Total disappointment... but it's pretty much my fault.

Without a doubt, the HK is worth the $550 bucks, but only IF you are used to typical standard factory sound in a vehicle.
I drove down to Checkered Flag MINI down the street yesterday, and brought my 12 disc from my trunk. (My MINI is still enroute to me). They had an S sitting on the lot with the HK in it, and I fired it up and put it through it's paces. I even set it up according to a few peoples recommendations on previous threads.

First off, it was immediately noticable that it would need a good dose of dynamat or other materials to stop the rattles and buzz. Secondly, I had it all the way up and there was a total lack of volume! It did sound pretty good, and the bass was pretty nice considering there was no Sub..and the clarity was great, even at high volume.

Basically, My salesman had me convinced it was the best thing since sliced bread (Yeah, I've seen that billboard too), but coming from a pioneer system in my 1996 Thunderbird with Pioneer REV series 6x8 2 way speakers and 2 pioneer 12" Subs in the trunk with 1400 watts of total system power... it was quickly apparent that what I had in the T-Bird far exceeded what the MINI could ever hope to offer from the factory.

So be on the lookout for an HK system for sale in the next few months! I'm all about sound quality, especially at a good volume (I DO NOT blare my system for others to hear!) and I'm positive I won't be happy with the sound until I get the whole system sorted out... which in the end, is good! I LOVE shopping for new stuff for my car!

 

And if you get a successful and BETTER (not just louder) aftermarket install, let us know all about it. My HK just went back in after a terrible time with Tweeter attempting to put in something better!

 

I don't have much doubt a good system that's well matched and thought out will be Better, and louder. Quality is very important to these ears! and I'm sure that it will cost me quite a bit more than the HK to do it... my initial estimates are 2k in parts, and about 500 in install costs.

I'm fortunate enough to work at a dealership, and our mobile provider is great at taking care of us with any needs.

It'll be months... rest assured I'll tell all when it happens.

 

Look. I had a MC for a year with the standard stereo, and it was OK at best. With my 2 month old MCS, I have the H/K, and I really like it. I have never been a car stereo geek, though I am somewhat of an amateur audiophile. Let me say, for the record, that this stereo gets plenty loud, sounds very clean in the "Instrumental" mode, and nicely deep and high in the H/K mode. I don't see what all the gripes are. No, this is not a system for soundbombing. If you are actually looking to cause hearing damage to yourself and your passengers, the H/K probably won't cut it. If that's what you want, please look elsewhere, but this is a very nice upgrade to the stock system that I think is fairly priced.

 

(I DO NOT blare my system for others to hear!)


Did you miss that part? My current system in the Thunderbird's volume goes to 30...and it's clean all the way up, and that volume level is WAY too loud for me... it's beyond obnoxious.

My complaint is that when the HK is at full volume, I'd compare it to 10 on the Thunderbird volume level... That's 1/3!!!

If you lived anywhere near me, I'd invite you right over to compare extensivley between the 2.

 

Chitown_COOP,
I originally had three complaints about the HK:

1.
Unexciting HU (eg: no display of CD time, etc). Not an audio issue at all but I enjoy being in my MINI and little things like this make a difference for me.

2.
Front sound stage - I am used to hearing a full range of sound from all speaker positions; I did not like the HK setup where the rears are bass only. But having heard Tweeters alternative, I like the HK much more these days!

3.
Lack of volume with the windows down at speed - more than once doing 50-60 I have maxed out the volume.
There do seem to be issues with the HK max volume; I think its max level is loud enough with loud source material ... some CDs will be perfectly loud, others might be encoded with some headroom so that the max level is 3db lower (half?) and the HK will then not have enough volume to please everyone.


On my Kenwood HU, to match the level between the Kenwood Keg and the built in CD player, I must lower the CD volume by about 6db! Equivalent to about 8 stops on the volume (which goes from 0-40). This encoding level is apparently a significant issue ...

 

>>Total disappointment... but it's pretty much my fault.
>>Secondly, I had it all the way up and there was a total lack of volume!
>>I'm all about sound quality, especially at a good volume (I DO NOT blare my system for others to hear!)

I have a mid-Jan build MCS with the HK system. My HK gets loud enough to annoy other cars on the road. I wonder if they've changed the settings since the first ones were installed. I can have my windows down and sunroof open while travelling down the freeway at 75 MPH and I can still hear the full spectrum of sound when at volumn. So I know my particular HK system is plenty loud.

If you do not "blare your system for others to hear", the HK should be a good choice and I'm really now bamboozled as to the volumn not getting loud enough for you to hear...

Happy Motoring!

 

>>If you do not "blare your system for others to hear", the HK should be a good choice and I'm really now bamboozled as to the volumn not getting loud enough for you to hear...
>>
>>Happy Motoring!

Hmm.. I guess that did come across as perplexing. I guess what I mean is, I enjoy it nice and loud, but I don't do so for the "benefit" of others outside my car. My windows are generally up, and in any residential areas, or anywhere near where I'll be stopping, the volume is down to a level where you can only hear it in the car, not outside.

<<2.
Front sound stage - I am used to hearing a full range of sound from all speaker positions; I did not like the HK setup where the rears are bass only.>>

I'd have to agree on this point

<<I wonder if they've changed the settings since the first ones were installed>>

Considering the history of mid year and mid month changes, i'd say this is likely. I also noticed plenty of difference between the source of the music, radio vs. CD, some CD's much louder than others. Is there a Source Level Adjustment I'm unaware of perhaps?

