Hey ppls!!

Hmmm...I just joined this forum because i have a lot of question to ask about upgrading the stereo on the mini. I did a lot of searchin on the forum about it but i just don't really seem to understand it cuz I serisouly KNOW NUTTHING ABOUT car stereo...I would go in to a car shop and ask..but i am afraid they will jib me off...so i know its safe here

So my question is...

What is require if i want to upgrade the front speakers on the Mini R56? Cuz i am planning to add a sub...so mind as well add some new speakers...But is addin front speakers a HUGE construction? Although i will be takin it to a car shop...but i would like to know before hand what i am lookin in to...

So basically my quesiton is...What Do i need? To upgrade sub, front speaker ? Cuz i will need to get all the equipment before goin in to the car shop.... Thank You so much!!!!!

 

First off, welcome to NAM, glad you're here.

Second off, great job finding the right place to post your question.

Thirdly, at the top of each sub forum is usually a thread or two labeled "sticky." These are threads that answer common questions we see a lot, so we don't have to keep answering the same questions over and over again for each new member. The second thread in this sub-forum is labeled "R56 speaker replacement" and it pretty much covers everything you could ever want to know about putting new speakers in your Mini. Give it a read and you should be set, if not, you should have only a few very specific questions left which we will happily answer. I know it's a lot of reading, but your answers really are already there.

 

Okay so i read the 9pg of discussion...but still in a blur..

So i understand that i need a 5.25" speaker either 2 way or 3 way, that is 4 ohms ( i have the non HIFI) and with a seperate crossover?

and about tweeter...I don't know what that is..Am I supose to change that too?

Is there another brand/model recommandation beside Focal since they are really $$$$

Also how many channel + watt of amp do i need for the front speakers and the sub?

I feel like a loser...but i rather be a loser then waste money and bought something wrong...so any help will be much appreciate!!

Thank you!!

 

haha...

Thats why i stick to engine and cosmetic mods.. Car audio stuff just flies right over my head. Not that i dont appreciate a nice sounding system, there is just toooooo much to learn and just another facet of the car that sucks money away.

 

Find a quality, mobile sound retailer, in your area, such as Tweeter or Hi Fi Buys, do some research, try to stay away from the Circuit City's and the Best Buy's. The good shops will get you the correct info. Yes, Focal is expensive, but it is the best.

 

Yup definitly staying away from Best Buys and Futureshop (canada) ...those ppl have no idea what they ar talkin about haha...they **** me off when i hear them describing LCD tvs to older folks...

have any of you guys try POLK MOMO? I seriously can not afford Focals at this moment...So is there another cheaper suggestion? Or I should just stick with stock speakers? Thanks!!

 

ckzzz -

You seem to be asking for the fairly basic information so as t arm yourself when you make your purchasing decision, and none of the posters appear to answer your question, so I will attempt to give you a quesions. Please understand that I drive an R53 will H/K, so I am hesitant to offer specific recommendations.

You appear to have at least some knowledge. You know that your want to upgrade your speakers and amplifier, which are good first choices.

First, let's talk about amplifiers. Amplifiers take low voltage music signals and them to higher voltage, higher powers signals which feed speakers. In your case, the stock radio (or HeadUnit) has a small built-in amplifier. While some are satisfied with simply replacing the speakers and using this built-in amplifier, I believe you will find it inadequte to drive higher quality speakers. And, since you plan on adding a subwoofer, a separate amp will be necessary, at least for that speaker. Thus, I think you have two options:
(1) You can add separate amps (one or two, depending upon your choice) to drive all your speakers and your new sub.
(2) You can add one amp just to drive your sub and run the remaining speakers off your HU's built-in amp
Although (1) is clearly the best option, it is the more expensive one (depending upon the model of the amp). Many people appear to be satisfied with a setup like (2), it will keep your cost lower, and you can always upgrade to a second amp in the future.

