quality and imaging tend to have fewer speakers, rather than more speakers.

Again, putting coaxial speakers in the stock locations will probably sound just fine, but if you ever have a chance to listen to a system where all of the signals have been properly time-aligned to account for different path lengths to the various speakers, the difference is night and day.

 

Come to think of it, some new Audis have Bose systems that have some kind of special technical stuff to it. I didn't understand what they said, but I got to listen to the system at a car show back in January. Best sounding audio system I've ever heard.

 

nabeshin- they weren't infinity's but on my MCS i originally had the
Polk 525's in the front which were coaxials. it sounded soso and the clarity
was just not there. the tweeter was too low near my foot.

so later i opted for some Polk 5250 which are separates and the difference
is HUGE. although my stereo doesnt sound nearly as nice as some of
you audiophile guys, it sounds nice enough for me. i have 5250, stock
rear speakers, and a BassLink in the boot. stock HU.

 

Does the Infinity BassLink function as the amp for the rest of the system too? I don't want thumping bass, but would like rounded out music. I see from your site, kenchan, that you have the BassLink in with the rear seats and trunk cover. Does that effect sound a lot? I don't have my rear seats or that cover. I've heard that subs need an enclosed box to work right.

 

The amplifier in the Basslink is only to drive the subwoofer, and you can adjust the volume of the subwoofer amp to your own taste. Also, the Basslink box *is* the vented enclosure for the subwoofer, so you don't need to further enclose it in a sealed trunk or anything like that.

 

I'm such an audio n00b. Funny, I fancy myself an audiophile. My computer sound system is really good, and I have really nice headphones for my mp3 player, I just thought it was time I got my car up to the sound quality I wanted.

 

^^ yep, scott's correct on that info.


i have the basslink in the boot behind the seats. i always have my rear
seats upright... yes, it does affect the bass response. the rear seat/boot
area acts as the subwoofer's cabin/cavity to reproduce the sound.

the Basslink comes with a remote volume control so you can play with
the level of bass you want from the driver's seat and it also has a low
freq EQ to contour your center bass frequency. it's a nice unit.

 

I might have to upgrade in stages. I'll start with the front speakers, then the rear, then add a basslink, then maybe an amp for the other speakers - unless that needs to come sooner.

 

That's a wise plan - upgrading the stock speakers will make the biggest difference for the least amount of money. I really think you'll like a small powered subwoofer as well (Basslink or similar).

If you add the powered sub, and install "bass blockers" on your four interior speakers so that they're not having to reproduce the very low bass notes, you may even find that the stock head unit is more than adequate for the interior speakers and that you don't need an additional amp.

 

Do you have anymore information on bass blockers? I'll try google, however, I enjoy sharing information amoung enthusiasts.

Ok, there seem to be many kinds of bass blockers, which Hz range would be best? I'm sorry for all of this. The people at Best Buy seemed annoyed I didn't do much research before asking them questions.

 

"Bass blockers" are basically just high-pass filters that prevent your interior speakers from playing low notes that your subwoofer should be handling. It can prevent rattling/booming in the door panels under high volume, and your interior speakers can play higher frequencies more cleanly and accurately if the cone isn't slamming back and forth trying to play the low notes.

One word of caution - most bass blockers are rated for use with four-ohm speakers. You can use them with 2-ohm speakers, the cutoff frequency will be twice as high as what they're rated for. For instance, if you bought blockers with a 120 Hz / 4 Ω rating, they would actually block everything under about 240 Hz when used with 2 Ω speakers.

I'd go with the lowest cutoff frequency you can find, considering that your 2 Ω speakers will double the cutoff frequency. If you pick a frequency that's too high, you may run into problems where there will be frequencies that neither your subwoofer nor your interior speakers will be playing.

 

I'm thinking the same way when I decide to upgrade my soundsystem. Twos specs I will pay close attention to will be, Sensitivity and Dynamic Range.

I plan to try to get the best combination of highest possible Sensitivity and Widest Dynamic Range.

 

Thank you, scottriqui. You must be some kind of electrical engineer or audio technician.

 

[SIZE=3][SIZE=2]I've heard the MINI Digital Sound Modul is better than the H/K System. But I have no first hand experience with it.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

 

I've heard both, and the DPSM sounds better than the H/K system, but I don't think it's worth the extra $1500 over the H/K. The single biggest improvement on the DPSM is that it has a larger amp. The H/K amp is pretty marginal, power-wise (on my convertible, I'd go so far as to say it's underpowered).

The speakers for the DPSM are still paper-cone speakers, and they use the same speaker sizes/locations as stock. You don't even get a subwoofer with the system.

If you look at the frequency response curve for the base stereo and the DPSM, they're both equally-bad. The DPSM can just go louder without distortion. On the H/K system, if you set the BASS or TREBLE settings anywhere above half-way, the system reduces the overall system maximum volume significantly in order to keep the speakers from distorting.

 

You're welcome. My undergraduate degree is in engineering, and I'm halfway through a master's degree in Applied Physics right now, so I've had a LOT of electrical engineering courses, but most of what I know about audio has come from playing with it, researching it, and building systems for 25 years.

But I admit, having a strong physics/engineering background goes a LONG way toward understanding why/how things work and how to solve challenges, and evaluating manufacturers' claims.

 

nabeshin- i noticed you are planning to change the rear speakers as well.
when i tried this route: 5250 separates on the front 525 coax on the rear + basslink the sound was too tinny. MUCH too much treble.

so might be wise (?) to not use a tweeter on the rear speakers, or have
a way to cut it down significantly.

in summary, im using: front (5250 separates), rear (stock), BassLink

hey, that girl in your sig moved! who is she?