 

No source level adjustment on the stock HU ...

I have MP3GAIN balancing all the CDs I am transferring from original disc to Keg; it shows adjustments from +6dB to -3dB (ie: a 9dB range over the CDs in my collection).
So if the HK is set up to give loud volume with a CD at the loud end of the CD spectrum (ie: configured so that maximum possible HU output is a certain speaker level) then a "quiet" CD at 9dB lower will be MUCH quieter.


With my aftermarket HU feeding the HK amp, I can play around with the level being fed into the HK amp and the volume setting of the HK amp (as controlled by the factory HU) ... I expect to be able to get more volume out of it (depending at what level it starts to distort).
F15E ... by the time your car arrives, maybe I will have some measurements that could be useful to you.

 

>>F15E ... by the time your car arrives, maybe I will have some measurements that could be useful to you.
>>
Thanks Ian... I appreciate that. So you have an aftermarket headunit that is hooked up to the HK amp and speakers? My understanding of the HK system is the DSP settings were all actually run from the amp itself, not the head unit. So does that mean you picked a setting and then disconnected your old HU?

 

I was wondering if just installing a new head unit provides better sound quality and lounder volume. If so, what would be some recommendations. Thanks a lot

 

>>Thanks Ian... I appreciate that. So you have an aftermarket headunit that is hooked up to the HK amp and speakers? My understanding of the HK system is the DSP settings were all actually run from the amp itself, not the head unit. So does that mean you picked a setting and then disconnected your old HU?
>>
Sadly not that simple

The HK amp will not power up unless it can communicate with the factory HU! So I wired power and the communication signal between the HK amp and HU:


In the place where the HK amp originally fitted, I had installed my Keg so the pic shows the amp & HU laying in the trunk - temporarily (or so I thought)!
Now I plan to relocate the Keg to the other side of the trunk, re-install the HK amp in its original position, and run longer wires to the HU which I hope to install under one of the seats.

So the factory HU volume, bass, treble, balance, fade and H/K mode all control the HK amp. In addition of course the new HU volume and other adjustments control the sound!
You can get the same level of sound with the new HU at a loud volume and the factory HU set to a low volume, or the other way round - I need to experiment to see which combination of volume settings works best.

I do believe that the sound is better with the new HU driving the HK amp - am I imagining it or does the supposedly better quality aftermarket unit still give a better sound even through the factory HK amp!?
I used to dislike the front sound stage - I tried the "SPATIAL" setting but it sounded very poor. Now with the aftermarket HU I use this setting all the time and love it.


I realize that I am doing something "naughty" with the HK system. But at the moment it sounds great - MUCH better than Tweeters efforts. If I can get the system installed tidy and still sounding as good as it is today, I will not not need any aftermarket amp or speakers.

 

So, sifting through all that... am I to understand that you have the aftermarket HU in the dash where it belongs, and it is providing the source material for the amp, but all other settings, etc... are coming from the stock HU? In other words, you have 2 headunits???

I'd just presume install an all new system all round...

 

F15E,
You presume correctly. Obviously the new HU controls all have their correct effect. But the factory HU also still affects the sound via the HK amp.

My original plan *was* to replace the HK amp and speakers also (MB Quarts and BA amp) but after so much Tweeter trouble, engine whine, poorer sound quality, etc, I am choosing to stay with HK amp/speakers.
Here discusses more of the Tweeter troubles.
I hope your HK replacement goes better than mine ...

 

Just to get in another two cents...

I recall reading past info/reviews about the H/K regarding the use of the rear speakers as Subs only, and I would like to point out that my May-build MCS with the H/K does NOT use rear speakers exclusively as subs. I asked the dealer to confirm this, and they said that the newer H/Ks are not set up that way.

Also, I can't help but wonder if the newer H/Ks are louder. I was really perplexed at the "not loud enough" posts, since mine seems to be capable of ear-bleeding loudness even during a quiet piano concerto.

With MINIs history of constantly tweaking things, even in mid-model-years, it makes you wonder how drastically they may have altered the H/K's set up in the past year and a half....

 

Well, I am pleased to report that the HK in my car was NOTHING like the HK in the car on the lot. I'm guessing they changed something, or that car is defective!

The volume is still a bit low, but still louder than the one i heard on the lot... it's enough for these ears. Clarity is great! No door buzzing, no rattling... I love it basically. I just miss my 12 disc changer! I'm debating on getting a changer or adding Sirius.

Anyhow, wanted ya'll to know.

 

What "mode" do you choose for listening?
There are significant differences in the sound in different modes (compare for example INSTRUMENTAL and ELECTRONIC). I wonder if that is why the previous car sounded so different?

 

couple responses to F15 and Chitown:

the HK uses the rear speakers as subs in some modes only, and as broadband in others.

Some people have reported that they find the volume of the HK way too low. This did surprise me, since I have not been able to crank mine up to full volume yet, it would have been simply too painful.

Your observation F15 of the comparison between the lot car and your own would support what some have thought: that there are some problems with some HK units, either they are defective, improperly installed, or improperly adjusted.

On mine the volume is higher than on any other car stereo I have ever had myself, and enough to be painful. BTW, my car was one of the earlier ones with HK with a Dec 02 build date.

M.

 

I vary between electronic and mini hk.. i dislike other dsp settings as I feel it doesn't represent the music the way it was intended. The volume is loud enough, but not nearly enough to qualify as painful...