Now, let's discuss crossovers (some would say a bit out of order). In any given piece of music material, there will be many different sound frequencies. For example, cymbals and high voices, medium voices and guitars, and large drums and bass guitars. These each prodice different frequencies (this is why speakers have different components, like tweeters, woofers, and midranges, either separately or in one unit, like a coaxial). A music signal coming from your HU will contain many different frequencies at a given time, and no speaker can produce all frequencies well. Thus, a crossover takes a single music signal a separates it by frequency range, sending the appropriate frequency range to the appropriate speaker. For example, a three-way crossway will take once signal and separate it into three ranges, commonly referred to as highs (about 800 Hz and up), mids (150 Hz to 800 Hz), and low (150 Hz and down). Down get stuck on these numbers--they are just general references. There are basically two types of crossovers: active and passive. An active crossover is separate powered and fits in the the signal chain before the amps, so that signals going to the amps are already split up. Passive crossovers are just the opposite: they go after the amps have already boosted the signals. As a general matter, active crossovers are used in higer-end systems, especially since most amps these days have crossovers built in. In your case, this feature is very helpful. Let's say you go with two-amp option, one to drive your subwoofer and the other to drive the other speakers. Well, you subwoofer is a special speaker and is only intended to reproduce the lowest frequencies. An amp with a built-in crossover will allow you to connect the amp to a full range signal (like the one from your HU) and cancel out the the high frequencies. Conversely, you can set the crossover in your second amp to send the other speakers only the mid and high frequencies. I hope this is clear.

Now, let's get down to the speakers themselves, where the rubber really meets the road. As I mentioned, there are basically three types of frequency ranges: highs, mids, lows (you can also add "very lows" to this for subwoofers). This would roughly correspond to the following types of speakers, respectively: tweeters, midranges, mid basses (and subwoofers). Most speaker systems include speakers (either separate units or built in a single unit) that cover the highs and the mids, and the lows to some extent. For example, and two-way component system will combine a four speakers (two for each side of the car) and will include two tweeters for the highs and two midrange/midbass drivers which reproduce the mids and some of the lows. Another option is a three-way systems, which as you can probably guess, includes six total speakers (three for each side). Three-ways are very much the same as two-ways, except that three-ways split the mid frequencies between two separate speakers, a midrange and a midbass. As I understan it, the R56 can accomodate a three-way system, but they are generally more expensive and not necessarily worth the extra cost in your case. It should also be noted that all two- and three-ways include passive crossovers to split up the signals to the various speakers as described above. As an alternative to component systems, you should also consider systems that combine tweeters and midranges in a single unit, called coaxials. Many people will discourage you from this, but a great coaxial can sound better than a relatively cheap component system, and potentially save you some money. A good installer will be able suggest (and audition) various component and coaxial systems for you, and further explain the advantages and disadvantages of both. This leaves us with just the subwoofer. There are so many options available, so I will not get that far into it. Some things to consider are:
(1) subwoofers always carry power and size requirements. Make sure that your wallet and your MINI can accommodate both.
(2) Try to balance your system. Unless your a dedicated basshead, there's no need to invest in a large subwoofer and 1,000 watts of power if your remaining speakers will be using your HU for power.
(3) consider pre-manfactured subbass products. There are a whole host of small, moderately powered, and relatively inexpensive products and produce solid (yet not overdone) bass and combine everything you need within a single device (i.e., speaker, amp, crossover, enclosure). Give these a listen before you commit.

Wow, that was a mouthful, but at least something to get you started. I know I left a bunch out, but perhaps other knowledgeable posters will be able fill in my gaps. Again I hope this helps

 

Hey ChillSpot~

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL UR INFO!!!!!!!! My head is a lot more clear now So if i want to add 2 amps (1 for sub 1 for speakers), do i need one that is Mono and one with 2 chanel? and if i did option 2 and just went with 1 amp, do i find one with 4 channels for the speakers and sub?

