1) I'm not a boy.

2) If you believe that learned adaptation changes the amount of power only at part throttle and around town driving, that would not be measurable and why would it matter? If you want more power, you push the accelerator pedal harder. If you have it all the way to the floor and you want more power, you mod your car to get more power.

Again, there is an assertion that the maximum power of various mods (ECU tuning in this case) will not be realized until the car is driven some distance (500 km has been mentioned). I assert that I have never seen any evidence to back up this claim, and in fact, have personally done experiments that showed the contrary.

 

Seasoned veteran, unless we all drive around all of the time in open loop mode [full throttle], it DOES matter how much power closed loop part throttle cruising offers. It is noticeable. That IS power, although, as you rightly say, NOT maximum power! That much of their assertion remains in question, yet so does much of your assertion. Evidence is not necessary to hypothesize based upon the experience at hand! Sorry to be all scientific and all!

 

 

There are no secrets.

If the stock ECU can adapt at WOT to make more power, there would be no point in buying chips or piggybacks.

If the tuner ECU can adapt at WOT to make more power, there would be no need for specific tuner files for specific build ups.

If the stock ECU adapts at WOT to some normal value(s), then it would simply adapt the piggybacks away.

There is a crude performance adaptation at part throttle called "Fuel Trim" and those with large injectors can see the results in their MPG meter.

 

Andy, I understand the ecu has an adaptive capability - taking in data from various sources and adjusting or compensationg accordingly within its program parameters. What I don't understand is what has been put forward here that upgrading the ecu requires miles to be driven so the ecu adapts to it. From my lame understanding when you upgrade the ecu that program is now the base and retains its adaptive capabilities but within the defined parameters (grant it new parameters). What i'm interpreting here is that the ecu is adapting to the upgrade which doesn't make sense to me.

 

fuel trim doesn't have infinite range, just like the injectors can't squirt unlimited fuel. Just look at the posts of those that have run into lean codes after running some mods. The fuel trim can't add enough fuel over the stock map, and voila, SES code.....

Matt

Edit, I also didn't say anything about adapting for more power, but I did say that all references but one I've read say that WOT is open loop. The reference that did mention looking at the O2 during WOT didn't say what it was doing with the information, and that I didn't know what happened in the Siemens ECU, because I haven't found it published anywhere, and Siemens wouldn't send me a manual when I asked....

 

So, I'm just wondering if there's anybody here with MTH header + stock catback on MCS ...anyone?

 

MINI2.COM has couple.

 

If i can just say....a MINI Cooper drove away from here with a difference in power delivery, two minutes from having a Tuner REMAP....

Who knows ??????

Si

 

 

One thing that people don't seem to understand is that the adaptation is not for power, but maintaining air/fuel in spite of poor injector performance, clogged fuel filters, low battery voltage, unmetered air (air leaks), etc...

The only "adaptation" that will help performance is ignition timing and that's not realy an adaption, as it is always being pushed to the limit. In the case of ignition you will notice power increases with increased octaine or cooler engine temps

As for the infinite range of adaptations, you will probably notice power loss from lower volumetric efficiency before your adaptations reach their limmit.

Also, the lean codes may be related to stock DME programming parameters that affect stock cars as well.

For the first time I completely agree with andy's view. I am too becoming less tolerant of word vomit. If not for the frustration, then for the complete lack of integrity it brings to forum.

 

What are we talking about here?

 

Ok,In that case.... to those who are having the MTH header and stock cat back, any review or soundclip??

 

I don't think anybody on NAM is running that setup. You might go over to Mini2.com. More of their members are running the MTH header. They're also doing a dyno day on the 11th so you can probably ask them to do soundclips then also.

 

Why the confused look ?

I was simply saying, all this talk about running files in and ECU resets (which you cant do through the speedo...end of) , well a customer went away and phoned me straight away saying he noticed instantly his new mth tuner file.

Customers still say the file improves the more its driven.

 

I wonder why, most NAM people like to do the header and crazy mods!

 

Headers have historically been an easy way to add hp/tq to any car. As to crazy mods , you would have to be more specific on tehmods and what you percieve to be crazy about them.

 

I just switch from standard to tuner file, I noticed It does improve the more its driven. I only have 90 miles with it and still waiting to redline it but the weather has been terrible

 

Thats good news Eastsidemini. Loving the sig too

 

I say, let the graphs from our Dutch dyno day speak for themselves, I have little to add other then that MTH blames it on the dyno we used, but how about the comparison to stock and JCW then? All dyno's done within 3 hours on the same dyno stand.
MCS Power comparison graphs
MCS Torque comparison graphs
MC Power comparison graphs
MC Torque comparison graphs

 

Thanks for posting the dyno graphs. As with any dyno plots it is best to focus on the deltas rather than the absolute values. What did MTH blame on the dyno, the absolute gains, or the hp/tq compared to the other setups?

edit: I just realized these comparisons are not from the same car with a base line dyno. Is this true? If so, I would have to say that due the historical variation between power seen on stock minis, these dyno plots don't really tell us much. Could you clarify how many cars were used for this test? I fear you may be misleading people with this kind of information.

 

Looking at the dyno chart carefully 2 thinks make me wonder:

1.With all the mods on the MCS, MCSc is still faster???
2. what does "corrected for 22% drivetrain loss? What is corrected? the final numbers?

Explanations please

 

Wow, a non pulley-car with a MTH stage 1 and a works exhaust has more torque than a pulley-car. That's crazy.

[edit] A pulley adds 1NM of torque?

Are these care all from the similar years? '05-'06? or '02-'04?

All your base are belong to TEAM CRAPTASTIC.

 

^^^^^^ that is not crazy, either the MCS w/pulley has problems or not tuned right, or that dyno is full of it

 

Yeah, I wonder too..