Once again i just want to say thank you for all the help you guys have offer me with !! I can't wait till i get all the stuff!! hahaha

 

ckzzz-

Great, I'm glad I was able to help. As far as how many amps depends upon your overall system design, and whether you want to do it all at once or in stages. However, this is how I would answer your questions generally. You will definitely require separate amplification for your subwoofer, unless you go with an "all-in-one" option that I referenced earlier. An amplifier dedicated to driving your subwoofer can be either a two-channel or a mono version, depending upon your specific subwoofer. What I would do is choose a sub that you like based upon your listening and constraints, and then select an amplififer that will work well with your sub choice (a good installer can help with your options). If you chose to separately amplify your remaining speakers also, you again have more options. You are correct that you need 4 channels (unless you only want to amplify the front speakers and let the rears run off the HU). Because the options are so many, it is probably best for me to outline them:
(1) One four channel amp to run all four speakers + one mono (or two channel) amp to run a subwoofer
(2) One four channel amp, two channels to run the front speakers and two channels to run the subwoofer (with the rear speakers running off the HU)
(3) One four channel amp ro drive the four main speakers, and invest in a separate subwoofer and amplifier at a later date.
(4) One five/six channel amp, with channels 1-4 driving the main speakers, and the remaining channel(s) to drive a subwoofer.
(5) One mono or two-channel amp to drive a subwoofer, with the main speakers running off the HU.
Again, which option to choose depends upon your preferences, limitations, and of course your budget.

 

just so those who hated on me in another thread are clear, I did not create this thread

 

Hey ~

Just want to say thank you for the help u guys give me!! reli appriciate it!! I can't wait till i get all the stuff and upgrade it!! Thank You!!!

 

Chilisport, good primer on car audio.
I'm curious on your thoughts, and others too, on just upgrading from the stock speakers. From back in my day, that was the key improvement, even before adding/changing amps. Do you think that holds today? I was looking to upgrade the stereo on my Jag and every installer wanted to change out the head unit first, not an agreeable cosmetic option for me in the Jag nor is it in the Mini. Then they wanted to add amp(s) even before swapping out speakers. Thoughts?

 

I think swapping speakers gives you the most bang for the buck with the HIFI system. I don't have any experience with the standard system.

It is my suspicion that spending $300-$400 on speakers gets you more than half way to a $3,000+ system.

 

So we are clear I think everyones advice has been great, just wan to add my $.02. Upgrading car audio is a slippery slope. You always find there is ALWAYS something that must be done next. First you get speakers now you need an amp. Get a sub and an amp to push it. Ground wiring and and head units. Ported or sealed sub encloser. What the question is, what your intentions? Do you want to go to competitions? Do you want to impress that guy/girl down your street? Do you want something that just sounds good? Do you want to go deaf? I had a 200sx sentra with 2 10" Sol beric in a ported box, 1 gauge wiring kit, 1 frd power cap, 1 1 chn amp 1000w true power, 1 4 chn amp 500w true power, 2 jla 6x9s, 2 jla 5' mids+1' highs w/ crossovers, alpine head unit with 3 rca outs, 4 6" monitors, 1 ps2, I pod adapter, full car Dyna matt w/additional memory foam, remote start, viper alarm, and a yellow top spiral cell battery. This system was so loud but i was driving it in a sentra. I has to spend a month with silicone plugging up rattles. Sometimes less is more, if you like it get some middle of the way speakers don't let some one bully you into buying something just because its cool or new. Get a game plan to gather and create a budget for your self. You will find real quickly what you NEED and what you just WANT. Good luck and post later what you ended up doing.Welcome to NAM where opinions are everywhere

 

Well, I am fully caught up in the game. I have the stock 6 speaker system in my 2007 MCS. I hate it so I figured I would "just upgrade the fronts". After listening to some very good Infinity, JL Audio and Alpine speakers matched with an amped and an unamped headunit, it became obvious that an amplifier was absolutely required for any decent improvement. Then, as long as I was having an amp put in, I figured I just as well should do the rears. Next week I'm having Diamond Audio S600S fronts, Diamond D392i rears and a Rockford Fosgate Punch 400-4 amplifier installed. After a healthy dose of buyers remorse, I'm excited as hell. Sure, I will only be playing Alisson Krauss, Nora Jones and the Beatles through it (maybe a little Black Eyed Peas) but once you hear a properly done system, you won't settle for "just doing the fronts" on a stock system.

poyzin

 

Bin there done that! So true.

 

Great discussion, to all of you. I hope I can build on others comments. Beginning with Black&Gold, I have three comments. First, as long as your stock HU powers your speakers (and not some remotely located stock amplifier to run wires from) there is no financial loss to have better speakers installed and see if you are satisfied with the sound that way. Second, I also agree with poyzin that your stock HU almost certainly cannot produce the type and quality of power needed to reproduce the type of dynamic and impactful sound that you and your new speakers crave. In truth, I have never met a person who updgraded to substantially higher quality speakers and who did not, at least ultimately, separately amplify them. As with my first post, however, I reiterate that I have no familiarity with the '07 HIFI system as I drive an '05. Third, while it is true that switching out the HU is the traditional first step in updgrading auto sound, this is not necessarily true today. Modern stock HU's are generally more powerful and of "slightly" better quality than they were just five years ago. Moreover, with the advent of MPS playback which is purely digital, the quality in playback is minimal between aftermarket and stock. With a CD or (heaven forbid) a cassette tape, the stock HU would have to convert signals from digital to analog and back to digital before the sound entered the audio stream. Poor internal componentry (relative to aftermarket gear) meant that a stock unit simply couldn't produce sound as well as aftermarket HUs. These are the reasons swapping out the stock HU was the traditional first step. However, MP3s don't require the stock HU to manipulate the signal at all; the signal essentially passes through. Thus, if you live for MP3s (or HD radio and the like), the traditional justifications for swapping the HU don't apply with as much force. For my part, I will be keeping my stock HU for the moment, given all my music comes from my ipod, and I have a nearly allergic reaction to alter my dash.
Additionally, I would not recommend separately amplifying stock speakers. Very few such spealkers can truly handle the power, and probably wouldn't sound that great if they could. I whole-heartedly agree with Robin Cassidy's implied perception: speakers are the most important single aspect of your sound system. If you can only afford to upgrade the speakers or the install and amplifier, I would definitely choose the former over the later.
Finally (and not be overly agreeable), I agree with BrandonH as well. When you endeavor to upgrade your autosound, it is important to have at least a rudimentary notion of where you want to end up. There are many considerations to weigh: type of music you prefer, obtrusiveness of the system in your car, appearance of final product, and the almighty budget. I good (read "trusted") installer will be more than happy to sit down with you and formulate a plan, even if that plan includes simply installing new speakers. Be wary, however: car audio can be truly addicting, and the fact that my car is still in several pieces is a testament to this truism.
I love the discussion on this thread; please keep it going. The MINI is a unique car with its own audio installation quirks. These types of discussions are critical to informing each other of the many lessons learned.

 

Theres some very good information here. it saved me the typical "use the search function!!!!!" response.


thanks NAM members. esp chillisport

 

I agree!! I got some reli good info here! and now i have a reli good sound system installed in Mona (the Mini) haha....Even though i didn't install it myself...i was able to know wut to buy and such =)

 

I think a lot of the installers push new head units because it's a high-profit item that's extremely quick and easy to install with little or no fabrication, and most install shops (especially the places like Circuit City/Best Buy) are all about getting as many cars in and out in as short a time as possible. I knew one installer back in the 80's that could do a "deck and four" (replacing the head unit and four interior speakers) on most cars in less than an hour. Needless to say, anything that required fabrication or custom work really put a dent in his profit margin.

Also, if the shop can sell you on a new head unit, they know that they'll probably be seeing you again for new speakers at some point, whereas if they just sell you new speakers, you'll likely find that the stock head unit is just fine.

Any stock head unit can make a perfectly good source for even a high-end audio system with a subwoofer, multiple amps, etcetera. If you look at the specifications for signal-to-noise, frequency response, and FM reception, aftermarket head units don't perform much better than factory ones. You *can* get a lot more features with aftermarket units (built-in satellite radio, iPod integration, better displays, etcetera), but from the standpoint of audio quality, your bigger gains will come from better speakers, the addition of a subwoofer, and more amplification.

 

The car has developped a buzz/rattle going on near my left ear. I can't tell if it's the auxillary visor brackets or the window seal. But it's very annoying. Enough so that I have canned any idea of doing any upgrades whatsoever to this car. Only 6,000 miles on the car. I live 40 minutes from the dealer and need to use the car daily and it's really a PITA to take it in for a rattle/buzz. If it rattles before any panels have ever been removed, I can only guess what it would be like after changing speakers, adding amps wireing harnesses etc.
Other irritants like the lack of one-touch up windows, integral garage door etc. and the incredibley difficult or expense ionvolved in adding or changing anything has me reading through all the car mags waiting ANY other car manufacturer that gets 40 MPG and has Xenon headlights. When that happens I'm outta here!

 

Speaking as an electrical engineer who owns the standard (non-hifi) system: same advice --

I spent $168 for the front-speaker-swap-only solution (JL Audio), and concur with Robin ... the best first few hundred bucks worth of "better sound" starts with some high-quality speakers; as long as you don't need ear-bleed volumes, the non-hifi 15W/ch into a high-efficency coax speaker-set will let you pump AC/DC OR a classical selection plenty loud and a lot more pleasantly than through the paper-cone OEM junk. (ps: my next $150 will be to replace the rear 6x9s; right now, the fader is set to full forward ... and "Shoot To Thrill" still sounds great)

 

basil 49, i just got my mini a couple of days ago and have been pretty disappointed with the non hifi sound. i didnt read the sticky but your comment got me to thinking. so you switched out your fronts only, and with that you are satisfied for now, and eventually switching out the rears? do you plan on putting in an amp at some time? I wanted a simple not too expensive way of upgrading the sound, but im not taking it to competitions or anything. so in your opinion, just switching out the fronts and rears to better quality speakers w/o a new amp is worthwhile?

 

Yep. Look at the "r56 speaker replacement" sticky; doors-only-speaker-swap took only a few hours and the difference was immediately obvious. I did one door at a time and tested each speaker as it went in, so could also compare the two; the OEM speakers are both buzzy and muddy, even at moderate volume. I'll switch out the rears when I have a full Saturday to do it -- little tougher install.
I don't plan to add an amp. I can get plenty-loud, good-quality sound with the non-hifi unit; response is near enough for me to full-frequency and sounds great with loud bassy rock, Ella Fitzgerald , OR classical organ music (often a real test for speakers and amps: lotsa pure-tones and opportunity for clipping.)

My suggestion is to read everything in the sticky, start with some good front speakers, and add an amp later if you feel shortchanged. I went with JL TR400-CXis and TR650-CXis in front (thanks, poolemac!), and I'll do the 6x9 rears some weekend.

 

I still don't quite get why people are installing both a set of 4" and 6.5" coaxials in the doors. Is it if one set of speakers is good, two must be better?

I installed a single set of 6.5" coaxials in the door and disconnected the OEM tweeters from the mid-door location.

I have enough mids and highs, what's lacking is bass which I knew would be the case. I can live with it for now. I'm finding with each new car I get I'm less in "need" to install a killer audio system.

Anyway my point to this post is to question the need of adding the 2nd set of 4" coaxials. I would think that the two sets of tweeters in each side would some how negate the sound of the highs.